Dyslexia and High IQ kid

Parents Forum
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I have read some older threads here about dyslexia and high IQ kids but I am posting because I have a few questions. I know this is long, so please bear with me as I think the background is important.

Background:
DD is in high school (10th grade) and I suspect she has either dyslexia or else some other visual processing disorder. I have suspected that something was going on with her reading for many years, but she never seemed to have a problem in school up to now. She gets/has gotten all A’s and her numerical grades are generally all 100’s or very near. She is two years ahead in math has been assessed as gifted and is an auditory learner for sure. She used to love reading, (as in reading and understanding Dante’s Inferno when she was like 8 or 9 years old), but fast forward to the past few years and she hates reading with a passion. I have her read out loud to me and she stumbles over the words. It takes her forever and a day to get her homework done when it requires heavy reading. I am seeing it more so now that she is in APWorld in which she has to read and outline at least 30-40 pages per week. She also hates reading on the computer and would rather her teachers lecture in class, rather than having the students essentially teach themselves by reading the text on their own, with no accompanying lecture (which is what is currently happening in APWorld). So APWorld is causing her loads of stress.

She is definitely a math, science, and foreign language kid and never really has to study for those courses, but gets excellent grades. English, however, is a challenge for her. She took the ACT in September and struggled with the timing on some parts since she reads so slowly. (She had trouble finishing the reading and science sections in the practice exams.) Heck, sometimes the math section would give her problems because she would misread a word, like she would see the word “increasing”, rather than “decreasing” and thus get the wrong answer, which frustrated her to no end because she knew how to do every math problem on the practice tests and potentially could have gotten a perfect score on the math section. Anyhow, she somehow ended up with a 30 on the ACT (and plans to take it again–though truthfully, I am grateful for the 30, all things considered). She really worked hard to study for the ACT all summer and that definitely helped with the timing. But she definitely was disappointed with her score because she was doing much better on the practice tests and she knows the answers to the questions, (or so she says), but gets majorly tripped up on the timing for some sections, plus she misreads words which obviously does not help matters.

I have done a lot of reading on 2E kids and did see that sometimes with high IQ kids, the learning disability can be masked until high school or college. My concern is not necessarily to get her accommodations for high school or for the ACT, though I do think if she had extra time on the ACT she would get a near perfect score. My concern at the moment is college and making sure she gets accommodations if she indeed does have a LD and needs any accommodations. I am also concerned about her performance in future AP classes that require heavy, dense reading.

Interestingly enough, when she was IQ tested, she had very high scores in all areas but for processing speed. She received a fairly low score there. The psychologist who IQ-assessed DD speculated that the lower processing score was because gifted kids can be perfectionists and sometimes take too long to respond to questions because they want to make sure their answers are correct. I definitely do not think that was/is the issue with DD.

Issues/questions:
I know I need to have her professionally assessed for a learning disability. I would rather not go through the school for many reasons, so I am looking into private testing. One psychologist has quoted a price of close to 3K for comprehensive testing and I almost fell out of my chair when I heard that. Does that sound right? I guess I was expecting it to be more around the 1K area, but what do I know. Any comments/thoughts on the pricing? Is that typical?

Her “symptoms” are similar to dyslexia, but not completely on point, so I do think she needs very comprehensive testing since for all I know, it may not be dyslexia at all. I need to find out once and for all what is it especially to ascertain what, if anything, she could/should be doing to help herself deal with this–for example is there therapy for this or should she be using an index card to underline each sentence as she reads, etc, that kind of thing. I am fully aware that the more AP’s she takes, the more intensive reading she will have to do and I foresee issues down the road with that. I am also very concerned about her misreading words–that is definitely an issue and happens a lot.

I also know that we need to carefully select the colleges to which she applies, depending on what her LD issue is. Her plan is to go into engineering.

What else should I be doing? Any advice/thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

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I have 3 dyslexic kids. All of their symptoms have manifested differently, and they have all been impacted to different degrees. My assumption is that they are probably all gifted to a certain degree. They have never been formally tested, but siblings supposedly have fairly close IQs and our Aspie has had numerous tests done and his IQ is high. Their level of accomplishments (300 level classes in math and science in high school for the older kids) also suggests that they are most likely gifted. (We homeschool, so no school has ever been involved in evaluations.)

First and foremost, if you want results worth even $0.01, don’t choose someone by their cost. You absolutely need to find someone who is an expert in 2E testing. Otherwise your results won’t be worth anything. Btdt. The experience of the tester is absolutely vital. I cannot stress that enough.

My older kids who are dyslexic (my 5th grader’s info is probably less useful) are quite successful. Our oldest is a chemE who graduated with honors, and the younger is a physics and math double major with a 4.0.

The things that have allowed them to be successful are

1-not applying to quarter/trimester schools. They knew they couldn’t keep up with that reading pace.

2-making sure that they distributed reading intensive courses throughout their UG. (No history and literature courses the same semester.)

3-use audiobooks to read along with in order to help them with their reading pace. (There are audio readers for textbooks but they are not impacted enough that that option was ever pursued.)

4-actually worked directly on reading speed. (I’ll find the link where I describe what they did and post it.)

5-never turn in any extremely important writing assignment without asking someone else to proofread for spelling. (Autocorrects can definitely lead them astray! They have learned to look up definitions vs relying on suggestions. ). At work, people have learned not to ask our ds to submit the notes from meetings. :wink:

Which brings me to a question. Is she a good speller? I ask bc all three of mine are horrific spellers. Learning foreign languages is supposed to be incredibly difficult. It was true for our younger son. Not true for our oldest, but we lived abroad for 2 yrs and he became fluent as a child and I think that might be the difference (though he surely struggled with spelling in that language.) Your point about her being good in foreign languages makes me wonder what else might be going on.)

Slow processing speeds can be a serious issue. Our Apsie’s processing speeds are extremely, extremely low, as low as in the 1st-max 18th percentile (depends on which test results you look at.)

I hope you find answers to your questions. Strongly encourage your Dd to develop coping strategies bc they will benefit her her entire life.

ETA: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19252759/#Comment_19252759

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I have a D with significant dyslexia/reading issues. She was identified very early due to delayed language skills, and was therefore tested within the public school system. Twice I went outside the schools for independent testing. It was the best thing I ever did for her. I think I paid $1,500-1,800 in 2008 and then a lesser amount for somewhat less testing a few years later. This was in Wiilmette (north Chicago). Some insurances will pay; ours did not.

We used the same pyscho-ed consultant both times. He was great to work with and made recommendations which made a real difference. His reports were super thorough. We used them to get accommodations in school and then provided the report to her list of colleges while making her final decision. All said it was great documentation and they would provide all the same accommodations.

We tried very hard to review core requirements for prospective colleges. I don’t feel we did particularly well in choosing one with a more minimal core. Engineering may be an easier major to do that in; especially at a tech college. I would highly recommend you visit with the disability office of each potential school. Some are a more welcoming place than others. D’s has gone beyond my expectations and is wonderful.

D is college sophomore now. She loves her small LAC and is making it through, but the reading load is very challenging/difficult for her. If you feel you D could benefit from extended time or other accommodations, I would recommend you get that in place now, both for the current benefit and because the college will then be more likely to grant such.

Since your daughter is an auditory learner and slow reader, I would suggest she consider audiobooks through Learning Ally or Bookshare. This can make a real difference in helping lighten the “reading load”. Many/most students with dyslexia really struggle with foreign languages. Glad to hear this isn’t the case for your D.

Good luck in this journey.

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A verified processing speed disorder can serve as a basis for testing accommodations. SAT accommodations are said to be easier to come by then ACT. And sometimes if you don’t get documentation until the student is in hs, it can be harder to get the approval for extra time, as there is suspicion that you are trying to game the system. I do know families where this has happened. In terms of the price tag, $3k seems very reasonable. I guess it may depend on where you live, because I certainly have heard quotes of $5-6k.

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I have a 9 year old with autism, dislexia, and intellectual giftedness. We had him tested privately through a pediatric developmentalist and it was 2-3k. He did a very intensive summer reading program called Lindamood Bell. It was prohibitively expensive, like outrageous, but… we gained several years in reading level this summer. Your daughter being older I’m not sure if it would be as helpful, but I’m just not sure.

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Thank you for the reply! Excellent point about finding someone who is an expert in 2E testing. And excellent advice about the quarter/trimester schools!

Yes, she is a good speller and she definitely is super strong in languages. She has taken a little bit of Japanese as a 1st and 2nd grader and loved it and was good at it and has been taking Spanish since 7th grade and gets perfect scores on all tests, with a rare 97 or 98, plus is pretty good at speaking it and has an incredible memory. She loves it.

This is what confuses me because my perception of dyslexic kids is that there typically is an issue with foreign languages. I will say though, that her writing needs some work, not in terms of spelling and grammar, but in terms of her ability to put her thoughts into words sometimes. Having said this, she has had absolutely awful English teachers up until this year, so her writing may improve a lot with her current teacher who seems to be very good. Plus as much as her APWorld class is a lot of work, I do think that her teacher will prepare them well in terms of essay-writing.

I will read the thread that you posted as well…

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Keep in mind that a processing disorder is very often independent of dyslexia. The two don’t always occur together.

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This is the part that perplexes me the most. You are wise to get testing to discern exactly what she is dealing with. It is well worth it, and in our experience the cost sounds relatively reasonable, especially for an experienced person.

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If you are desiring accommodations you will need to get the complete testing done as her college will want those records if she is going to register with the disability office. It also may help to get her some accommodations in high school and establish that “record.” I will say my dyslexic was diagnosed at age 6 which is pretty young, but he had no trouble learning Spanish and is now fluent. His dyslexia (high IQ) resulted in very slow reading speed, although his comprehension wasn’t bad, and a total inability to write. He did finally learn how to capitalize, add periods, etc. in middle school and can write and read well enough that he has held his own in engineering school with spell check, the writing resource center and time and a half on tests.

Interestingly high IQ and dyslexia runs in our family for the past several generations. The kids great-great grandfather was dyslexic and their great uncle was a pioneer at Univac, but could barely read. It then skipped a generation and “got” my third son. Fortunately we know so much more in terms of “helping” kids adapt and cope. We were able to get my third reading at about 45% national average on standardized tests by the time he graduated high school. Talk about lop-sided ACT scores! Thank heavens engineering universities “get it.” Best wishes on your journey. As others have said you may not be dealing with dyslexia so get the testing done if you think she needs accommodations of some sort to be successful.

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Good point about processing speed versus dyslexia…I may have prematurely diagnosed her in my own head! I have called back the one psychologist with whom I spoke to ask her about her experience with 2E kids. On paper she seems very credentialed and she certainly spends a lot of time with the kids whom she assesses–so that part is good.

Interesting momofthreeboys about the high IQ and dyslexia running in your family! On the one hand, I feel like this is coming out of left field my with DD, but truthfully, I have always suspected something was not right–though it was not anywhere as bad as it is now. Really this semester (and seeing her issues with studying for and taking the ACT) have really highlighted her issues very clearly.

I appreciate all of the responses–I feel much better after having created this thread!

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You might try Hoagies and see if there any resources there are helpful.

And definitely agree about the processing speeds. Our Aspie is not dyslexic, but his reading speed is also not impacted (not quite sure how that works since his visual processing speeds are so low. ) His issues are complicated. It took a complete neuropsy evaluation with someone familiar with his issues to actually receive helpful info.

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It is not uncommon for dyslexics to be high IQ or have some highly developed skillset. My second son is not a “big” reader and could not learn phonics. Luckily his very skilled kindergarten and first grade teachers quickly clued in to the fact that he learned to read visually. Kids learn to read differently and since it was an impediment there was no reason to test him in elementary school. Slow processing speed is not in and of itself a recognized learning disability I believe, but to have a firm diagnosis and an understanding of how it impacts your D would be helpful I think. One of the tests (and testing is generally several different tests over a couple days generally) she would take would be the WISC and that will be helpful .

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I also have a 10th grade daughter who hates reading. She has generally tested as reading at grade level but has always hated it. I had psychoeducational testing done last year, including dyslexia testing, and I think it cost around $2,000. She also has lots of other issues like ADHD, depression, anxiety, etc and sometimes it’s hard to figure out what is causing what. But I applied for accommodations for her from the College Board and just got a response. They gave her 50% extra time but turned down the request for MP3 audio based on her scores on the Woodcock-Johnson test. She’s going to take the PSAT in a couple weeks as a sophomore so we will see how she does on that with the 50% extra time. As a side note, if your daughter’s textbooks have an online version, then you can use a free text-to-speech application to get audio capability. We can do that for my daughter’s World History textbook. Also you can get a membership at Learning Ally for audio versions of many textbooks. A membership requires proof of a documented print disability which is another thing that the psychoeducational report is good for. http://www.learningally.org/Browse-Audiobooks. Also the 504 coordinator at our school suggested that my D use her iPhone to record lectures and replay them. (Not that she does that but it was a good idea.)

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Just want to say that one of the smartest people I worked with had dyslexia and was also legally blind…but she completed her PhD.

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Not to sound like an idiot- but when was the last eye exam, physical, etc? I just heard a sad story (with a very happy ending) of a kid struggling to make the transition from middle school to HS and after several thousand dollars worth of tests and the parents prepared to turn over heaven and earth to identify the learning issues, turned out the kid needs glasses AND had a moderate thyroid issue which made concentrating difficult.

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Some really terrific posts here. Outstanding insights from those who have been through this and know what they’re talking about. Terrific thread. Thanks to those who have shared!

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Blossom: DD has regular yearly vision check ups and has had her thyroid checked and bloodwork done within the past year. She is a multi-sport athlete and is in great shape, thankfully, so I don’t think it is a physical issue–though it is excellent advice to rule out a such an issue, because you never know. Hereditary thyroid issues happen to run in my family, so I definitely stay on top of her doctor in terms of making sure he checks on her thyroid periodically. But your post just reminded me that she is due for her yearly physical and at that appointment I will also bring up these issues with her doctor just to see if he has any input or suggestions. Thank you for your suggestion!

And yes, marvin100, there have been extremely informative posts here and I have received some great advice. There is no one in my small social circle who has had LD experience, so I did not have anyone to bounce ideas off of.

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OP, my dad paid for my son’s testing with a psychologist who understood highly gifted/2E kids. It was very expensive and I could not have afforded it without his help. This was probably 7 or more years ago, and it was around $2700 or so. I’m sure it’s more now. It was worth it. My son has multiple LDs (math, writing, incredibly low processing speed) and received accommodations on standardized tests and community college classes during high school.

However, when I got him retested to prepare for college (colleges expect the testing to be within a year or so of when they are starting college), I simply could not ask my dad to pay for another session with this person. I looked and looked and finally found a pschology department at the local state university that did testing for community members for $400. Yes, they were not experts in giftedness, but the results were similar enough to get my son accommodations in college. He will actually go back to get tested in December on two other tests to find out if he has a language learning disability (he really struggles to learn foreign language, and hates it).

He tests well on tests of reasoning, such as the SAT, but struggles in many ways unlike your D.

Also, he was one of those auditory kids, listening to Charles Dickens, RL Stevenson, etc, by time he was 6, but could not read well. He has a vision disability which was finally found as an 11 year old, and corrected via surgery at 16, but it will never “hold”; his eyes slip back, and repeat surgery is probably in the future. Reading is problematic for him. College is hard for him, particularly at an Ivy League, but the disability office is fantastic, as is his advisor, and he’s keeping his head above water at the moment. I do recommend that in looking ahead to college, your D finds colleges with deep pockets and resources for kids with LDs if indeed she does have dyslexia.

Hope you find some answers.

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My H is one of the brightest people I have ever known. He was a “dog ate my homework” kid all through school when you could get away with that and deliver your paper orally instead. His dyslexia was diagnosed in law school by the girlfriend who preceded me; she was a clinical psychologist. He graduated second from the bottom of our law school class and took the bar exam EIGHT times, but he is now a respected and sought after attorney. His particular skill is in negotiating and reaching a consensus. I will say that, when I first met him, he could not spell his way out of a paper bag but as he has relied more and more on a computer, his spelling has improved. He still asks me how to spell a word (I, ironically, was a spelling bee champion) but he gets them correct more and more often.

Our two youngest sons are 2E but are both dyslexic and dyscalculic. The older one was diagnosed by my mother-in-law in K because she recognized the signs she’d seen in H but hadn’t understand in the 60’s. I fought very hard for him to get Orton-Gillingham starting in first grade when they usually try to delay till 4th. He progressed so quickly that he was switched to Wilson, which is a faster program. I looked at Lindamood-Bell but he was learning with Wilson, so we stuck with that. In his last set of testing, his processing speed was in the 6th %ile but his reading comprehension was off the charts. The youngest has worn glasses since pre-school. In 4th grade, I took him to the developmental optometrist, who changed up his prescription. He is extremely near-sighted in one eye and far-sighted in the other and the previous doctor averaged his prescription! After being fitted with bifocals and a course of vision therapy, he, too has off the charts reading comprehension but his processing speed is in the 2nd %ile.

Both of my sons are horrible at foreign language, as is my H. The older one attended a special ed school in middle school and, even there, amongst a class full of dyslexics and LD kids, he stank at Spanish. When he went back to district, he was exempted. The youngest took Latin for several years and did ok because part of it was history and culture.

I had to pull both of them from AP Euro and APUSH because they couldn’t keep up with the reading. We did use books on tape but neither of them wanted to handle the textbooks on tape. Youngest did AP Psych and got an A in the course, but a 3 on the test. This year, he’s taking APES and AP US Govt

Based on my experiences, I don’t think your D has dyslexia. I know lots of them and most are pretty poor at both spelling and foreign languages. She might have a processing disorder.

If you want to get accommodations for college, you need to start now. When my older, dyslexic son went to college, he had to produce a copy of his most recent IEP. It wasn’t a problem, he’d been classified since pre-school due to speech. I understand, however, that kids who don’t get accommodations until HS are sometimes judged because there are some people who try to game the system. I don’t mean you, your D sounds like a great many really smart kids, who get along just fine until they can’t any longer. I do think that you need to start the eval process immediately.

I will say that I always went only through the school and never had a problem. I got a book on how to interpret the results and discussed concepts I didn’t get with a psychiatrist friend. My kids got appropriate services, including out of district schooling for older dyslexic son and oldest boy, who is Aspie-lite. When you get the results, you need to look at the subscores carefully. Large discrepancies are the hallmarks of LD.

Good luck.

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Wow techmom99 and sbjdorlo thanks for sharing your stories–I am amazed and impressed by what your kids have had to deal with and overcome. I have learned so much from this thread. I now understand that there are so many variations in LD’s and how crucial it is to have suitable testing in order to isolate/identify the child’s issues in order to make the best plan to address them.

What incredible children you all have! Your stories are inspiring and have given me comfort that whatever my DD’s issues turn out to be, with adequate testing and evaluation, advance planning, and some parental persistence, I can help make sure DD is in the best position to achieve her goals.