Duke vs. UChicago?

<p>Take from it what you will, but Duke is also marginally more selective, and has greater name recognition by virtue of its outstanding basketball program and groundbreaking medical research.</p>

<p>I visited the U. of Chicago a couple days ago and it was a very pleasant experience. The campus and the adjacent hospital complex certainly felt safe. I walked from a subway station from the west through the adjacent City park to the campus. To the west of that park, I saw many vacant areas, but there had clearly been a major effort to clean them up to get them ready for new development. </p>

<p>On the way back from the University to Center City, I took a city bus. I hesitate to even mention that I was the only white person on the crowded bus, because that was not an issue. </p>

<p>There were many recently built high rise apartment buildings in parts of South Chicago that were 10 or 20 blocks from Center City. Overall, it was the cleanest big city I have seen. </p>

<p>I didn’t see anything or anyone that made me uncomfortable. Now, about my visit two days later to downtown Detroit, that was a different matter …</p>

<p>i’m not affiliated with either institution but chicago grads (grad schools incl) have held more CEO/CFO positions in wall street outside of harvard. corzine, dougan, you name it. </p>

<p>duke and chicago are equally as selective. yes, chicago had a reputation which only attracted super nerds in the past but that’s changing. judging by chicago’s increased awareness, chicago will probably take a few pct pts lead in admit rate in the coming years. and really, selectivity as measured by admit rate is pointless in my opinion. rather, i’m more keen on what sort of accolades the students are achieving and uchicago wins in these terms.</p>

<p>outstanding bball program and medical research aside, chicago is the school that is the namesake for the very foundation of modern day capitalism. chicago school of economics and sociology. this school has impacted society in such a way duke could only dream of.</p>

<p>i rest my case…</p>

<p>Duke may or may not be a leading supplier of WS talent but it certainly is NOT a major supplier of Fortune 500 ceos. But neither is Chicago.</p>

<p>[Where</a> the Fortune 500 CEOs Went to College - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/education/articles/2011/01/03/where-the-fortune-500-ceos-went-to-college]Where”>http://www.usnews.com/education/articles/2011/01/03/where-the-fortune-500-ceos-went-to-college)</p>

<p>if you want a .0001% chance of becoming a ceo, go to harvard or get an mba.</p>

<p>I do not have any up to date data to substantiate my claims but anecdotal evidence would have me believe that Duke comfortably beats UChicago in cross admit battles. I think there is a website called Parchment.com which estimates cross admit outcomes I don’t know how credible it is but it says that Duke wins two thirds of its cross admits against Chicago. I for one consider this to be a more or less accurate estimate.</p>

<p>happyman, popularity is not always an indication of quality. Just because high schools prefer Duke to Chicago does not make it better. Not many students would rather choose “where fun comes to die” over a basketball powerhouse!</p>

<p>Academically, both are excellent and are held in equal esteem both in academe and in inustry.</p>

<p>Here’s a “revealed preference” study (similar to the “cross-admit” concept) that shows Duke slightly ahead of Chicago: [A</a> Revealed Preference Ranking of U.S. Colleges and Universities](<a href=“http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/paper.cfm?paperID=1298]A”>http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/paper.cfm?paperID=1298)</p>

<p>On the other hand, if you’re interested in “groundbreaking research”, you could compare the Nobel count (Chicago’s 87 v. Duke’s 10), which sorta kinda suggests breadth and depth of achievement in this area. The presence of Nobel laureates on campus might help attract money and elevate department quality somewhat. Otherwise, it’s really not a very good metric to help you choose between peer schools, since your chances of being taught by a prize-winner (let alone winning one yourself) are slim-to-none wherever you go. </p>

<p>Per capita PhD production may be a little more relevant, since the numbers are much larger and do measure a kind of student performance outcome. The NSF in 2008 reported on the number of S&E PhDs produced per hundred graduates of US colleges & universities. Chicago came out #7 (behind Caltech, MIT, and several LACs) even though it has no engineering programs (yet). Duke was #30.
<a href=“http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf08311/nsf08311.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf08311/nsf08311.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Selectivity? Duke has slightly lower admit rates. Chicago nevertheless has slightly higher average scores.</p>

<p>One can compare all sorts of metrics to show one of these schools or the other as more desirable on paper, depending on what you want emphasize. The two are really close enough in quality, but different enough in style & atmosphere, that it ought to come down to “fit”. Personally, on a “fit” basis, I would not even be comparing these 2 schools … but if you are, and if you’re admitted to both, go to the one that’s cheaper after aid or to the one that clicks after overnight visits.</p>

<p>isn’t duke more similar to northwestern?</p>

<p>

No, Chicago and Duke are more prestigious than Northwestern. In terms of social atmosphere though, yes Northwestern is probably the most similar private school to Duke in terms of the collective personality of the student body.</p>

<p>

Is this what you’re referring to?</p>

<p>[College</a> Cross-Admit Comparison: Duke University vs University of Chicago | Parchment - College admissions predictions.](<a href=“Compare Colleges: Side-by-side college comparisons | Parchment - College admissions predictions.”>Compare Colleges: Side-by-side college comparisons | Parchment - College admissions predictions.)</p>

<p>

Huh? Doesn’t Duke have more Rhodes Scholars than any schools besides Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Stanford in the last 25 years? I thought I read or heard that somewhere.</p>

<p>At any rate, most students at either school don’t win prestigious fellowships. A far higher number will want to go to medical school and Duke simply dominates Chicago on that front. My cousin is trying to decide where to go for premed and she’s looking at a number of places including these two schools and Chicago’s academic reputation and rigor doesn’t seem to be respected by medical school admissions officers.</p>

<p>Here are some examples to prove my point:</p>

<p>Wash U Med School (1995-2011): [Who</a> Chooses WU](<a href=“http://medadmissions.wustl.edu/HowtoApply/selectionprocess/Pages/WhoChoosesWU.aspx]Who”>http://medadmissions.wustl.edu/HowtoApply/selectionprocess/Pages/WhoChoosesWU.aspx)
Duke: 79
Chicago: 20</p>

<p>Vanderbilt Med School (2006-2010): <a href=“https://medschool.vanderbilt.edu/admissions/undergraduate-schools-represented[/url]”>https://medschool.vanderbilt.edu/admissions/undergraduate-schools-represented&lt;/a&gt;
Duke: 15
Chicago: 3</p>

<p>Case Western Med School 2010 Entering Class:
<a href=“http://casemed.case.edu/admissions/images/Entering%20Class%20of%202010%20-%20For%20Communications.pdf[/url]”>http://casemed.case.edu/admissions/images/Entering%20Class%20of%202010%20-%20For%20Communications.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
Duke: 8
University of Chicago: 1 or less</p>

<p>Ohio State Medical School Class of 2011:
<a href=“http://medicine.osu.edu/students/admissions/Documents/classprofile.pdf[/url]”>http://medicine.osu.edu/students/admissions/Documents/classprofile.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
Duke: 12
Chicago: 1</p>

<p>The difference is absolutely staggering. What are places like Hopkins and Duke doing right that Chicago isn’t? I expect better for a top 5 American university like the University of Chicago. We can talk about departmental rankings all day but ultimately, an undergraduate education offered at a school is validated by the professional, graduate and job placement of its graduates and Chicago seems to trail Duke on that front considerably in some areas.</p>

<p>why compare medical schools?</p>

<p>maybe, duke has a lot more pre med people than uchicago</p>

<p>" In terms of social atmosphere though, yes Northwestern is probably the most similar private school to Duke in terms of the collective personality of the student body.’</p>

<p>yes, that was what i meant to say</p>

<p>“No, Chicago and Duke are more prestigious than Northwestern”</p>

<p>No. Chicago is more prestigious than Duke and Northwestern.</p>

<p>

Uh huh, is that why Duke enrolls more National Merit Scholars than Chicago or NU?</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nationalmerit.org/annual_report.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nationalmerit.org/annual_report.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Duke: 101
Chicago: 65
Northwestern: 61</p>

<p>Clearly a bunch of highly educated parents disagree with you on account of where they choose to send their kid.:D</p>

<p>number of national merit scholars determines prestige???</p>

<p>you need to check the numbers of NMS at some “not so prestgious colleges”</p>

<p>

The RP study is well over 10 years old now. Furthermore, it’s not actual cross-admit data; it’s a statistical model that predicts rates based on a tiny number of students (3000 total). The rare cross-admit data that has been released by colleges (most notably Stanford) shows that RP data is highly unreliable. While the RP study, like the WSJ feeder survey, has been fodder for discussion ever since the old forum, both have long since ceased to be valuable, if indeed they ever were. </p>

<p>

Unlike Duke, Chicago gives out NMF scholarships. If I remember correctly, a student cannot receive both a national and college-sponsored NMF scholarship. Chicago, it should be noted, gives out over 200 National Merit scholarships. </p>

<p>

Quite irrelevant for the thread at hand. The OP is interested in public policy and econ and shows no interest in medical school. In any case, the fact that Duke has almost exactly twice as many pre-meds as Chicago is, in my opinion, a decided negative rather than an advantage. Admittedly, I have never been fond of them. </p>

<p>

Eh, who cares? Only an idiot chooses a college based on prestige. </p>

<p>Most of the top universities are wholly different in feel from one another. Focusing on something like admit rates or the number of NM scholars as a difference between them is like having to analyze the differences between a poison dart frog and a banana and focusing on their ever so slightly different shades of yellow. There are more significant differences between the two. :rolleyes:</p>

<p>I was mulling this very thing over this morning while proctoring an exam. There are many, many things that make my graduate university wholly different from my undergraduate one, but most of the things so vehemently discussed on this forum - subject rankings, peer assessment, prestige, admit rates, etc. - have very little to do with them.</p>

<p>^ All very sensible.</p>

<p>According to the NM pamphlet linked in post 33, Chicago enrolled 268 National Merit Scholars in 2010, NU 227. These included 203 college-sponsored scholarship recipients at Chicago and 166 at NU, which goldenboy has deducted from the totals. Duke does not sponsor NM scholarships. Regardless of the color of money they receive, these are all National Merit Scholars.</p>

<p>The medical school numbers above are fairly meaningless without the application numbers. You cannot assume that equal numbers of students at all colleges are interested in these medical schools, or med school in general, or any other post-graduate path. Besides, medical and law school admission is relatively unaffected by where you choose to attend college. It seems to be mostly about GPA and test scores (though grade inflation/deflation can come into play).</p>

<p>As for the Rhodes scholarships, the historic total is Chicago 46 v. Duke 39. These numbers are very close. It’s just not a meaningful discriminator since we’re only talking about 2 or 3 students per school in a good year.</p>

<p>Again, see what shakes out with admission and aid. Choose based on cost or whichever one clicks after overnight visits.</p>

<p>I made a mistake in my previous statement. Chicago and Northwestern are both more prestigious than Duke. :-)</p>

<p>Chicago has significantly higher SAT scores than Duke and Stanford, and Chicago’s average 2400 scores are even higher than MIT’s. It enrolls more National Merit Scholars than any other university in the United States.</p>

<p>The website claiming that 2/3 of Duke/Chicago cross-admits pick Duke is based upon online statistics and is probably not that accurate. If online polls were reliable, then Ron Paul would have won the last 3 US elections.</p>

<p>But even if Duke were to win its cross-admit battles with Chicago, and I don’t think it does, then Chicago is clearly succeeding in winning the better students. Who cares if you win 2/3 of the cross-admits when you won the BOTTOM 2/3 and the TOP 1/3 decides to go to Chicago? Chicago won 3 Rhodes scholars last year, tied with Harvard and Stanford for 1st in the nation, and Chicago was top 5 in the nation last year for the number of Fulbrights won. I think that these statistics by themselves, in addition to Chicago’s obviously superior SAT scores, serve as an indication that Chicago is getting the best students.</p>

<p>Chicago is the better and more prestigious school, and I don’t think it’s really much of a contest either. The only thing that Duke has going for it is a low acceptance rate (which will likely be surpassed by Chicago this year anyway), which was only gained by getting 100% yield through ED. Even with ED, though, its yield is low, suggesting that it’s losing a lot of RD students in cross-admit battles. Duke’s overall yield a few years ago was only 2% higher than Chicago’s even considering the ED difference, and last year, Chicago’s was almost certainly higher. This coming year, it won’t even be a contest.</p>

<p>Duke>UChicago>Northwestern>>>Michigan</p>

<p>I agree with Alexandre’s post on the previous page. All in all they are both great schools and I would have to give the edge to Chicago for its graduate programs, however, Duke is undeniably more prestigious for its undergraduate program, at least to my mind. I say this with as much respect and humility as possible but a lot of you seem to have a strong bias against Duke, I can only speculate as to how such a bias came about, but either way I think there is a certain amount of consensus that a student should choose where to attend based solely on fit and that perceived differences in prestige should not be a criteria for selecting one college over the other.</p>