<p>My hs juniors took the ACT and were both pleased with their scores. Because we live in a state where taking the ACT is part of the junior year state requirements, they will be taking it again in April, so if they improve, it's icing on the cake; if not, they are fine where they are. So, in light of that, and knowing that all of their chosen schools accept the ACT, they're not seeing a need to take the SAT itself.</p>
<p>They are each taking 3 AP tests in May (language, English, Euro hist for one, language, chem, econ for the other).</p>
<p>Only 3 of the schools that they are interested in require (or strongly recommend) SAT II's. The test date for the SAT II's is May 1, just prior to the AP's (which they are prepping for, both in class and outside of class).</p>
<p>So ... I hate to be dumb here, but is there any grand strategy here?
Or do I just tell them to pick the three subjects that interest them most (which, chances are, will be the same subjects they'll be taking AP exams for a week later) and just figure that the work they're doing to prepare for the AP will prepare them for the SAT II's?</p>
<p>Is there any downside, or is there something I'm missing here?</p>
<p>And what is a "good score" on the SAT II's? Do I think of it the same way as I would think about SAT scores?</p>
<p>It's been years since I took them and they were still called Achievement Tests, that's how old I am, ha ha.</p>
<p>If you search on the SAT subject forum, you’ll find lots of good info. There’s a long list of the best study guides for each test.</p>
<p>My d only took 2 subject tests at at a time, she felt her brain would explode if she took 3 at one sitting. </p>
<p>Also keep in mind your students could take the SATs in June following the AP tests.</p>
<p>But yes, in general, I think your strategy is a good one - take the SATs for the APs where your students feel confident they’ll score well. My d did that last year with Chemistry and scored extremely well on both, though the subject matter didn’t totally overlap.</p>
<p>Oh and as for a “good score” as with everything, it depends on the college. One top 20 (yeah, I know) LAC said their average scores for accepted students is between 680 and 720. I think in general anything above 700 is considered very good, and 750+ is fabulous in everybody’s book. Of course if your students are looking at tippy top engineering schools (Harvey Mudd, MIT etc.) the scores should be very close to 800.</p>
<p>ETA you know that if the school “strongly recommends” them, your students will be at a strong disadvantage if they don’t take them. ;)</p>
<p>Some schools recommend rather specifically that they want a math SAT and either a science or humanaties SAT as the second, so you will want to carefully check the college websites of the schools your kids are thinking about for this information. </p>
<p>Many posters have recommended no more than two subject tests per sitting (it wasn’t clear to me if your kids were planning on taking two or three in May.) If they have to take three that day, they will want to pre-plan which test to take first, second and third, anticipating they will be at least somewhat burned out by the time they get to the third subject. (They will be able to select the order in which they take the subject tests.)</p>
<p>Not sure what kind of programs they are looking at, but an 800 score on the Math2 would be the goal for top science/tech schools or programs.</p>
<p>Double check what test they will be taking and the dates they will be offered. Colllegeboard website shows many of the language tests are not offered in May, and World History is not offered in May. (Most, but not all, are offered in June)</p>
<p>Many students find it tough to take 3 of these tests in 1 day. Downside is that, along with AP tests, they could be stressed. Upside is that they can taken care of in 1 shot.</p>
<p>The math tests and some of the languages seem to have different “expectations” from what I’ve seen. I was told that the Latin test is very difficult…even for kids who have done well in AP Latin…so high 600’s is considered very good. Math 1 and Math 2 are on very different curves. At one point, Stanford strongly suggested Math 2. You would need to check on the specific requirements of the other schools your kids are looking at (as well as any honors programs and scholarship progams that may require SATII)</p>
<p>I registered my S for 3 SAT II tests. Could he just take the first two and walk out if he’s too fried to do the third? Also, to the OP, keep in mind that some universities accept only the Math 2 SAT II, the UC’s among them.</p>
<p>I never recommend taking any test that you are not prepared for.</p>
<p>Is that English “language” or foreign language. English Language may not prepare you well enough for the Lit subject test. If foreign language AP, take the ST.</p>
<p>There is a fair amount of overlap between Euro and World History, which is only offered in June and Dec. However, in recent years CB has been de-emphasing the Euro questions of the WH subject test in favor of other continents. </p>
<p>If taking AP Chem, definitely take the Chem ST.</p>
<p>The best way to gauge readiness is to pickup CB’s practice book of Subject tests and take one at home.</p>
<p>You get the most bang for the buck (effort-wise that is), if you align your choice of SAT II’s (I also still call them Achievement Tests. I learned the new lingo only last year) with your AP’s. The AP tests are not exactly supersets of the SAT II’s, so have them work on the SAT II study guides. I agree about splitting up the three subject tests between May and June. Make sure they understand the SAT II requirements of their target colleges. A score of 750 or higher would be good enough for any elite college.</p>
<p>The key is to take the tests when the subject is freshest in the student’s mind. The best time to take Math II is right after pre-calc. Other curriculum-based SAT IIs (US History, Chem, Bio, foreign languages, etc.) should be taken as close as possible to the time of the corresponding APs. Right after the AP is the optimal time, IMO. I agree with the poster who recommended reading the SAT forum here to find the best review books for each subject; the formats for the SAT IIs differ somewhat from the formats for the corresponding AP exams, so it’s wise to do some independent review beyond AP prep. </p>
<p>Opinions differ on how many SAT IIs to take in one sitting. My kid took one alone, then two more together. He is an excellent test taker, but felt that three in one morning would be needlessly grueling. </p>
<p>As for choosing tests, I agree with at least one math/science and one humanities-based selection, unless the student is very lopsided and knows s/he will bomb the test in a particular subject area. In that case, test to your strengths. </p>
<p>I second the suggestion of getting the Subject test practice book and going through it. I also second the suggestion of only doing two tests at a sitting.</p>
<p>FWIW, My D got a 5 on Euro History AP test, and found the SAT II World History had way too much unfamiliar stuff.</p>
<p>There’s only a couple of schools that require three SAT II’s (I know I’ll stand corrected on this quickly, but I want to say Harvard and Princeton plus a few others) so double check before you have your kids take 3 vs. 2. You don’t want to close any doors and have to scramble for that 3rd test come October but…</p>
<p>powayparent, yes I believe he can just walk out at the end of 2 tests and not take the third test. He just gets graded on the tests he actually takes.</p>
<p>Some of our local SAT prep companies give and grade free practice Subject tests. This is a good way to help decide which tests to take.</p>
<p>Some colleges use the foreign language subject test as a placement test or even meeting the college requirement for that language. So if your students could score well (check the colleges but perhaps above 650) in the foreign language they are taking now, it could free up some class time in college.</p>
<p>Chemistry AP class generally prepares the students well for the Chem Subject Test.</p>
<p>Trig/Precalc class generally prepares the students well for the Math II Subject Test.</p>
<p>What my D did her junior year, and this worked out for us </p>
<p>1) took Math 2 SAT II in February</p>
<p>2) took two more SAT II tests in June, after the AP tests. Registered for 3 likely tests and took 2. You can actually decide which 2 of the 3 you are going to take on the day of the test. If you are not taking a test you are registered for, you have to tell them right away when you get there, well before they would give you the test book. And right, no money refunded. (I think three in one day would be hard on your brain; it was by plan that she registered for three and took two on that Saturday in June. She was waiting to see which two she felt most confident on.)</p>
<p>I am happy that based on my son’s current opinions on colleges, he won’t have to take any SAT II’s. Maybe he’ll do Math 2 so he has that score on file.</p>
<p>It really appears to be only one college on the list (Georgetown, for S) that requires them. Then two others recommend them (Carleton, Northwestern). Then the rest of them – which are mostly LAC’s and a few universities in the top 20/top 40 range – seem not to require them at all (accepting the ACT in lieu of SAT / SAT II’s). Does this make sense to people? I would have thought they would be a lot more popular / required.</p>
<p>Both my kids took three SATs in one sitting and didn’t think it was a problem. The older one walked out with 3 800s and never had to think about subject tests again. The younger one didn’t like his math score the first time - he should have done well being in Pre-Calc, but in fact they’d been doing Calculus for months and he’s not very fast at math. He retook SATs in June and took Lit instead of math. His studying for it consisted of taking one practice test. He retook two other tests just to see if he could do better, but didn’t study for them. I think both scores ended up being slightly lower than they’d been the month before! They were still fine and the lit score was in the same range.</p>
<p>Rule of thumb: take any subject test if you are also taking the AP - you probably won’t have to do any additional studying. Take Math 2 if you are in pre-calc, but check a sample test - there are a couple of things on the test you might have to learn (Like matrices, but the problems are really really easy.)</p>
<p>Personally I think foreign language tests should be put off till senior year at which point you’ll know if a good score will excuse your kid from the language requirement. However you can certainly try out a practice test - just be aware some language tests percentiles may be skewed by native speakers. Harvard still gives credit for anything over a 600 which seems pretty doable to me. The tests look easy to me in the two languages I speak (but I speak them pretty fluently having lived in the countries where they are spoken.)</p>
<p>I think the only schools that require three that I know of are Harvard and Georgetown. Princeton only requires two. My kids figured you just take three and then you can pick the best two.</p>
<p>one other thought: the Literature test is not for the faint-at-heart, i.e., the non-reader. Heck, even strong readers can bomb it. Last year, students posted a thread on cc of those who scored a 5 on the AP test, but low 600 or even 500+ on the Lit subject test, taken only a few months prior (fall/winter senior year). (Typically, an AP 5 correlates to a mid-high 700 in that specific subject, such as Chem, Bio, USHistory…)</p>
<p>Thus, the Lit test should only be taken if you are comfortable with the expected outcome by taking a couple of practice tests at home. Sometimes it’s the luck of the poem – which may have been read in class – or, bocs its barely interesting reading, unlike most CB passages which are more boring than watching paint dry.</p>
<p>btw: even tho a college may not require subject tests, strong scores can only help an applicant.</p>
<p>On the walking out on the third test issue, don’t forget that you can actually sign up for two and chose to stay and take a third one. They’ll bill you for it. That might be the way to go if your kid is uncertain about the third test.</p>
<p>PizzaGirl, all of the schools my S applied to either required or recommended–which means required to me–at least 2 SAT IIs, and there was overlap with the schools you’ve mentioned. I say take three and keep your options open.</p>
<p>My younger son thought the Lit test was just like the CR portion of the SAT with poetry added. But I admit he had a skyhigh score on that section. His Lit test was 80 points lower but still over 700. Do the math. He needed a third test good test score and Lit looked like his best bet for an over 700 score. He took the practice test to make sure his sense was right. He hates English and skipped taking either of the AP English courses. Having a great time this year taking an elective reading mysteries.</p>
He needed a third test good test score and Lit looked like his best bet for an over 700 score. He took the practice test to make sure his sense was right. He hates English and skipped taking either of the AP English courses. Having a great time this year taking an elective reading mysteries.</p>