<p>Lets say the COA of Univ. A is $45,000/yr and our EFC is $10,000. If the school admitted our D knowing that, does it mean the school would only expect us to pay $10,000? </p>
<p>BTW, when and where do you submit your EFC?</p>
<p>The school would only expect you to pay $10,000 (plus your daughter's self-help portion) if (and only if) they meet 100% of need. However, most schools don't meet 100% of need and the ones that do often cover some of that need with loans (so you actually end up paying for these too).</p>
<p>You submit your EFC when you submit your FAFSA. And this stuff is generally due around the time regular decision apps are due. I know my financial aid application was due in February/March.</p>
<p>So, a University which does not meet 100% of need will use EFC as a factor in admission? </p>
<p>What would happen if we already have loans up to our eyeballs?</p>
<p>Not necessarily. Some schools are need blind, which means they will evaluate your application without taking into account financial situation. And other schools do take financial situation into account when evaluating an application. But this is a separate designation from meeting 100% of need (which occurs only after you've been accepted).</p>
<p>And, if you already have a ton of loans, you could try to talk to the financial aid office and see what they can do.</p>
<p>o.k. I am slow and easily confused. Let's use examples here.</p>
<p>If my D applied to Duke. Our EFC is $10,000 and the COA of Duke is $50,000. When D's application is reviewed, they will see that they have to come up with $40,000 to take D in. Even so D's stat are very good, that short fall of $40,000 could then kill her chance of getting admistted? Because the school will pass D to get someone with similar stat but a EFC of $30,000?</p>
<p>Okay, Duke is a need blind school. This means that when they review your daughter's application, they won't even take into consideration the fact that you need financial aid.</p>
<p>Duke also meets 100% of financial need. So, if your daughter were to get accepted, they would provide all the financial aid that you require (I'm not sure if they meet some of this in loans or not).</p>
<p>May be the use of Duke as an example is a bad choice. What happens if we just use Univ_A in place of Duke in my question in #5. </p>
<p>So, we need to find universities that is need blind to apply. With a EFC of $10,000, we should eliminate any school that is not need blind out.</p>
<p>Sorry I forgot to say "thank you very much".</p>
<p>You will need to check on each university your daughter is interested in to see if it is a "need blind" school. Unless Duke has changed recently, I believe it is a "need blind" school, meaning they state they do not take ability to pay into consideration at the point of making admissions decisions.</p>
<p>You will probably lure in a poster or two who does not believe any school is truly need-blind and that the public position is a ruse of sorts. I don't have any opinion on that matter.</p>
<p>However, with regard to financial aid, the package your daughter is offered from most schools will likely contain a loan of some sort. If you are already "up to your eyeballs in loans" this might be important. A few of the top schools give all non-loan aid to those who are offered financial aid. Check the financial aid web sites of particular schools.</p>
<p>Also, please be aware that the EFC you're talking about is one that is designated by FAFSA. Most private (non-state) schools also require parents to fill out a form called the CSS Profile, which contains different figures (and also requires information from a non-custodial parent in the case of divorce or never-married). Schools can evaluate the information contained in the Profile in very different ways to come up with an "institutional" EFC. This is usually much higher than the FAFSA EFC. That's why you'll see discussions about the "Federal methodology" (FAFSA) and the "institutional methodology" (Profile).</p>
<p>So, in short, your FAFSA EFC may be $10,000. The school's determination of your EFC may be substantially higher.</p>
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So, if your daughter were to get accepted, they would provide all the financial aid that you require
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<p>Does Duke use the Profile as well as the FAFSA? The EFC is not calculated the same by all schools, Dad II, and you should keep this in mind. Some private schools use Profile as well as a separate institutional form to determine "all the financial aid you require"; their determination may not be the same as your idea of what you require.</p>
<p>A good friend of my son discovered this when a "top 10" university offered him half as much need-based financial aid as a top LAC; same data, same parents, very different amount of financial aid.</p>
<p>cross-posted with Chedva. Sorry for the repeat.</p>
<p>I agree with midmo, your best options are probably to find schools that are need-blind or are not too expensive (maybe a state school). Your daughter should probably apply for a few scholarships or to schools that give merit aid.</p>
<p>Now I started to understand when others told me their kids can't afford this or that school. </p>
<p>Well, we need to go back to drawing board again per selection of schools. So, all these GPA, excellent E/C and near perfect ACT do not mean as much as a DAD with a million $ income.</p>
<p>Again examples. Our EFC $10K, Univ<em>A COA $50K, Univ</em>A is a need blind school. D got in, FA is 40K but contains 25K loan. D says, bye bye Univ_A. </p>
<p>so, true options - lower cost or lower ranking.</p>
<p>
Well, all that stuff is good. If your daughter is competitive at a top school, then you may not have to worry about paying (many of the top schools have financial aid intiatives that cover full tuition for low-income students). or if your daughter applies to a lot of other schools, she can get merit scholarships. her grades and accomplishments are worth something.</p>
<p>Well, it is a bit of a shock when you realize that BIG NAME UNIVERSITY may not be a possibility for reasons that have nothing to do with your daughter's accomplishments and potential.</p>
<p>On the other hand, this early realization that there MIGHT be a problem with paying for the dream school gives you an opportunity to investigate other highly ranked schools that offer merit aid to top students. You might be pleasantly surprised.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>all these GPA, excellent E/C and near perfect ACT do not mean as much as a DAD with a million $ income.>></p> </blockquote>
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<p>You are talking about two different issues. One is the financial aid issue and one is the issue of acceptance if you need significant aid.</p>
<p>Here is my opinion...and it is just that...MY OPINION. The "edge" that a student gets by being full pay is not all that significant. Many of these schools are looking for well qualified students from backgrounds besides the "million $ income" to fill their ranks. So....if your EFC is more than another student EFC, that is no guarantee that your child will...or won't get accepted. Period.</p>
<p>Now regarding finaid...your EFC is calculated by the school. That you have significant loans will be considered a choice in most cases. There is no place on the finaid applications to indicate significant loans. The only exception would be if you had a "special circumstance"...loss of income for a long period of time (necessitating use of loans), or unanticipated high medical expenses. But college loans, mortgages, car loans, personal loans, etc...well...to be honest, they do not factor into the equation at all.</p>
<p>Now regarding the "meet full need schools". Many, if not most of them are intensely competitive for admission. The first hurdle is getting admitted and in some cases better than 90% of the students applying are rejected...not admitted. Yes, there are schools that meet full need that are not as competitive, but not too many. Students with very equal stats going into the application process at these schools can have very different outcomes (i.e. some get accepted and others do not). </p>
<p>You need to have a balanced list of schools from both an acceptance point of view, and a financial one. </p>
<p>You might want to meander over to the Financial Aid/Scholarship area of this forum. I started a thread there about Preparing for Financial Aid and it is tacked at the top. Also there are a ton of other threads over there that discuss the finances of college.</p>
<p>Many top schools describe themselves as need blind, and I think most of those also meet 100 % of need (has anyone actually analyzed that, to see what the overlaps are in those two categories?). I also think that most need-blind schools do not offer merit awards -- another category to consider. </p>
<p>While it is true that colleges are very interested in accepting full-pay students to meet their financial goals, they are also very interested in diversity, and that includes socio-economic diversity. I don't think that need-blind schools reject a majority of students based solely on financial need. (Although maybe I'm naive or overly optimistic.) So I wouldn't worry that your economic situation alone would cause a rejection.</p>
<p>I would pay attention to schools that don't pay 100% of need, and be cautious about applying to these. With your daughter's stats, she might get merit awards -- but it's hard to say whether those merit awards will be better or worse than financial aid.</p>
<p>Suggestions: Find threads started by curmudgeon, who did amazing research into schools that give merit aid, which paid off big time for his kid. And consider paying for the US News & World Report online, which gives lots of information about financial aid -- such as the percent of kids who applied who actually received aid, and how much aid they received. </p>
<p>And make sure at least one school she applies to is a financial safety, most likely your state college.</p>
<p>Parents have many different ways of defining "can't afford college." There are middle class families who are squeezed, or hurt by the way the financial aid formulas are designed. There are also families who aren't willing to take out loans or give up their annual Caribbean vacation.</p>
<p>There are tons of threads on CC about merit aid, financial aid, FAFSA vs. profile, etc. You'll learn a lot if you find them.</p>
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I also think that most need-blind schools do not offer merit awards
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<p>I don't know about "most", but Vanderbilt Univ. is "need-blind" and also offers a variety of merit scholarships, some of which require a separate application, others which require no separate application and range from 1/3 of tuition up to full tuition and fees. Also, their national merit program is more generous than most.</p>
<p>Yeah, Duke is need-blind but offers merit scholarships.</p>
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There are also families who aren't willing to take out loans or give up their annual Caribbean vacation.
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<p>Ouch. I don't like these two statements joined together. Because we are mid-50s and support numerous family members, we are averse to loans, but I've never had a Caribbean vacation, so giving them up wasn't part of the picture.</p>