<p>Hi, I'm concerned about Duke's "relatively weak" music department as well as their pre-business preparation as a potential freshman .. who is choosing between NW and Duke (NW is known for its music, as well as business)..</p>
<p>if I'm thinking of a major in economics (to take that pre-business path), and a minor in music education/music performance.. which school would be a better fit, and why?</p>
<p>I've already visited Duke, and am visiting NW this weekend.. hopefully that would help.</p>
<p>any input would be appreciated.. (as long as it's credible ;) )</p>
<p>Well,all the well-known companies recruit heavily from Duke, so I think that would tell you about thier pre-business preparation ;)</p>
<p>Though I'm not a music minor/major and dont know anybody else who is doing econ and music, I would say that Duke highly encourages its students to double major and to take classes from other fields. Duke lays a very big focus on doing "interdisciplinary" stuff.So you would not have any problem combining your 2 (or more) interests at Duke.</p>
<p>concerning pre-business - Duke has a very strong reputation. Economics/poly sci programs here have a lot of resources and respected faculty. I see a lot of major companies from all over the U.S. come here to recruit for jobs and internships. Sorry I can't be more specific - maybe someone who is prebusiness or knows a lot about this can elaborate?</p>
<p>Regarding music, what instrument do you play? Duke is definitely not a conservatory but I feel that the music department here is really outstanding - from the level of student musicianship that I see to the reputation of the faculty in the department. I know a few people who are music majors (I was also recruited to their music program but decided to pursue my other interests more strongly). I've attended many of the department's sponsored events - including the Duke Orchestra, faculty performances, operas, etc. and I really see it as a great department overall. The facilities are also quite nice: the Biddle Music Bldg. has grand pianos in every practice room and nice performance spaces are found all around campus (Nelson Music room in East Duke Hall, Baldwin Auditorium, etc.) Additionally, there are pianos in every commons room on East campus, as well as arts themed dorms on both East and West campuses that tailor to musically and artistically oriented students.</p>
<p>Duke has a markets and management certificate program for people interested in business. It's like a minor, but they call it a certificate because classes are in different departments. Many people I know say that is the best pre-business preparation at Duke. </p>
<p>another question.. how much does pre-business route matter at an undergrad level (if I'm considering either NU or Duke undergrad).. if i'm to pursue a b-school for grad? i konw that NU has a stronger b-school, but im not sure to what extent that effects the undergraduate education..</p>
<p>and also what i'm concerned about is the Duke vs NU music experience I guess.. I know Duke isn't the greatest at music? or is that just a biased opinion... if compared to the NU's nationally recognized music program, how far behind is Duke? </p>
<p>I'm confused betwen Duke vs. NU right now I guess bc my plan is to pursue an econ major/music minor (or possibly double major in those, whatever works) as an undergrad, and hopefully go onto b-school for grad... (even tho these plans are not SET in stone..).. and I visited Duke and loved it, and also bc I know Duke is more selective/well-rounded in academics in case I decided to change the path.. but I know that NU is "stronger" in that econ/music area. maybe?</p>
<p>The strength of Duke's music program compared to NU's is your opportunities. That is to say, music majors don't get preferential treatment for ensembles, lessons, classes, etc. However, if you want to compare overall programs, of course NU is going to have a stronger program. Music majors = people who practice for hours and hours every day. At Duke, we'll be happy if we get a practice sesh or two in during the week. That being said, we still make quality music. I'm speaking as a trumpet in the orchestra. Also, our conductor is also incredible. He's so sought after that he even conducted CIM's spring opera performance this year, one that a friend of mine was playing in! Basically, if you know that you as a music minor would never be able to put in the same hours as a major, and that you as a music minor wouldn't be able to actually use of all the "advantages" that NU has, then compare what you could do at Duke with what you actually could do at NU. That is, if I'm not completely wrong about the major/minor thing. Perhaps it's just major/non-major.</p>
<p>Duke academics are honestly stronger. Plus, econ here is quite competitive and will more than set you up for a high quality internship/job. Recruiters from all the top firms are at Duke in the fall, evidence that Duke grads are highly sought after in the market. So many people I know have great internships set up for the summer - the resources for internships and job placement are incredible.</p>
<p>If you love Duke better than NU, you should pick Duke. The benefit of "fit" should outweigh any difference in the undergrad econ program which is likely minor. </p>
<p>That said, NU's econ is considered a top-10 program (couple rankings even put it within top-5). The rankings are often really graduate rankings and don't necessarily translate to better undergrad program. But the fact that NU shows up on the lists of "core schools" (undergrad) for top-consulting/i-banking firms more often than even couple Ivies and that the NU team has won College Fed Challenge (beating UChicago in the midwest regional before winning the national) twice in row seems to indicate the undergrad program is very good. NU, like Duke, has a business certificate program. But NU also has Learning and Organizational Change (LOC) major at their SESP and management sciences department in their engineering school. The latter is a top-ranked dept. I knew quite a few people that double-majored in LOC and econ and couple switched to LOC because it's less competitive. The intergrated marketing communcation department at Medill has two courses in advertisting and direct marketing available to undergrads. There's also mathematical method for social sciences (mmss) program that compliments econ nicely. So, even there may not be any difference in the undergra econ program, I think NU has more breath/depth in the "pre-business" area.</p>
<p>Duke's pre-business is very strong, the strongest I have seen at any top non-business program. </p>
<p>The econ department offers more actual finance courses than any liberal arts program I have seen except Princeton, where you can earn a finance certificate. If you take the finance courses offered by the econ department, the accounting courses in the econ department, and the markets certificate program (which offers the softer business school type courses), you are pretty close to what you would get as an undergrad business major while still getting a world class liberal arts degree. NU does not have this depth.</p>
<p>The clause he had there was important - given that we don't have an actual business major, we have an astonishingly strong pre-business ability.</p>
<p>Duke does have great pre-business ability; I should hope so, at least.</p>
<p>So many Duke alums are well established at strong ibanking and financial firms, and are very willing to come to campus to recruit. Here is a perk of Duke: on-campus interviewing/recruiting. Firms like Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan do not recruit at all college campuses, for coveted internships they only recruit on 5 campuses (didn't say which 5, but this means that they're not covering the entire ivy league), and Duke is ALWAYS one of these campuses. Duke students also frequently end up in pre-business 'summer camps' like the one at Dartmouth's business school.</p>
<p>While a lot of these pre-business types are economics majors, they're also sociology majors (look at all the business related courses), psych majors, PPS majors, etc. I'm an English major pursing a Markets & Management certificate and I still label myself as pre-business.</p>
<p>I got that info when I went through on campus interviews.
Now would you like to tell me whether the positions you're talking about (the actual title and job description) are for general summer analysts that any person with an internet connection can apply for? Or are you talking about more coveted internships (especially those post-sophomore year) that they only make available through recruiting? Because if it's the latter, then yes, they do only do it on five college campuses. Or at least when I went through my interviews I was told that. Maybe my JP Morgan interviewer lied to me.
Are you also talking about working in the main Manhattan office or smaller subsidiary offices in other cities? Duke primarily recruits for Manhattan offices, which is also a highly competitive city for internships (as well as these companies' main office) While being a JP Morgan intern in Chicago (as the link you showed me is for) is still impressive because JP Morgan is JP Morgan no matter how you slice it... there are probably more students vying for a NYC internship. (That's more something I've seen here... no matter where people are from, they'd rather pay for housing in NYC and intern there than intern anywhere else-- if they're going for a financial internship)</p>
<p>I am talking about summer intern interviews conducted on campus on specific dates for those schools, not just info sessions nor application through internet. The link I showed you specificly says intern for juniors/seniors. In fact, 3 people from the same MMSS graduating class of 2005 went to do internship for JP Morgan before they graduate (and that's just MMSS, not counting other majors).</p>
<p>Maybe NYC positions are more competitive like you said, but I am just trying to say the company as a whole recruit interns on more than 5 campuses. It really doesn't make any sense that three of the HYP/Wharton/Chicago/MIT would be left out while Duke would be included. No offense, but I don't see any reason why Duke would be more preferred than any of the above. Even the stingy McKinsey actively recruit on more than 5 campuses.</p>
<p>And I'm saying, if you read my post, that there are certain positions that the company makes available to only five campuses. My interviewer told me five including Duke, but never told me what the other four were.
The internships that these companies interview on upwards of 20 campus are the same internship that one could apply for via the internet, fyi. It's how students at American U intern at JP Morgan.</p>
<p>You mean they have some kind of advance position for student intern? That's bizarrd and the strangest thing I've ever heard. What position were you interviewing for?</p>
<p>I'm another current Duke student (Econ and Chinese major with a desire to be involved in international business after graduation), and Duke students don't seem to have any problem getting great jobs or internships. Many students do internships in New York for the summer after junior year and are offered jobs at the end of the summer following graduation. As far as companies that Duke students go and work for, you often see Goldman Sachs, Credit Suisse, McKinsey, Bain and Company, UBS, etc. Also, the CIA recruits from Duke for those who want to be secret agents.</p>
<p>I got into both Duke and Northwestern last year, and for me, Duke was definitely the right choice. But really, just choose the school that fits you best - both Duke and NW are great schools.</p>
<p>Sam Lee -you aren't thinking about this in the right way. Lazard is a prestigious firm but a very small player. The body count that they hire is much much smaller that GS, JPM etc. I wouldn't put a lot of stock on their list. The difference is big. Lazard might hire one per campus - literally. When GS comes to Duke they hire like 25 people.</p>
<p>Different things make schools popular with recruiters. It isn't just academics. Duke students are sought out by Wall St recruiters because they are in general getting a more a balanced college experience with a real social element. That is hugely important. Recruiters aren't just looking for the smartest kids - they have to be able to relate to people and be fun to be with. Other supposedly "better" schools have a much higher nerd count with way liberal student bodies that are frankly not good recruiting material. Duke is an intensely pre-professional campus. Recruiters love that.</p>
<p>Sam Lee, starbucksguy is really looking at this in the right way. Being the "best" school on a US News & World Report does not instantly translate to the BEST school to then work in finance. It also does not make the most sense to recruit at only the HYPs of the world and leave out Duke.</p>
<p>starbucksguy is 100% correct when he says that different things make schools popular with recruiters. For all of the reasons he listed and more, make Duke a recruiter's dream. And Sam Lee, it's a funny thing what goes through the head of those hiring people and looking through resumes. My dad works at GS in NYC and he tells me that he regularly glosses over resumes from Wharton, Princeton, Harvard, etc. because he hasn't been impressed with the person attached to the fancy name. They don't work well with others-- they get too intense and shut everyone else out of their little bubble. He tells me how great Duke, NW, Gtown, etc. students are. </p>
<p>I mean, maybe there's just Duke alums in high places and they're giving support to their alma mater... you never know. But everyone comes to Duke.</p>