dyslexia, SAT and admissions

<p>My dd (currently a junior in HS) has mild to moderate dyslexia. After testing, she was entitled to a pretty long list of accomodations but only asked for one: extra time on tests. It's been very helpful during high school and she's done as well as we could hope. Her school applied for extra time on the SAT on her behalf and it was granted. Here are my questions:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>After reading the posts I could find on dyslexia on CC, it appears some students with extended time are permitted to take the SAT over two days. This has never been mentioned at dd's school. Is this always an option? The PSAT was something like 6 consecutive hours and exhausting--splitting the SAT over two days would be great.</p></li>
<li><p>I believe it's revealed to the colleges when extended time is used. In light of this, should dd definitely address/reveal her dyslexia in her applications?</p></li>
<li><p>If the answer is 'no' to #2, what should dd think about in evaluating whether or not to reveal? By and large she gets grades of A and A minus in math and science and grades of B and B+ (one B-) in foreign language, English and history. I would expect this type of pattern to continue in college.</p></li>
<li><p>DD pefers to downplay her dyslexia and I don't know if she wants to request extra time in college. She won't be looking at schools that specifically aid LD students. Are most mainsteam colleges like high schools that will grant extra time if warranted or does this accomodation end?</p></li>
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<p>Thanks in advance for sharing any experience you have.</p>

<p>Given sufficient documentation, accommodation for LDs like dyslexia is generally available in college. If she doesn’t want to pursue it that’s certainly okay, but make sure she does not close herself off to the option if she finds herself struggling. A lot of students with LDs shoot themselves in the foot that way. What was manageable in high school is not always manageable in college.</p>

<p>We don’t take the SAT around here so I don’t know the answer to the rest of your questions.</p>

<p>I’m pretty sure there is NO mention of accommodations in reporting SAT scores, but you can double-check with college board and/or HS counselor & even ask them for something in writing.</p>

<p>My kids had some accommodation for the SAT due to their health issues–no extra time but did get their exam administered in a smaller room and because there were fewer people, it did end up being shorter from start to finish (didn’t have to wait for the last person to arrive, etc.) As far as I know, there was never any mention anywhere that they had any accommodations for testing.</p>

<p>Both of my kids DID mention their chronic health issues that they had overcome in HS somewhere in their college apps, to explain why their grades were lower than the test scores, because of their prolonged absences. I don’t believe it hindered their apps. Both kids applied to schools not particularly known for accommodations, but surprisingly to me, the larger schools seemed the most helpful when I spoke with them about accommodations (not the smaller school that claimed to be “personalized.”)</p>

<p>For college, we have had both kids register with the Disabilities Office at their U (before they accepted their U, I spoke with the disabilities office of each U they were considering to see how each school handled possible extended absences due to health issues–all but one promised to work with the student; one said they’d probably ask the student to withdraw, leave the U, forfeit housing, merit scholarships, etc.)</p>

<p>The Disabilities Office gave each of my kids a packet at the beginning of each term with a letter for each instructor, saying that the student was registered with the disabilities office. It was up to each kid to go & see each one (preferably at office hours) and talk with each one about any accommodations they MIGHT need in the class (for my kids, it was primarily making the instructor aware that due to health issues, they MIGHT have a prolonged absence and need to communicate with the instructor to keep up). There are other accommodations that were available, as appropriate for other students, including notetakers, etc.</p>

<p>My kids also prefer to downplay their health issues and be as “normal” as possible. I have no idea whether they actually took the letters to their profs, as they were instructed by me & the Disabilities Office, but they are both doing very well and both on track to graduate in 4 years.</p>

<p>There have been prior threads about whether or not to reveal LDs. For our kids, the GC & we thought it was important to explain why the test scores were significantly higher than the GPA, so it was mentioned as something the kids perservered over. Some kids prefer not to mention it & it’s tough to know how revealing or not affects admission and/or merit awards.</p>

<p>Let me see if I can your questions. First, the “standard” accommodation is time and a half. I have not heard of kids getting the tests over a two day period. That is extreme, and since you mentioned your daughter has mild-to-moderate dyslexia, she would not qualify even if it was available.</p>

<p>Do not worry about revealing or not. It happens and expecting it to happen will mean there are no surprises. Colleges don’t “look” down on that kind of thing. On the other hand, she doesn’t necessarily have to mention it like it’s the central topic of her main essay. Her transcript may reveal, for instance, that she has extra “learning centers” or resource room.</p>

<p>She should definitely want to request these same accommodations in college, especially extra time. But the process is completely different from HS. She will not have an IEP for instance. Her guidance counselor should reveal in her final write up that she had extra time. And your D should definitely get an evaluation again before college begins. These evaluations are requested by nearly all colleges to confirm the need for accommodations. Before college begins, you should also try to meet with their special support services. Getting more support in the beginning is really important. Your daughter may want to cut back eventually, but start with a lot at first to set the pace. It’s much easier than trying to add it later. One very important skill that she’ll need is self-advocacy. Colleges don’t pay attention to the needs like it was in HS, so speaking up is critical.</p>

<p>^agreed.</p>

<p>Side note: that is what most time accomidations are. The same still applys in college.</p>

<p>collage1, </p>

<ol>
<li><p>50% extra time is the standard accommodation offered, if any, to kids with dyslexia. If the dyslexia/processing speed issues are serious enough, The College Board and ACT are able to offer 100% extra time. This does extend the test to over 6 or 7 hours. They can offer the test to be taken over two consecutive days. However, what a staff psychologist at TCB told me was that they tend to reserve this for cases in which the disability is physical and not “just” cognitive. In my son’s case, his version of the disability is severe and all input and output are slow and fatiguing (he couldn’t read in 3rd grade, hand-copying a paragraph in 4th grade took him over an hour and wiped him out for the rest of the day, and if he does too much reading/writing in a compressed period of time, he gets exhausted and then gets a headache and can be out for days) and mask a brain that is close to the very top of the IQ distribution. We’ve never known the cause for this, but documented it starting in 2nd grade and presented what evidence there was from teachers, doctors and parents. It took a year to persuade TCB, though most of the time was spent waiting for them to evaluate information/respond, and got easier when we talked with the staff psychologist. They did ultimately grant 100% extra time that had to be taken over two days if the test was longer. But, part of what we needed to do was show that the issue was physical. I think other people have had different experiences. For my son, this took him from getting mid-40th percentile with no accommodations on standardized tests to >99th percentile on each of CR, Math and Writing. </p></li>
<li><p>As a result of a lawsuit under the American Disabilities Act, they cannot flag the scores or indicate in any way that the test was taken under special circumstances. This has led, unfortunately, to affluent parents trying to buy a leg up for their “neuro-typical” kids by buying opinions from testing psychologists. This in turn has led TCB and ACT to be initially skeptical of anything but the best documented claims and in particular of any claims of disability that were discovered in high school. I’m dealing with this now with my daughter, whose ADD/ADHD was not diagnosed until HS because she had an improperly diagnosed medical issue in which she lost most of her vision and, although we had her tested early on but apparently not very thoroughly, we focused on seeing if we could figure out with her vision and get it back, which we did. While TCB has granted 50% extra time, the ACT has not.</p></li>
<li><p>My general presumption would be against disclosing unless the disclosure is necessary to put the record in a favorable light. For all of the politically correct blather you hear in schools about different kinds of intelligences and wanting diversity, very few adults in the educational system (and fewer outside of it) actually believe that someone can simultaneously be very bright and have severe learning disabilities (as opposed to observable physical disabilities). I would meet with my son’s teachers at the start of every year or semester, having emailed them before a memo explaining that my son was simultaneously intellectually gifted and severely dyslexic and providing them with IQ and other scores and explanations of what they meant. It explained why he needed certain accommodations (that by the way were in his IEP) and what happened when he didn’t get them and what happened when he did. You could see the disbelief (despite the fact that I was showing them IQ scores, you could see them thinking “another overly-proud parent in an affluent town who wants extra privileges for his otherwise normal kid whom he thinks is really special”). My son is now a student at a top LAC, picked in part over some Ivies because they said they would be and have been flexible and accommodating with respect to his LDs. The Disabilities Services office emails each of his professors to tell them they have a kid to whom they should grant extra time on tests. He’s then responsible for meeting with his professors early in the term and working out the specifics of testing, etc. I met two of his professors at Parents Weekend. As an example of how people in education think about kids with LDs, each told me that they were concerned when they got the call from Disabilities Services because kids with LDs have traditionally not done well in their courses. They both expressed surprise (and satisfaction) that he’d gotten the highest score (or about the highest in the class, not sure which) on both the first and second mid-terms (they seem to have two) but they were not expecting it. [His performance has continued, though he told me that one of the professors appeared not to like him because the professor handled dealing with the extra testing time in a way that was inefficient for the professor. However, the same professor gave him an A+ final grade for the course.]</p></li>
<li><p>If your daughter needs the accommodations to perform, she should not feel shy about requesting them. My son’s self-image is that he is among the smarter people he knows and that he is just plain dyslexic. That is part of who he is. He would prefer to be non-dyslexic, but that is just who he is and he is not embarrassed by it. And he cannot easily show his intelligence and knowledge in an academic context without certain accommodations. Interestingly enough, the head of Special Ed at his HS told me that he was the poster boy for SpEd at his school because the SpEd caseworkers could now go to teachers who were resistant to following IEPs (and there were quite a few) and say, “Remember ShawSon. He was really struggling to keep up with the work without accommodations but with accommodations, he was the top student in the class.” [He had other accommodations in HS beyond longer test times]. One of his favorite teachers told us later that she did not believe initially that ShawSon needed accommodations (and certainly not double time) and he struggled early on in her class. But, he convinced her over time and she wrote “ShawSon is a permanent part of my story as an educator…a reminder of how flexibility and understanding, without lowering standards, can really make a difference” and he finished the second half of the year with an A+ on every test she gave. So, although your daughter need not think about others when she asks for accommodations, but she may be helping others in doing so.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>My son cannot listen and write at the same time. His LAC pays for note-takers for him (kids in his classes). He’s not embarrassed about that either. They seem to pick super-organized girls with really neat hand-writing, though they don’t always have the same level of understanding that ShawSon has. In high school, he had a similar friend – super-organized and knew when everything was due and all the requirements, something my son was much worse at at the time – and she figured out how smart he was. So, she would coach him on what he needed to do and he would explain to her how to solve the hardest problems, etc. Very symbiotic. She was a delightful, bright and ambitious kid – currently a happy student at an Ivy – who could get a monosyllabic teenage boy to remain on the phone for an hour and a half. It doesn’t appear that his note-takers have yet figured out the potential symbiosis. </p>

<ol>
<li> Ditto to limabeans comments. Self-advocacy becomes perhaps the critical skill.</li>
</ol>

<p>Generally speaking, testing over 2 days is the case when double time is approved. My experience with this is 4 years old, but recently a friend told me that 1 1/2 time is pretty standard and approved quite easily with the basic documentation, but requests for double time are scrutinized by the CB much more carefully and often denied. </p>

<p>As far as I know, accommodations are NOT noted on the score reports. Also, as far as disclosing, we chose to have our GC mention the fact that though our D had LD/ADHD (504, not IEP) she had persevered and accomplished far beyond what others might have expected. It put everything in context. As for college, we investigated what the Disabilities Offices at each school required in terms of documentation, and after she had been accepted and made her decision she submitted the required documentation to support her request for accommodations at the college. Her request was approved and she was granted 1 1/2 time on any in-class written exam, and the opportunity to write such exams (if she chooses) on a computer. She has the obligation to inform her professors (via a letter generated by he Disabilities Office) at the beginning of each class and has never had any problems. She has not needed, though it is available, any additional services of the Disabilities Office, though she has not hesitated to contact them with questions etc. Good luck.</p>

<p>Excellent post Shawbridge. I’m just beginning the HS journey, but our Sped crew also looks at my son as a “poster boy”…from diagnosis at 6, not reading and not writing in 3rd grade to a top student now in 9th utilizing his accomodations as needed. A self advocator who has high self esteem and is driven, would prefer not to have dyslexia but copes and has had helped a few teachers (non Sped) understand what this LD really means. I hope the balance of the journey plays out. OP, I can’t add anything more to Sawbridge’s post, but will most likely take that approach.</p>

<p>What if, as someone above mentioned, the transcript will disclose because it will say “Resource Room/Basic Skills, etc.”? The initial answer I have gotten from the school is that this can’t be changed because the IEP delineates between time in spec ed and % of time main-streamed, and if they are in the Resource Room, it will be reflected as such. I’m really interested in everyone’s opinion, esp. Shawbridge’s.</p>

<p>My D is dyslexic, has also been the spec ed “success” story, and has made incredible strides in the last 18 months. She is in 7th grade and I’m having a real mental tug-of-war about if this is worth fighting over the next year, before she starts HS. It’s a very small school system and I think there’s a fair to good chance I could get it reflected differently on her transcript. They have a 7 period day and she definitely will perform best with 5-6 classes; the other 1-2 being in effect, a study hall.</p>

<p>Do you think it’s worth fighting to keep it off the transcript and if that won’t happen, should it be addressed by the student in other parts of the application?</p>

<p>I definitely agree with Shawbridge that gen ed teachers (and adults in general) seem to feel that “hey, if they can get A/B’s, then they shouldn’t need accommodations.” Sigh, even <em>if</em> they wouldn’t perform at that level without the accommodations.</p>

<p>Agree with the other posters that self-advocacy is key. Your D’s decisions to use or not to use accommodations is hers alone, and she will probably sort out what works best for her as time goes by–there is no right or wrong answer, only what works best in your/her particular situation.</p>

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<p>Actually, surprisingly few people believe that severe physical disability and high intelligence can co-exist as well.</p>

<p>syr, can you get your D in “general ed” study halls, or does she need resources only available in the resource room setting?</p>

<p>We don’t really have gen ed study halls–they have experimented with them for a very few people–takes the ok of administration to get into one and it is offered only 1 period a day–for ex., study hall might be 3rd period–if that doesn’t work in one’s schedule, then it isn’t even an option.</p>

<p>At this point, because she is still completing an Orton-Gillingham type reading program, she does need the resource room services. I’m not sure that will be true in HS, but if the only study hall available is in the resource room, that’s where she’ll have to be. The spec ed teacher she has now will probably (hopefully) be her HS spec ed teacher-of-record and the resource room teacher. She is the best teacher I have ever encountered, and this is child #3. So, that really is the best place for her to be for “study hall” period–but my gut tells me it would be better not to be reflected as “spec ed” on her transcript.</p>

<p>syrstress, middle school transcripts will not matter at all. HS transcripts will matter to the extent that schools are judging the difficulty of the schedule she took. My son’s transcript had “Integrated English” his first year along with Freshman English, “Individualized Writing Skills” along with Sophomore English (though a little bit of explanation below), “Speech and Language Therapy” in junior and senior years, and Writing Workshop (a non-remedial but lower level English course (more below) junior year, and Writing and Technology senior year. One could easily see the SpEd stuff in the transcript. We pulled him out of English and Math starting second semester to do partial homeschooling, but the Writing Workshop teacher worked with him in a quasi-independent study in junior and senior years (Writing and Technology as well as Writing Workshop). I think they saw his overall strong performance and high scores on SAT CR and Writing as well as on the SAT Literature test. As head of the homeschool part of the program, I explained who he was and why we did what we did. So, it is not clear that having that label is a problem if your daughter performs in all of the other areas. I suspect any slip-up would be interpreted in light of the LD as an indication that she couldn’t handle our work at Too Good for Mere Mortals University.</p>

<p>^^Thanks for the input. I appreciate it. It was the HS transcript which was my concern, and whether we should put any effort in the next year (knowing how long it takes school systems/spec ed to do anything) into trying to remove traces of the “spec ed” label from the HS transcript. It’s really difficult to try to make decisions when there are so many un-knowns 4-5 years into the future. It’s part of who she is, and I think she’s pretty comfortable with that (as much as possible for a 13 year old). I am very impressed with her “ownership” of her education and her growing self-advocacy skills. At the end, I think she’ll be of the variety “this is me and if they don’t want me, I don’t want them” type.</p>

<p>My son also switched his schedule to have a resource room/study hall 2nd semester of 9th grade. He had a reading/writing intensive schedule and was struggling to get his homework all done everyday on top of his sport. The extra 50 minutes really helps him keep up with the load and all he gave up was an elective class not necessary for graduation. The RR will be reflected on his transcript, but I’m hoping since all his other classes are rigorous that people evaluating his transcript can connect the dots. He went in and asked for the schedule change all on his own. I didn’t know until I got an e-mail from the guidance office asking me if I was “OK” with this which of course, I was. I’m a real whatever will be will be person, and more concerned that my son not get shuffled into a path by the school and allowing my son to shuffle his own path. College will be what college will be several years down the road and knowing S3 he’s not shooting for the Too Good for Mere Mortals University, he’d rather go to a Big 10 or big football school with engineering. Junior year is a big year at all schools. I’ll just cross the college bridge after that year!</p>

<p>Shawbridge and runnersmom are correct. The time-and-a-half extended time (the most commonly used extended time accomodation) is doen in one day, the double time is done in two. </p>

<p>from the CB website:

Additional information about extended time can be found at:
[Extended</a> Time](<a href=“http://professionals.collegeboard.com/testing/ssd/accommodations/time]Extended”>http://professionals.collegeboard.com/testing/ssd/accommodations/time)
[Other</a> Accommodations](<a href=“http://professionals.collegeboard.com/testing/ssd/accommodations/other]Other”>Other Accommodations – Accommodations | College Board)</p>

<p>jym, my understanding was that the amount of extra time and whether the test is offered on one day or multiple days can be separate decisions. I could be wrong about this but I think it is consistent with the quote you provided – on the link you provided, it lists accommodations including, “Multiple day (may or may not include extra time)”. Documentation for one is about the kid’s processing or input-output speed and the other over issues of stamina/fatigue. For example, someone with cerebral palsy could work relatively quickly but have very low stamina and just needs to split the work into multiple days while a very slow processor could work for hours without a fatigue problem kicking in. If I remember correctly, at one point in our conversation, my son was asked to choose whether he wanted 50% extra time over two days or 100% extra time on one day. [He said both.]</p>

<p>Technically I think you are correct, shawbridge, but if there are no other accomodations requested, if a student is given time and a half, they’ll typically do the SAT in one day. If they have doubletime, they do it over two days. If they request (or have) other accomodations (eg frequent breaks, etc) thats a whole other kettle of fish. It gets complicated, and they have to be sure they have proctors and space available at the sites where the accomodated tests are offered. The logistics must be challenging.</p>

<p>One other thing that may be a factor is whether the school your kid attends is willing to offer the testing in the manner of the accommodation granted. My kids’ HS said that they didn’t have anyone who was willing to administer the testing over two days, so if that was something granted our kid would need to find another school that would offer it. We didn’t request or get additional time, so not sure what would have happened if we needed it. Our kids really wanted to test at the HS where they attended rather than go to another HS (tho both have had to take tests at other HSs, when they don’t sign up early enough).</p>

<p>jym, I can only speak on the basis of my conversations with TCB with regard to my son’s case, but it was clear that in his case, TCB preferred to do 100% extra time in one day rather than two. The shift to a second day was by no means automatic when they granted 100% extra time. They wanted different documentation for the need for time and the need for extra days.</p>

<p>From all I’ve read, there is a significant amount of documentation required to get a 2nd day as well as more time. I have read of several folks who have gotten it while others were denied by College Board.</p>