DUMBFOUNDED!!!!!!!! OVER USC MERIT SCHOLARSHIP CANDIDATES

Paying for College
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<p>Got to vent a bit here! I am beyond frustrated & disappointed with USC !!<br>
.... my D is not a candidate for one of the 4-big merit scholarshis did NOT receive the "packet"- while, I was of course disappointed, I was generally okay with the outcome, assuming there obviously must have been a subset of the population more qualified and worthy of such auspicious distinction.... UNTIL I GOT NEWS that her BBF got "the packet confirming scholarship candidacy! I am not a crumudgeon and I AM very very excited for her deserving friend but I just dont get it!! ?? ARGH -- These awards are supposedly based on merit, right?</p>

<p>The USC website outlines criteria that encompasses more than just objective elements of GPA & SAT; attributes including perserverence, leadership, etc etc are also considered. USC applauds themeselves for looking at the whole student ..... but, let me show you the "whole" of both applicants and ask your opinion looking at the whole (my daughter/ denied scholarship designation, her bff awarded consideration ... PLEASE WEIGH IN .... help me understand as I am at a loss:</p>

<pre><code> my D

</code></pre>

<p>SAT : 2300 1st sitting / 2320 SS<br>
SATII: Math 2-790, Lit 720<br>
GPA : Weighted ~4.35 3.95<br>
AP-exam: 8 APs 5's (one -3)<br>
Courseload: Most rigorous available<br>
Other: 2 summers local Junior College courses<br>
PE no PE, to take 6 academic periods for full-load x 3 years<br>
(PE requirement met through sports)</p>

<pre><code> Friend
1950/ 2020 SS
Didn't take SAT subject
4.08 / 3.9 estimate
2 APs (probably 5's)
Some rigor
No J.C. / augment classes
5 academic periods
</code></pre>

<p>Leadership
Dtr: President x 3 yrs / Student Body Pres. x1<br>
Friend: Non-office holding member 1 year</p>

<p>Academics/ Clubs/Award</p>

<pre><code> Dtr: Mock Trial President 2yrs, Attorney 4yrs

-with county awards& state finals
County Youth Courth Advocate

CSF

JSA & DECA (non-comp)

Johns Hopkins CTU member
Academic Mock Trial Camps
Academic Ivy Camps
Annual l winner of school citizenship/attitude award

   Friend:
        JSA, CSF, DECA (non-comp)

</code></pre>

<p>Internships & Jobs
Dtr: Law Firm paid intership X 2summers<br>
Pvt Practice law intership x 1 summer<br>
Part-time job (retail) </p>

<pre><code> Friend: none
</code></pre>

<p>Sports
Dtr: basketball x 1 yr, lax x 3 yrs (captain x1) </p>

<pre><code> Friend: soccer x 2, track x2
</code></pre>

<p>Philanthropy
- both members of same vol. org with similar hours/ tasks each ~ 45 hrs/ year</p>

<pre><code> Dtr: 4 years of leadership 40 hr req

Friend: 1 year of leadership 40 hr req
</code></pre>

<p>Recc's
Both: likely excellent </p>

<pre><code> Dtr: English teacher asked her if he could write, other recc from leadership/ calc teacher
</code></pre>

<p>Other
Daughter - no hook </p>

<pre><code> Friend -possibly non-serious health ailment
-minority surname/ ? if on official school records
</code></pre>

<p>Of note: I am supremely excited for my daughter's friend and think she will be a wonderful asset to USC, she is naturally smart, and above average for sure ..... I do not in any way begrudge her windfall.... but just cannot figure out why a merit scholarship committee would overlook someone who meets ALL their published criteria to the N-th degree!</p>

<p>( .... had I not been privy to the particulars of my D's buddy, I would have assumed the awards were meted to ridiculous off the charts kinds of kids... I really thought my D had a shot; and unfortunately we cannot afford SC without a sizable scholarship!)</p>

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<p>OOOPS … this is hard to read … my tabs have been eliminated … by daughter is first set of info (left margin) - friend on right …
I’ll try to edit!</p>

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<p>It’s hard to follow…</p>

<p>Is 2320 your D’s score? and 2300 BFF? what are the M+CR?<br>
The inclusive scores are too close to matter. Maybe the M+CR scores are different.</p>

<p>Are you saying that the BFF is a URM? or has URM last name?</p>

<p>Is the BFF a NAchievment or NHispanic</p>

<p>What is the BFF’s major? </p>

<p>What state are they from?</p>

<p>I’d be willing to be that ECs do not play much of a role here. Major choice, gender, URM status, regional diversity may make a difference.</p>

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<p>@mom2collegekids … ya, thanks! I just fixed it!</p>

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<p>daughter - phil/law/poly sci (new one),
friend- business/mrktg</p>

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<p>both girls</p>

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<p>Some years ago, a young lady in this area that we well knew did not get one of BC’s merit awards. Initially, no big deal, though her parents did inquire what the heck it took to get the award since she was truly a top of the top student. </p>

<p>At the same time, I knew another young lady in the Midwest, who did get one of the awards, and she did not hold a candle to the local girl Not even close But it was location, location, location, clearly at play here BC had more candidates from our area than possibly any place else in the world, but someone from mid west was a catch.</p>

<p>Now clearly that is not the issue here since both your DD and her friend are from the. same area/school. The thing is, you have no idea what was a lot of the application. The recs, for example. Did the GC call the other girl best she’d ever seen. Did the young lady check off URM status? Did she have some family situation unbeknownst to you or others that put her in a challeged category? </p>

<p>You also don’t know the breakpoints for GPA and SATs. They are often designated scores and a 2400 and a 2200, for example might both be “5s” and therefore equivalent. The same goes for alot of things. You may think one app to be superior, but when reduced to a numerical or letter grading system they are identical, and then the decision is made by the little extra factors. </p>

<p>Sorry about this. I know it hurts. But it’ often impossible to find out what the trump card might be in these things. My one son, for example, tells no one about his history as a cancer survivor, but it was in his app, and, yes, it did make a difference and netted him a scholarship There were some parents at his schools that were sratching their heads as to how he got into his set of schools, but there were things in his files, including some outstanding, unusual essays as well as life challeges that were more of interest to some schools that the normal fare.</p>

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<p>So sorry about this.</p>

<p>You’re not listing the M+CR which is what USC would more likely use.</p>

<p>Did the friend take the ACT??</p>

<p>“Did the young lady check off URM status? Did she have some family situation unbeknownst to you or others that put her in a challenged category?”</p>

<p>The above certainly could have made a difference if USC needs more URMs. </p>

<p>Other than that, the results seem strange. </p>

<p>However, if the major depts get a say, then that would also make a difference.</p>

<p>did your D apply anywhere else that gave her huge merit?</p>

<p>My friend’s D had an ACT 35 and top ranked at her school. got NOTHING from USC. She’s attending MIT.</p>

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<p>So sorry. I actually know the feeling. D has one of in-state scholarships and loves USC. But we went through similar with older D. She did not get chosen for competition with over 1500 CR+M, but several others from same school were chosen with lower scores. (The year my older D was applying we kind of joked that it seemed like the only way you could get a scholarship was to participate in MUN - colleges, not just USC, seem enamored with that)Same dynamic at some other schools but she did get great scholarship to top LAC…it’s just hard to know what they look for when it’s not just flat out grades/scores. Even though someone dismissed the emphasis in another thread I know that essays count a lot. But with USC as with other schools it’s not very straightforward. Hard not to take it personally when it’s your child. </p>

<p>With those scores is your D NMF? If this hasn’t soured your child to USC then Leiber plus tuition waiver still makes it a good bargain</p>

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<ul>
<li>hi moms - thanks so so much for all of your input! so so appreciated … oddly, just having a sounding board and listening ears helps!</li>
</ul>

<p>So in response to some of the questions/ comments:</p>

<p>1) As the friend is literally one of D’s 2 best friends & family friends we’ve have known for several years - I think it would be very unlikely she had a serious illness (s/a cancer) that we were unaware of (no missing episodes in school career, summer social gatherings, or other signs). The girls do attend the same school. Thus, many of the unknowns ( X-factors, if you will) are not total mysteries. </p>

<p>2) There are a couple URM’s she could have legitimately claimed, most notable of which is 12-25% Native American status~HOWEVER, ironically, when I strongly encouraged friend’s Mom to pursue the process of verification, she was reticient, as all the family government-necessitated documentation had been burned in a fire years back - She did not want to go through the hassle to pursue. Likewise despite their hispanic surname, she never formally altered her children’s school records to reflect their latino heritage. (This mom is a self-made, accomplished, busy working woman, with many irons in the fire and shared her conviction that her children get in based on their merit not URM status.) D’s friend will be 1st generation to college (along with brother who is presently at another U) - perhaps this was a factor?!</p>

<p>Next, based on brackets and assigned numeric rating ( ie 5, as above suggested) - I agree possible, but more likely if their test scores were more commiserate. My daughter scored in the 99Th percentile… I could see if my daughter’s 2320 was “graded” similar to someone with a 2200; but not against someone with a 2020 ?!</p>

<p>Forgot who asked… but my D’s Cr+Math was 1520 (760 math + 760 cr with an 800 in writing) … and Subject test in Math 2 = 790; whereas friend didn’t even take a SAT II …</p>

<p>As far as recc’s anything is possible … I tend to believe since my D’s teacher actually asked her if he could write her reccomendation (before she inquired) and he genuinely liked her, that his recc was stellar. The other teacher recc. was likely solid but as a math teacher likely not as verbose, or glowing. While her friend could have received a very favorable recc. as she has not been involved in as much schoolwide it likely was limited to class participation/ activities only… but, maybe that’s a good thing?</p>

<p>Finally - My D’s buddy does have a chronic non-serious health condition … not severe, nor grossly limiting … but perhaps it made her stand-out as one of you suggested.</p>

<p>Oh… no, my D was not NMF she was really sick the day she took the PSAT and just missed cut-off… bummer</p>

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<p>What scholarship did the friend get? Sometimes it is easier to offer a quarter or 1/8th tuition scholarship for someone with lower stats and get them excited about attending a school than invite someone with higher stats to offer them half or full tuition. I would suspect your daughter would be offended to receive a smaller scholarship with her numbers anyway.</p>

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<p>Was the friend a NMSF?</p>

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<p>Unsure as to what scholarship her friend got . . . . because of course my “unmeritable” daughter went straight from school, to study group, onto the County’s Court House for a Mock Trial competition, to return via public transportation at about 10:30 to start on her homework!! ( According to the USC powers that be all in vain, as she could have done 1/8 as much and received more accomodation - In a mother’s eyes, killling herself for bupkiss! lol)… So all that sarcasm to say, unfortunately, I have not had a chance to speak with my D today just a quick 1 min conversation and a couple of texts.</p>

<ul>
<li>I feel like the university should be more forthright on the stipulations was what “merit’ means to them - I called and all they said was " this is highly competitive” - when I tried to asked based on what becasue it didn’t appear to be objectiive data points, or EC’s, leadership experience, drive, focus, perserverance… pushing oneself to highest potential in all areas under ones possible control I don’t know what the currency of competition is?
! I hope/pray brighter news is on the horizon.</li>
</ul>

<p>sorry - I’m sour - must be quickly pushing through the stages of grief - now on “rage” - haaha … what’s next? (acceptance?)</p>

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<p>You are not alone. Parent I know is in same situation. Her D is a 2300+,top 1%,NMSF in CA and did not get notified even though had a good interview etc. Other kids with a 2000+ and with a 3.7 unweighted got in. Parent was asking me if she should appeal. But in this case, it is a deferral. So nothing can be done. All I can think of is perhaps they did not find her meeting “USC culture”…whatever that is. I think it could be a “safety school” issue and they dont think kids will select it over other options, in her case, it is UC regents potential…Also I think USC with their aggressive marketing leads kids in this path but that is the nature of the business. Very unfortunate. Sorry to hear about your D.</p>

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<p>OP - If I’m not mistaken, each college at USC selects a few students to interview for the top awards. As your daughter and her friend are in majors that seem to indicate they would be in different schools (i.e. business v. liberal arts), chances are two different committees reviewed their applications from two different pools of candidates. What each school looks for may also be different. I think it’s almost like applying to two different universities. The old comparing apples to oranges here.</p>

<p>My son received the big packet and was super-excited to open it, only to find absolutely no scholarship info. Huge bummer there, but he is in already and should get the NMF scholarship. Not sure why they sent out packages now without interview invitations as we had thought the only ones getting accepted right now were those invited to interview. Oh well.</p>

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<p>What if your daughter was unfortunately yield protected (if they don’t want an admitted student or feel as if they won’t come, they won’t give them the money)? As in she would have been (or has already been) admitted, but they denied her the scholarship because they looked at the stats and figured she would matriculate elsewhere if admitted (perhaps to top schools extremely generous with need based aid). This of course would not make sense if you guys are from California (in which case they can fairly assume that both parties may seriously be interested in USC no matter their caliber). Are you all from California? </p>

<p>In addition, USC really, really excels at business(meaning, that if the friend was very well qualified outside of the scores, they felt she was more likely to yield) whereas many other top privates may be great (perhaps much better at the UG level, if not only due to size difference and environment. Many of the smaller have more tight-nit “intellectual” community feels, especially within those departments) at your daughter’s interest. If she cited them somewhere in the app., again, they may have feared she wasn’t going. Did your daughter apply elsewhere that may be great options with those academic interests? If so, I would expect her to be successful and I would also hope and imagine that she has a great chance at a good need-based aid package as several of say, the top 20s are actually very generous. </p>

<p>In addition, was there an interview process for finalists like there is with prestigious scholarships at other top private universities (the non-Ivies)?</p>

<p>And yes, for all we know, the surname could have helped.</p>

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<p>@bernie12 -I think OP’s D was “deferred”…there is a subset of folks who have been offered admission even though no scholarship. OP’s D was just set aside which is what I am hearing from a lot of other high Stat folks. Yep…they shouldn’t call it "merit "… It is yield protection all the way…and the fear that it is clearly a safety for her (in their opinion)</p>

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<p>USC hasn’t actually deferred anybody yet. It has just accepted a few early, most of whom got invitations to interview for scholarships. </p>

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<p>Again a big THANKS to those chiming-in; you are all so clever & wise!</p>

<p>@bernie12 -perhaps you are on to something … my daughter texted me later this afternoon that 2 of her uber-achieving top-5% buddies did not get the USC-scholarship offers either (and one of them was also a business major, like D’s BFF with scholarship. )</p>

<p>… To the kind contributor who asked me Re: our residence - We are in California (big suburban school) - California kids are definitely more SC-centric than other areas of the US. </p>

<p>Sadly, if awarded a sizable scholarship, my daughter probably would have gone to USC over one of the higher ranked east coast schools she’s applied to! As one-dimensional as I may have made her sound, she a social butterfly, a sun /beach lover who is super-spirited, loves big football PAC games, basketball, etc & all the pageantry that goes with it! Too bad, such a shame!</p>

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<p>Did your daughter apply to Vanderbilt or Duke? These are among the very social schools (and relatively good weather) of the east coast and not as “intense” as the others when it comes to academics (beyond making good grades that is/academic credentials. Basically, these places have very smart students that aren’t particularly nerdy or quirky like those at the other top flight east coast schools. They are overachievers looking for the standard college experience, but with much better than average academics). They are kind of like those schools without the beaches. I know my alma mater is really good at the UG level in those two areas, and like the other southern top privates, is quite social (just not football level social), but is also kind of academically intense/oriented like the other east coast schools, but I don’t think your daughter would like that. Your daughter seems like a good fit for Stanford, Vanderbilt, Duke, Georgetown, and Notre Dame. These schools are known for the less “quirky” type of school spirit that your daughter obviously enjoys. They have more traditional social scenes kind of akin to what you see at large private schools like USC and public schools except you still get the relatively small class sizes and things of that nature. I hope she does find a place that she finds out is a decent
match and offers quite a bit of money. Who knows, she may actually end up enjoying one of the places that are actually more academically oriented/intense. It doesn’t necessarily hurt to be in more “socio-academic” environments (I made that up). Its certainly makes for interesting conversations and discourse on a day to day basis. </p>