Hello I am going into my senior year and I’m debating applying to UPenn or Duke ED. I know both are very competitive schools and are very difficult to get into, but I think I have a slightly better shot at Penn because my dad went there so I have legacy. I hear a lot about UPenn, especially Wharton, having very cutthroat competitive academics. I really want a college that is very good academically but not so competitive that people don’t want to collaborate to mess up a curve and such. I got the impression that Duke was a little more slow paced and less competitive, but at such great schools there is obviously going to be competition. Does anyone know if these rumors of the fiercely competitive academics at UPenn are accurate or are they very overemphasized? If I apply I’m going to the college of arts of sciences by the way.
No one?
If you will be a biology major or pre-med, you may find the frosh/soph biology major and pre-med courses at any school to have a lot of competitive and possibly cutthroat students trying to get a medical-school-worthy GPA.
CAS gpa average is about 3.4. Students are generally cooperative and helpful, but in a large school there are always exceptions. I think the level of competition depends on the gpa you are targeting. If you will only be happy with a 3.9 or better, it will be tough. If you are happy with a 3.0, it should be fairly easy.
@ucbalumnus I feared that. Good to know.
@Much2learn If I get into one of these top schools I will be extremely happy and make sure to work hard, but I’m not gonna kill myself to get a nearly perfect GPA.
@streetking18 “If I get into one of these top schools I will be extremely happy and make sure to work hard, but I’m not gonna kill myself to get a nearly perfect GPA.”
That is a healthy attitude. Students who define themselves by their perfect gpas seem to have the most difficult adjustment. The average student had a 3.91 gpa, so adjusting to a 3.4 average in CAS or a 3.2 average in SEAS can be a real mental adjustment if a student needs to feel uniquely special.
In my opinion, the best approach for the average student (with certain exceptions like pre-med) is to work to maintain an average gpa and then get involved in as many experiences as you can. Get a board position in a club, become a research assistant, set up your linked- in and work on getting an internship, consider rushing, get to know your professors, participate in a hackathon, see lots of guest speakers, attend an opera, get as many experiences as you can. The opportunities are almost endless.
Regarding cutthroat behavior, Penn students understand that relationships matter, and are known for being the most sociable among the Ivies. Students tend to be cooperative, and cutthroat behavior is frowned upon and can definitely hurt a student socially.
Having said that, this is Penn. You will quickly learn that the idea that you can attend any public school and get the same education is absurd. The amount of work assigned will be significantly beyond what the vast majority of public universities will assign. The engineering and science students may be averaging 40+ hours of homework per week. The workload that my D does every week is simply beyond the workload that I ever did at a top 100 public university. It is a very work hard, play hard sort of place.
Having said that, she absolutely loves it and was very excited for classes to begin this week. This is the type of environment that she loves. Work like crazy with extraordinary peers, have a party to blow off steam, repeat.
I suspect you will find a similar “work hard, play hard” culture at Duke to a large extent.
Students at both Penn and Duke are known for being socially active – they tend to enjoy having a good time.
That requires time. So obviously the academics are not so cutthroat that students leave themselves with little time for fun.
You should have fun – many people call the college years the most fun years of their lives. You can do well in school – school should come first; if a paper is due on Friday and you are on page 2, you are going to be finishing that paper on Thursday night in lieu of the poetry competition at the nearby pub – and still have plenty of fun. So I think you are approaching this intelligently.
Between Penn and Duke… in the sciences… they both have good quality. So pick based on fit and finances.
Very similar schools. However, I’d argue that Duke has a stronger undergraduate focus.
@NerdyChica Good to know.
@NerdyChica @prezbucky @renaissancedad @Much2learn @ucbalumnus does anyone know how much legacy helps at UPenn? my dad went there.
The standard line of thought is that legacy is only a factor for Penn ED, but is a fairly significant one. Penn has admitted 25% and 24% of all ED applicants the past 2 years (about the same as Duke). I’ve heard estimates for legacy ED applicants as high as 40-45%.
Significantly different environs, people, weather, and environment. Penn and surrounding areas are pretty dang liberal. Duke, not so much.
I have a friend who went to both, and was really upset about the environs of Duke. She felt fine in Philly, but at Duke she met with discrimination and many things that made her uncomfortable.
So my point is, the schools are essentially equivalent, so factors such as every day life beyond the academics would more likely be drivers.
Have you compared the course materials and exams between the various different schools you are referring to here?
Both schools are full of students who are very smart and accustomed to being at the top and don’t intend on being in the bottom half of the class. For the most part they won’t be cutthroat, and will be generally collaborative, but there will be plenty of healthy competition.