I started a thread in the Parents Forum about EA/ED Deferrals/Rejections from last year and how things have turned out.
If you are rejected or deferred this year, you might want to check this thread out. Most posts include the original EA/ED school, where the student wound up, and how happy they are today. The results may surprise you.
It’s grown to about 40 or so posts now…
<p>Yeah that's a good thread, people should check it out.</p>
<p>I'm actually not upset about my ED rejection. I know there are lots of great places for me. I hope everyone else knows that to be true for them as well. :)</p>
<p>Thanks for starting that thread. It was great. However, you might want to keep bumping it up. As I wait for my decision from Yale, looking at that thread has provided a lot of comfort.</p>
<p>Good luck, Lindsey. My D was one of the ones who didn't make it into Yale....</p>
<p>Thanks. I've read her story. It's very encouraging to hear that she's happy. Smith is on my list as well.</p>
<p>TheDad, What do you know about the "edge" that deferrals might have over those with a single app in the regular round? (I started a thread possibly on a different forum, but can't find it now, & I'd like to ask a parent, anyway.) It seems to me that deferrals get a chance to improve their apps that those with a single attempt don't get. On the one hand, early apps get to submit the same package as the RD'ers do; but in addition, they get to realize, "Oh, gee, let me add this...and this...and this --" all kinds of supplements, letters, pleas from all kinds of people that are not options for the rest of us. I've heard of plenty of people who get in by "realizing" that they should have done it right the first time, but it seems to me that it's really about piling on. I don't mean to sound bitter, if I do. (No word yet.) What I mean is, Gee, maybe that's an advantage to applying Early. If you think you have a good chance at deferral, you can submit a "second" (magnified) application, to look better than your competitors in the same round. I should have thought of that.</p>
<p>Classicist, you may have an edge as a deferral but it depends on why the adcom didn't go for your app in the first place as to whether or not you can signficantly improve it.
If you can call the regional rep that read your app, you may get some insight. I think the whole "improve your app" theory is mostly wishful thinking. Obviously, if you win a major award or get a 150-point increase in your SAT's, your app will be viewed in a new light. But most of the suggestions I've read boil down to tinkering around the edges and I don't think will generally have much effect. From the numbers I've seen, Deferrals have no worse a chance than RD applicants; it depends on the school, though, because some colleges simply defer everyone they don't Accept, so a Deferral doesn't mean that much. I don't think added recs that really don't say anything new or letters that say I reallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreally want to go here have that much effect.</p>
<p>Thinking about my D's EA app, in retrospect, I wish we had had a better understanding for what makes a good essay, besides being well-written. Topic selection is critical and I think she misfired on her Yale app...though her new set of essays didn't get her into Stanford or Harvard either.</p>
<p>All fwiw.</p>
<p>TheDad, Thanks. But I've read a lot of true-life stories in the Parents forum about D's and S's that got deferred, then accepted -- based on extras mailed in to the school. (I wouldn't remember which colleges those were, in the cases where it did make the difference.) I think on maybe the Princeton board the other day, somebody had an action plan as to how many extras would be sent in, & their content. I don't remember: it looked like a 10 or 12 point strategy -- very aggressive. What I'm trying to say is -- whether or not the adcom looks favorably, or much more favorably, on the "extras" is not the ultimate question. It's the matter that the deferrals simply have an opportunity to be seen in an expanded light that those of us who try <em>once</em> do not have: there seem to be no limits on the materials in the follow-up period. I mean, I don't see a "deferral policy" on any college website. (If deferred, you can only send in this.... etc.) Do I get to send in a 3rd, 4th, 5th recommendation? Extra phone calls from coaches, advisors? Extra graded papers, beyond what I sent in during the <em>first</em> round? No way!</p>
<p>A thought onEA and deferrals. a college admissions officer shared with me that the EA/EDpooltends to be a stronger applicant pool, so if in researching the school's profile, you do not fit comfortably within the middle 50% toward the higher 50%, not only will you probably not be accepted, but you stand the chance of not being deferred. Bottom line, if you're not a strong EA/ED applicant, apply RD.</p>
<p>Classicist, in short, you're right about the extra chance via EA/ED deferral. </p>
<p>I, too, have read the stories on the Parents Forum and indeed I have been on this board as they revealed themselves for each of the past two years. I've also seen the total numbers from the board as a whole for two cycles of December-April. Reversing a deferral is not the way to bet; yes, <em>some</em> people who do all that stuff will get in, most won't. By a large majority, anywhere from 5-1 to 20-1.</p>
<p>EA/EDpooltends to be a stronger applicant pool,</p>
<p>This is a common misconception. There are many reasons that students do not apply ED/EA and being a stronger candidate is not one of them. If it were the case most of the deferred applicants would be accepted in the RD round where the fact is the majority of the deferrals do get rejected because of a strong RD pool. This RD pool can b e stronger in grades, EC's and may have factors different from the type of cookie cutter applicant that seems to fill the ED pool (most applicants are the same, in terms of scores, grades but remember the college is trying to build a class).</p>
<p>With the cost of attendance hovering around $40,000 + per year many families (maybe with the exception of the very rich who can write thier check, and hte very poor who will get close to a free ride in a heavily endowed need blind/meet 100% need with grants and scholarships) have to compare packages, because after the purchase of their home this will be their biggest outlay of cash.</p>
<p>In addition, many people do not apply RD because they find that they can be happy in more than one place so they do not want to commit or be bound to attending one school. At the beginning of my daughter's senior year, i would have bet the house that she would have applied ED and attended Amherst, because that was all I heard. Then it was all about Barnard. She had 7 schools that she felt if she had gotten in to any one and only one of them she would have been happy to attend. In the end she there was not clear cut choice for ED not because she wasn't a strong applicant because she got accepted to all seven schools which she applied. Once the admissions letters came, Amherst, Barnard and Williams looked different once she thought about the prospect of spending 4 years there and she ended up going to the school I least expected her to attend but she absolutely loves, Dartmouth. </p>
<p>ED is really designed for those who feel that this is their absolute first choice, now it used as a mechanism to hedge one's chances of getting admitted and most admissions committees see this trend. In the end deferrals will have a 10% chance of being admitted, if your feel that the ED school is the only one for you, then fight for it but invest all of your time on this one school and also know that it is going to be an uphill battle.</p>
<p>The Dad, examples please. (Good essay topics, turn-off topics, etc.)
(And how did she "misfire" on Yale?)</p>
<p>Classicist, her main essay was about a ballet class, pointe partnering class to be precise. She thought that she was avoiding any whiff of a "my big game" essay, one of the deadliest after "how my dying relative inspired me" or "how I'm a product of two cultures." It wasn't focused on a big performance or anything like that. And we didn't have a third-party read it until after it had gone in...no time. When we did, the former admissions officer said that for the typical reader, not knowing the nuances of ballet, it would <em>read</em> like a my big game essay. I still don't quite get it but I've learned to take advice from people who know their stuff. D's supplemental essay was a "why I like Yale" essay that in retrospect hit all sorts of off-tone notes.</p>
<p>D's revised batch of essays for her other apps--mainly but not all using Common App--were on her experience at the Renaissance Faire and handling a Roman coin at a coin dealer's booth and wondering if a Roman slave girl had handled it in the market and on the dynamics of her sophomore Honors English class, an essay that was wry, perceptive, and showed an intellectual side without being braggy or boasting. The admissions officer who was our sounding board <em>loved</em> both of them and said they would have been much better EA. Both were much closer to being unique. (But note, they didn't get her into H or S, either, though I remember being underwhelmed by her essay in the Stanford packet, the note to her future roommate, which I regard as something of a trap essay.)</p>
<p>But overall, Yale being the first cut, all of D's subsequent apps had the benefit of that experience and were much stronger, imo. I would have been surprised if she had not been accepted to any non-HYPSM school, including places she didn't apply to such as Brown, Columbia, or Georgetown. Not her fault that three of the schools she applied to were in the most selective five. :(</p>
<p>TheDad,
Now I am really worried. One of my 2 essays was on a dance form (not ballet). But I didn't write it as a technical piece (sounds as if your D did). I wrote it as if to someone who had never seen that dance form before, & discussed what it did for me. I would not describe my essay as stunning, but I would describe it as self-revealing & vivid. My other essay described a very different performing art & was better, I think, because it showed a risky side of me that would never appear anywhere else in my app., including in recs of teachers who have known me for 4 yrs. One of my concerns is that I am so intellectual/cerebral that I felt that it was necessary for colleges to see my artistic & non-intellectual side. I have no idea if they made or broke my app.</p>
<p>I take it by "The Big Game" essay, you mean something that would appeal to football insiders or something? Or something that couldn't be universally related to?</p>
<p>What I read (in a book about college app essays), & would like some confirmation of-- if you know, is that adcoms don't like to see topics they view as frivolous or superficial, even if the style of the writing shows the applicant to be a great writer. I thought I saw on one of the Ivy forums in CC that someone who got accepted wrote an edgy essay about something that might even have been silly -- & with no insight into the applicant except for the creativity of the writing.</p>
<p>Do they want to get to know you as a person, or as a writer, or is either OK? (I obviously ask because I have other essays to write & could revise the ones I have for other colleges.)</p>
<p>Your D did not get into H,Y, or S? But got into where?
(P.S. I like the Roman coin essay idea!)</p>
<p>TheDad, I forgot to ask: What do you think was wrong with her Why I Like Yale essay? (You said "off-tone notes." That could be anything.) When I answer that question of a C or U, I talk about the subjects I envision studying & the opportunities in the various majors, the atmosphere of the campus, & sometimes how I plan to participate in e'c's. I hope that's not "off-tone." But maybe you could give an example of what should not be mentioned.</p>
<p>Thedad, having read many, many "successful" HPY essays, I have to say that the essays have little impact on the decision. If the essay is on a questionable subject that raises the adcoms' flags, or if it so poorly written, it can be a big negative, or if it brings up a truly unique, phenomonable attribute about the candidate, or if the candidate is a wonderful writer that may give someone a tip, but nearly all of the essays I have read are pretty run of the mill. For all the hype about essays, when you figure how much time is generally spent evaluating an app, there just is not time to give it much weight.</p>
<p>In my opinion, there were several issues with your D's app. I think if she had started with that high SAT score, it would have made a big difference. If she also got that Yale app in the same week the app was hot off the presses that would have upped her odds. She would have then beat the unexpected avalanche of apps. Unfortunately, as the adcoms press on through the stacks, it becomes more and more difficult to get an accept especially when the stacks are getting larger and larger. </p>
<p>Also her main EC which is her ballet is not one that many schools care about unless they have a dance troupe that has someone with a link to admissions. The big question the schools ask as they view an app is "What can you do for us?" And someone looking for off campus dance opportunities does not interest them. The orchestra is a card she probably should have played more prominently, as schools are very interested in someone who is going to continue with the instruments. Many of these virtuoso musicians that are engineering and premed majors end up contributing zip to the music in the college as they turn their attentions to getting top grades in those disciplines. A tape and a visit to the orchestra, strong interest, may have tipped the odds. And rightfully, as your D currently is active in her college orchestra. Just my opinion.</p>
<p>Jamimom, I do wish that she had had the high SAT score for the initial ED read, just bad luck that she was horribly sick for the November test date...you have a good memory. I'm still bemused that the difference between a 1480 and a 1580 can be significant but as the results rolled in, it really seemed as if there was a true "bump" in odds around 1540. And you're right, her app was submitted toward the end of the cycle when they were swamped. And the app as a whole wasn't focused on any "What can you do for us?" facet. However, her French horn would have been insignficant at Yale, where the orchestra is dominated by Music majors and/or graduate students; her ballet recognition would have been a reflection on Yale via New Haven Ballet, literally across the street. So to that degree, neither would have been a strong hook for Yale.</p>
<p>Of course--and I don't recall how public I was this at the time--even then <em>I</em> was dithering as to what I thought the best fit for her was. Hard to turn down Yale if offered but Smith had been just so impressive and the Yale administrator who took us to lunch and answered questions about Yale paused when she asked what other schools D was interested in and said that some close relative (daughter?) had gone to Smith and it was a very very good school...not the "Oh, it's a fine back-up" response I would have expected her to say. Given how D is doing at Smith and how happy she is, it may be just as well that that cup passed her by...all of us are pretty much against choosing schools on the basis of "prestige" but that would have been a hard test of principle.</p>
<p>Classicist, "off-tones" were things that were, well, superficial. Like the architecture and the inverted fountain, the input she got from an ex-spouse-of-friend administrator which, while glowing, may have conveyed a "insider sense of entitlement" that rankled, etc.</p>
<p>My D's ballet essay wasn't a technical piece but a "why she loved pas de deux class" and was filled with sensory detail and subjective reaction...LOL, I remember the negative about "guy sweat soaking my leotard as I slide down from my partner's shoulders."</p>
<p>While I think they want an essay that is well-written, I think the emphasis is on knowing our as a person. I've mostly gotten out of the essay reviewing business here on CC--too little reward for too much time--but once you get past the essays that have a bad attitude or are illiterate, one of the next biggest problems imo are those that are stilted, formal, and detached. Too "English class writerly" and therfore fake.
One of my favorites was a quirky one by Chasgoose (now at Yale) about his relationshipe with Gertrude Stein.</p>
<p>I tend to endorse your strategy of, if you are often seen as intellectual/cereberal, showing off a different side as well...the old "well-rounded" thing. But what do I know in terms of how it actually works?</p>
<p>Oh, well. Guess I'll have to get myself ready for Ivy rejections. I did write about what the dance form does for me (subjective reaction that your D did, just not quite, well, so earthy). Nevertheless, my responses were also connected to my passion for music, as music is such a defining aspect of this dance form, & music is a huge e.c. for me. If they just don't like who I am, or who your D is, there's nothing much that can be done about that. They say they want to know you as a person, so you put yourself out there, & then they decide you're not the kind of person they'd like to enroll??? Hmmmmm. Didn't think this was a personality contest, but I guess it is. Bummer.</p>
<p>Classicist, I wouldn't view it as much of a personality test as they're building a class and they want all sorts of different things. Yale, for ex, could build statistically equal classes three times over from their application pool. To <em>some</em> extent, it's a crap shoot, with maybe 20 percent of a class being "automatics."</p>
<p>I don't think my D felt too great after her Yale rejection and it was a L O N G wait until even late February when she got an Early Evaluation letter from Wellesely to take some pressure off. </p>
<p>But the bottom line is, if you look at the Reject/Defer thread in the Parents Forum, most students do wind up pretty happy at where they end up. For ego's sake I could still grump but in terms of the educational experience my D is having, neither she nor I would complain.</p>
<p>Jamimom, I respect what you say about ballet & applicant's "value" to college. But I never personally thought that e.c.'s were mostly about what you will likely contribute to the college in that exact same arena -- unless that's an athletic playing spot of some kind. For classical music, for example, it depends on your instrument. If it's harp or tuba, they could actually need you. Ditto for a baroque instrument if they have an Early Music group. I don't think they would just dismiss accomplished ballerinas, or (TheDad) accomplished musicians who did not declare an interest in a music major. I thought that one of the reasons they look at e.c.'s is that it shows a lot about your ability to maintain discipline, to stick with something -- & especially, of course, if you continue to improve & have done it since the beginning of time. It says a lot about your ability to focus & to sacrifice, if you've pursued this e.c. for quite some time, i.m.o. Also, accomplishment in an art has a bearing on your academics & intellectual skills, including in college. </p>
<p>Now separately, yes, IF your stellar e.c. is ALSO of need & value to the college, well you'd have an edge, naturally, over a ballerina. Or maybe I'm just too logical.</p>