Hear, hear.
(but wait–more info on Schaeffer being a “crooked mercenary”?)
One wonders if SAT cheating would be more prevalent in the US if the CB recycled tests in the US, too. Would we suddenly see a spike in registrations in Hawaii & Alaska?
@marvin100 “How did passing on the rumor hurt people?”
Are you sure you want to ask that question? God I hope you are baiting.
I’ll give you a clue: me. Completely pathetic. Couldn’t cheat even if I wanted to, but still be suspected of cheating.
Look at this “About half a dozen counselors and students in South Korea and elsewhere in Asia have said that some test prep companies have learned about test items”.
Know the feeling when you didn’t do something, but people “ru-fucking-mored” that I did that shit?
@xiggi
I largely agree with your post above, but my sense is that the November 2014 international test was not a “recycled test,” and yet the Strauss-Schaeffer duo put forth two separate articles alleging cheating on that test and (cluelessly) calling on ETS to abandon its practice of reusing tests.
How exactly can ETS win?
On the particular date now under discussion–i.e., January 2015–ETS apparently outsmarted the Koreans and then surprised a large number of the Chinese in Hong Kong and Singapore with an entirely different form–yet Strauss and Schaeffer had reported cheating before the test even took place.
Again, how can ETS win?
Schaeffer is advocating an end to recycled tests because he knows it’s impossible (a U.S. Saturday version, a U.S. Sunday version, and at least one international version, six or seven times a year?), and he simply wants to destroy the SAT and the entire standardized testing industry with it.
What exactly are you looking for?
If anything does come of all of this, I suspect it will simply be far fewer testing opportunities for students in Asia. The “stop using recycled tests” thing just isn’t going to happen. (And it won’t really matter if it does, because Strauss-Schaeffer will report the cheating before it happens, even if it doesn’t happen.)
@marvin100
re: “How did passing on the rumor hurt people?”
Well, you can read some of the comments below the Strauss-Schaeffer articles–a lot of generalized anti-Asian sentiment there.
In general, however, I agree with your implication. The only people the rumor really hurt are Valerie Strauss and Bob Schaeffer, who now look like dunces (Strauss) and frauds (Schaeffer). If I had a higher opinion of the people at ETS, I might almost wonder whether they had started the June 2014 rumor themselves just to watch their various tormenters–the cheaters and the Strauss-Schaeffer duo–dig their own graves.
re: “Passing on a rumor–and directly identifying it as a rumor is not the same as ‘lying.’”
I know this wasn’t addressed to me, but I think it should be assumed that Schaeffer lied about having received a copy of the June 2014 U.S. test in advance of last Saturday’s test (How would he even know what test it was? He knows nothing). It’s just too perfect and too much in line with his past claims, none of which have ever been proven.
I am not sure why harping about Strauss or Schaeffer is needed. They are idiots with the sole difference that Strauss does not have the ulterior motives of a rat like Schaeffer. Again, the reporting on academic (or testing) issues typically shines by its shallowness. They amount to sound bites on complex issues and hardly please anyone.
The articles – based on poor foundations or not-- do not hurt anyone more than the cycles of previous cheating have already done. I have sympathy for the students who feel slighted by accusations of cheating when they play by the rules. I can understand their frustration as it does not get better and will not until the new SAT is unveiled.
I also do not understand the need to “challenge” Marvin and his posts. Are you not aware that he is solidly in the camp of the people who WANT a higher integrity of the test, and believes that playing by the rules should be the only way?
For the record, my “solution” to the problem created by the haphazard release of the older test is different. I think that EVERY test should have to be release a la PSAT. If the price of this is fewer administration, so be it! Unfortunately, the current mode at TCB is to, in fact, multiply the number of additional testing days through Sunday and Wednesday administrations that are making the entire process a joke when the Saturday test reappears later than week, and at times with extended time.
All in all, and many will not like this, but the better solution would be to have an extended SAT that replaces the AP boondoggle in May (one time SAT per year with regional versions) and punt the AP testing to CAT centers a la GRE.
@napat98 - “How can the ETS win?”
How can it lose? Its revenue is colossal. Its executives are very well paid.
@xiggi - thanks. I appreciate your support. You are correct that I am adamantly in favor of a higher integrity of the test and I absolutely believe “playing by the rules” should be the only way. I’m also vehemently pro-South Korea. I’m a permanent resident and have lived here for over a decade, helping hundreds of students try to reach their goals without cheating year in and year out.
One reason I’m so strongly in favor of calling attention to cheating and the test-recycling that leaves the door open for cheating to happen is that I hope (perhaps naively) that pressure and publicity might compel ETS to cease the recycling practice once the revised 2016 exam is in use. I’m not naive enough to believe ETS will invest any money in making new versions of the existing test for international use, of course, but I’m convinced that ETS is only able to get away with recycling tests (and thereby making possible the most egregious forms of cheating) because few Americans are aware of it and international news and criticism don’t affect its bottom line.
I’d also add that I love your proposed solution, @xiggi.
@dokisame - How has that hurt you? I mean, I understand why you’re upset, but I’m upset too. We’re all upset. That’s not harm, though.
This has been going on for years–the cheaters harm innocent students by getting tests canceled and scores delayed. Have your tests been canceled or scores delayed because of rumors? No, and they won’t be unless actual cheating is identified, in which case you won’t be able to blame the rumors because they will have been justified. So blame the cheaters.
@xiggi
@marvin100
I’m not trying to challenge anybody, much less suggest that either of you supports cheating. On the contrary, I reply to your posts because they are the most polite, most articulate, best informed, etc.
That said, @marvin100 sometimes has a way of distorting other people’s words in his replies. In a previous post, for example, I wrote, “How can ETS win?” In context, my meaning was clear: no matter what steps ETS has taken recently–even when it has used brand new tests and multiple forms on the same day–it has always been faulted for not doing quite the right thing. @marvin100 quoted me a few posts up, but he replied as if I had been making some inane point about revenue.
@napat98 - I’m sorry–my intention was not to distort your words but rather to show that ETS is winning, that it’s not the victim here. My apologies.
(As for “how can ETS win?”, well, of course ETS can’t wipe out all cheating, and ETS will never be free of criticism, but I believe recycling tests leaves open the single most egregious form of cheating. If ETS stops recycling exams, it will have won with me, at least.)
I’ll also add that I don’t care about Schaeffer’s anti-testing position and I don’t share it.
And the dishonest advocacy continues:
Schaeffer now claims that FairTest received copies of the October 2012 international and June 2014 international tests before the January 24 test date, on which those two old tests were reused.
Yet he made no mention of those two tests before the January 2015 test date. On the contrary, he mentioned receiving only the June 2014 U.S. test, which he predicted (incorrectly) was going to be used on January 24. These claims are still up on his website, for anyone to inspect:
http://www.fairtest.org/widespread-sat-cheating-continues-asia
Meanwhile, as usual, Strauss doesn’t post so much as a single screen cap to prove that Schaeffer has what he says he has.
Do you all see my point about honesty now?
These people are just shamelessly making stuff up.
One of the problem in the U.S. nowadays is journalism ethics. Where are “truthfulness, accuracy, objectivity, impartiality, fairness and public accountability”?
You guys have a lot of partisan.
I suppose it’s possible Schaeffer is lying (although I have no reason to believe he is and I’ve personally seen unreleased tests online and in .pdf form), but I’m not sure that actually undermines the actual claim that ETS’ test recycling is part of the problem nor do I understand why you’re so vehemently critical of Schaeffer and Strauss, both of whom are bringing attention to a real problem: test recycling allows for some of the most pernicious forms of cheating.
I suppose you might not believe that form of cheating happens at all. In that case, then I suppose that’s a reasonable position to hold. I don’t share it, though, and nobody I know in the SAT prep industry in Korea or China shares it either.
[Even the College Board knows it, in fact](http://paperzz.com/doc/2873084/information-regarding-international-sat®-administrations):
You are just making me repeating what I said before.
- Let's put it this way: suppose you want to help a poor man. You met him on the street once, but you take some pictures and tell a story about how he was a Navy SEAL but he has cancer and his wife is killed by drug dealers and his daughter has ebola and he is homeless because Bank of America took his house and he was beaten 50 times by the police when sitting on the sidewalk. Your purpose is beautiful. The way you do is disgraceful. You can't lie.
- I quote myself "Now, I do not support cheating, and I am fully aware of the situation. There were cheatings, a lot, the most common was time-zone cheating. There seemed to be also some serious scandals in China and Korea too. I'm pissed. (Let's just say that I'm a hypocrite and I hate cheating just since I can't, because I'm neither Korean/Chinese nor live in a late time-zone, for the sake of my argument). Cheating hurts virtuous hypocritical test-takers, like me."
Now, I quote Schaeffer: “SAT questions posted online before exam was recently given in Asia”.
Sometimes I go to the countryside. This is what I usually smell when I walk behind a buffalo.
@marvin100
Sorry, but you’re doing that “straw man” thing again, where you respond to me by refuting something I have neither said nor implied.
For the purposes of this thread, I’m not even interested in discussing the extent to which cheating takes place and how exactly it is done. The purpose of my last post was simply to expose these two as liars, simply because I am opposed to liars and to lying. Is that not good enough?
I’m just trying to figure out why you’re so vehemently critical of Schaeffer and Strauss’ reporting. Just to be clear: you’re angry at them because you believe they’re liars, and you believe they’re liars because they haven’t made their evidence public. Is that right?
As I’ve said before, though, there are plenty of valid reasons not to make illegal documents public (for example, I’ve been shown unreleased tests but I certainly wouldn’t make them public or even open/download them on my computer!). In other words, your claims that Schaeffer and Strauss are lying are not the only valid interpretations.
I’ll quote the College Board again: “Over the past three months, organizations and individuals have illegally obtained and shared test materials for their own profit, to the ultimate detriment of students.”
Given that even the College Board is saying that illegal tests have been obtained and shared, doesn’t it seem plausible that someone would have sent one or more to Schaeffer, since he’s the most visible critic of test recycling?
To answer your first question: No. They lied since the moment they said that the test was a recycled test of U.S. June 2014. And now they are fixing it.