My son is very interested in ND and it is his #1 choice. He is a junior in a Jesuit high school and is doing well. He currently has a 4.1 GPA (3.85 unweighted) and recently scored a 36 on the ACT. So far he has only had 2 APs (this year), but has taken a good number of honors classes. Next year he will have 4 APs. Part of the issue is that his school does not offer AP until sophomore year (only one that year). So options are limited compared to some of our local public high schools.
He is involved in a number of EC’s including drama club, retreat leader, NHS, Freshman and JV Lacrosse, Freshman Cross Country, Piano, Summer Swim Team, Church Youth Group. Has done quite a bit of service including two service trips with the school. He also has done some video production for a non profit to help raise money.
We are trying to decide whether he should apply EA. I have heard that it is more competitive to apply EA. What is the upside of EA application vs RD, other than knowing decision sooner? If they offered ED, he would have applied in a heartbeat!
I think his stats are high enough to apply REA, assuming he does well this semester. Have you visited? I would recommend that, and then make sure he really thinks about and puts a lot of effort into his “Why ND” essay. Congratulations to him - seems like a great candidate.
@WineLover checkout admissions.nd.edu I did some numbers crunching for you. Based on the admissions data for Fall 2017 entering class if you applied restricted early action (REA) the acceptance rate was 25% (1636 out of 6598 REA applicants were accepted) and 1047 of the accepted students, 64%, enrolled. That’s a high yield!. That represents over 50% of the freshman class, which consisted of 2050 students. If you applied Regular Decision the acceptance rate was only 15%. Only 2064 students out of 12968 students who applied Regular Decision got accepted. If you look at the total numbers, there were 19,566 total applicants and a total of 3,700 students were accepted, which is an overall acceptance rate (REA and RD combined) of 19%. Based on these numbers your son should definitely apply REA. I wouldn’t worry that he only has 2 APs, as the ND admissions officer for the territory where you son’s high school is located is familiar with the school and how it does not offer much APs during first three years. They will see on his application (he has to list his courses for senior year$ that he will be taking 4 APs for senior year and they will have enough information from his first three years of high school (plus standardized test scores, Letters of recommendations, essays, etc…) to render a decision. Good luck!
Yes, REA application cycle is very competitive. If your son has his ND application in optimal shape by the REA deadline, he might want to go for it. The overall quality must not be compromised due to earlier timing, though. @trackmbe3 is right with respective numbers, however it is important to keep in mind that sports recruits (and ND has many of them!) and other hooked students all tend to apply REA, which is influencing the numbers. DD applied RD last year and we are glad she did so, as her application was ND focused and in much better shape by then. Best of luck!
Hi, thanks for the all the input so far! To answer @suzy100, we have not yet made an official campus tour, however he has been to many football games over the years with his Dad (not an alum). His late grandfather, however, was an alum, and that is why he and his dad are such big fans. We do have a trip planned this summer to tour the campus and looking forward to that!
Also, thanks to @trackmbe3, for the number crunching. I hadn’t even taken the time to look at those numbers, so that is very helpful to know.
The only worry I have with applying REA is that I have heard that there are not many deferred and that most are either accepted or rejected. Does anyone know what the stats are on REA outcomes with regard to defer vs. reject?
The best advice I would give you is to call your regional admissions counselor and give them your son’s stats and ask what they recommend. They will tell you whether they would advise an EA or RD application. Just my opinion, I would guess they would say your son could apply EA. The 36 ACT is significant, if you look at published stats, very few students score 35/36 on the ACT. His GPA is where it needs to be so far. And the above poster is right, the admissions person looking at his app will know the story of his high school (that only so many AP classes are offered etc). My daughter’s Catholic high school was the same way vs our public schools. They look at what is available to the student and how much they take advantage of it. They know that different situations exist at different high schools. If you look at ND’s Common Data Set, they show that rigor of high school classes is the most important thing they look at on the app, so your son is smart to pursue 4 APs senior year. I think his EPs are great, a nice mix of arts, sports and service including some leadership. I would advise him to spend a lot of time and research on the Why ND essay. Be specific about programs (both academic and EC) that he would pursue there. ND is really big on service and what you will contribute to the school and how you will use the resources they will provide you to make the world a better place.
As to the deferrals, the below link shows number of kids deferred for class of 2021. I could be wrong but my understanding is that for some reason ND didn’t publish that number for the class of 2022. You might be able to ask the admission counselor that question too.
Again thanks for all the great info here. I just learned that my son will attend a college fair this week and ND will be there. Is this a good opportunity for him to ask the questions about REA and RD? Would it be helpful for him to have his scores and transcript on hand in case there are questions?
I would not have him bring his scores and transcripts. They will see those when he applies. Be sure his admissions counselor gets to know him beyond the numbers. As mentioned @waitingmomla mentions those essays are critical. All the kids who apply have excellent stats–they want to see who he is and since they don’t interview those essays and his recommendations are key.
I would have your son keep the conversation casual at the college fair. Have him introduce himself, tell him he’s very interested in ND, ask the man or woman if he/she is the regional AO, and then get his/her email address and just ask if it’s OK to contact him/her with questions.
First of all, it’s important to sign up if there is a sign in sheet or hand out your sons’s contact info to be put on the mailing list. Colleges don’t like stealth applicants (I.e., those who apply without ever having had any recorded contact with the school). Go on the website and signup for the schools mailing list. This is an easy way of showing interest. Sometimes the person representing the school at the college fair is an alumni and not a representative from the admissions office. Your son (not you) can ask questions to whoever is at the table. But even if their is an admissions officer there any questions or interactions there will likely be forgotten and does not substitute for reaching out separately by email or phone with your son’s questions. Contact should be made to the regional admissions officer for your local area because that person will be the first screener of your son’s application. Emails and records of phone calls to a regional admissions office are usually put in students files.
My oldest applied EA, (middle did not apply), youngest RD. They were completely different candidates, but both (thankfully) accepted. The EA was MUCH less waiting. My RD kid lost some interest in ND as acceptances from other schools had come months earlier. Also as it turned out, first semester grades ended up being a worry for us in RD, as receiving a dreaded B in one first semester senior class became part of the application. In the end that one B was OK, but with EA the process would have been over before that grade came out.
Definitely have your son double check with his admission rep, but I can’t imagine why he shouldn’t apply EA. There is no chance of improving his test score (36!), and with his grades the only possibility would be that they may want to see his first semester grades, in which case they maybe would defer. Grades are also specific to a particular high school. If your school has a scattergraph available showing stats for students (your school only, over the last several years) who applied and identifies them as accepted or rejected, that will give you an idea about where your son’s GPA falls. I just think RD brings in so many more applicants and more competition, if you have the credentials go EA.
Don’t worry about “perfecting” his application, but have it be genuine and reflect his personality. Our school has the kids fill out a profile for their teachers who are writing recommendations. If your school does something similar be sure your son puts thought into that and does a thorough job. I think many kids do something like that last minute and don’t understand the impact. I had my child put time into thinking about their interests, strengths, and what they wanted admissions people to know about them. One of the teachers actually told my child it was the best recommendation he had ever written because of the info he had. If your school doesn’t request the info, your child could still offer it.
I never saw the recommendation letters so I don’t know for certain, but I think that also inadvertently caused the application as a whole to reflect a common theme. Essays, activities, recommendations, all supported each other.
Your son has great qualifications, wherever he ends up.
Best of luck through the application process!
Thank you @1irish1 for your through and thoughtful response.
In answer to your question about the scattergram, ours shows only two applicants with a 36 ACT and they both were accepted. Their GPAs were higher though, 4.35+. There were ten applicants with 35 with eight accepted, the lowest GPA being a 3.95. The two denied with a 35 had GPAs of 3.65 and 3.98. At the score of 34, there were 9 applicants. Four were denied with the highest GPA denied a 4.21, and the lowest GPA accepted at 4.08. At GPA 33, the lowest GPA accepted was 4.28. I feel this graph illustrates that my son is pretty competitive.
My husband has spoken to a few alum, and all of them say do not apply EA. I don’t know how they are so knowledgeable about it or if they have all the facts, but my sense is they are using their gut feeling, but I am looking at hard numbers. I spoke to one alum who said absolutely apply REA with the 36 ACT. It is so confusing with all the advice. Once we get his final grades this semester, it will be easier to weigh the options and have a conversation with his college counselor, whom I expect will have quite a bit of insight. I agree that going RD would mean a lot more stress with keeping those grades up in the first semester. With a 36 ACT, it is clear he has the capacity to handle the workload of 4 APs.
Also, thanks for the recommendation on the teacher recommendations. I don’t know if he has decided yet on who he will ask.
@WineLover Yes, ND REA vs. RD is not an easy choice - simply looking at raw admission and GPA/Test Score data is only one part of the equation, as mentioned earlier in post #3. Once certain academic requirements are covered, ND really looks at mutual fit. At that stage, higher comparative GPA/Test Scores do not make the difference, the applicant him/herself and the focus of that application does.
As suggested above, if your son has his ND application in optimal shape by the REA deadline, he might want to proceed that way. Nevertheless, admission data from ND feeder schools, which place on average 18-20 students per year, does not indicate a significant statistical difference between REA and RD in terms of admission outcomes. For students above the GPA/SAT/ACT threshold, the quality and focus of the application makes the difference. Very best of luck and success to your son in our Lady!
MY freshman daughter applied REA and was deferred then accepted. She was accepted over kids with better
overall GPA and more AP’s. Her ACT was a 34. Your son should start his contact with his regional representative sooner than later. Start showing documented interest now. ND is having web info sessions that you can log into and listen too. His application will be key. What will he bring to the ND community? How will an ND education help him give back or make the world a better place. Official visits are important.
@FarmerMom Thanks for your excellent advice. Congrats on your daughter’s acceptance!
As for what my son will bring to the community, I do think he does have a lot to offer (although my opinion is obviously biased!). One of the reasons why he is so attracted to ND is because of their service oriented culture. At his high school, he has been doing much already to give back through service on and off campus, leadership involvement in the campus ministry, and raising money for a couple of non profits in unique ways. One of the service programs he participated in is one that ND students themselves have done right on my son’s campus. I don’t know if this is all enough, but there is more to come this summer and next fall, so hopefully it will be enough to make a strong impression
@WineLover Recommend you and your son listen to these valuable resources that ND admissions has posted on YouTube. The presentations are several years old now, so the stats are possibly a bit dated, but I think the nuggets of admissions advice to be gleaned from listening to these is well worth an applicant’s time. Good luck to your son.
@WineLover Great screen name BTW. My DS was admitted RD. Just went to ND for Admitted Student Days. Wow! What an amazing place. I agree with the demonstrated interest theme of earlier posts. That said, my son was a “stealth” applicant. He has great stats, but never made contact with them prior to application. They mentioned several times this weekend the concept of “mutual fit”. They also highlighted the number of high stats applicants that did not get admitted. The essays are very important. Its not too early to start working on them.
