EA vs RD (not the basic questions)

<p>My D will be away from the summer...returning to the States the day before her senior year starts...so we're trying to figure out the college game plan before she leaves. </p>

<p>To make sure I understand this:
1. you apply ED to one college (and it has to be a college that you completely love & can afford). Then you also apply for a handful of EA schools...usually the safeties and then a few others.
2. And the reason you do this is because the admit rate (as a %) is higher during early admission. Right?
3. What would be the reason for applying for <em>any</em> colleges during regular decision? Is it simply because it's too hard to fill out that many applications at once?
4. Say that you're going to apply to 6 colleges EA...but you run out of time and only finish 4 of the applications...in general, are the EA & RD applications completely identical? (other than submit dates)...so does that mean you can fill them out, say, 90% and then finish them up later if you miss that first deadline? </p>

<p>thanks! </p>

<p>Okay, one more question…is another part of the EA strategy to see what colleges are going to be interested? And then to shift the potential college list based on these initial replies? (i.e. if you get a No from every tech school, you likely need to look at non-tech schools for batch 2). </p>

<p>From Peterson’s

</p>

<p>So to answer your questions:</p>

<p>1/ Yes you apply to one college ED if it’s one you know and love and if you can financially afford it. Which colleges, if any, you can apply to EA are dictated by the college you apply to ED.
2/ Correct. Plus if you get admitted, you don’t have to fill out other applications.
3/ If your ED college does not allow you to apply EA elsewhere
4/ The applications are identical.
5/ I’m not familiar with that strategy, so I can’t comment.</p>

<p>You are partially right.
1.My D actually left the safety out of EA as she was pretty sure RD to safety would just be fine too. When you get any EA admission, you do not apply to the safety in RD and save the money. If you want a peaceful mind, go ahead with EA to safety although I don’t think it is necessary.
2. The admission rate is higher for ED and one may have a better chance at ED as it is binding that the school can secure the yield. EA may or may not have higher admission rate particularly for the student with the same stat. It helps the school to have an early processing on selected students with more interest at the school. For the students, it is good to apply early to get it done. Also, sometimes merit aid is only available to EA applicants. That is one of the reason the EA applicants being more qualify.
3. I don’t think it is due to the number of applications. As ED is limited to one school, many students would have to apply to additional schools RD as they cannot apply ED to all. Note that usually a school has either EA or ED, not both.
4. RD application is usually the same but with a later deadline, however, the application pool is much larger. Also, one may not be eligible for merit scholarships at some schools with RD. In some cases, early (or priority) application may have the application fee or even essay requirement waived. Most important, RD would allow more time for the student to improve his/her credential (GPA, test score, EC, etc) before submitting application. My suggestion is to apply RD for this reason and also for the schools that you cannot apply ED.</p>

<p>hey @billcsho and @skieurope Many thanks for your great help! </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Many students (most!) don’t apply anywhere ED. Students who do apply somewhere ED may not have any EA schools on their list, so all other applications must be submitted during RD if the ED isn’t successful. And students applying SCEA cannot apply elsewhere EA (or ED, for that matter). </p>

<p>Admit rate may or may not be higher during ED/EA. Depends on the school. Even if the admit rate looks higher, it might not mean a better admit chance for your kid unless they’re hooked (e.g. sports recruit, legacy).</p>

<ol>
<li>There also exists “Restricted Early Action” (REA), also called “single choice early action” (SCEA) – only a handful of schools (HYPS, GTown and one other). If using this option, there are restrictions involved (no ED or private school EAs are allowed)</li>
<li> Often, finishing and getting an EA/ED decision in December is extremely liberating. Getting a few apps done early is just clearing off space to hopefully not have to cram a bunch in December.</li>
<li>Some students forego EA/ED because they want their 1st semester Senior grades to help boost GPA or take another ACT/SAT test sitting. As previously mentioned, ED precludes the comparision of FinAid.</li>
</ol>

<p>There are also RA (Rolling Admission) schools. These schools process applications as they are recieved send out decisions. When the freshman class is filled up, they stop taking admissions. These schools tend to open their applications early (some as early as June). My D applied to 2 such schools last August and had acceptances in October.</p>

<p>My son applied to 10 (generally) top-tier schools. He did nothing early, because his top choices were generally ED, and he didn’t want to lock in. RD is not, as the OP seemed to imply, only for those who “couldn’t get it together” for early applications. And the boost in admit rate is overblown. ED it probably helps, EA, not so much.</p>

<p>To answer #3: Many schools on your list may not offer EA. So if you’re not applying ED, your only option is RD.</p>

<p>My D applied EA to all schools on her list that offered it. Otherwise she applied RD, since FA was a major concern and she could not do ED. She certainly WISHED that all her schools offered EA! Actually, she had all of her applications -even the RD ones- submitted in November of her senior year. She was really, really glad of that when her friends were scrambling over Christmas break :)</p>

<p>^ Same for my D. The only RD was submitted in November and all others were EA. Got all the EA result before Christmas (although one rejection) and she was so happy the whole application process was pretty much over.</p>

<p>D1: ED, University of CA application (due by end of November), U Maryland-CP early (for merit consideration). All other six schools on her list didn’t offer EA, so she completed applications for RD submission if ED was unsuccessful.</p>

<p>D2: ED, U of CA app, three EA applications. One school on her list didn’t offer EA so application was completed for RD submission if ED was unsuccessful.</p>

<p>Having that first acceptance in hand really releases the pressure. </p>

<ol>
<li> Basically, yes. But the rules for ED and EA have changed and there are a lot of hybrids out there with things like single choice or restricted EA and you have to read the rules for every single school that your student wants to apply to. Some have unique rules and exceptions like you do have an ED out if not accepted to certain programs, and some restrictive EA schools do allow early apps to state schools, rolling admissions schools, schools with early scholarships dates. There is also ED2 in the picture. Make sure you read the ramifications of the rules and when their deadlines and responses are. Sometimes if you apply ED1 to one school it could overlap the ED2 of other possibilities if they don’t respond in time because you are not permitted to have two ED apps out at the same time,and you and your student sign such an agreement when you go down this path. So it’s not always that simple.</li>
</ol>

<p>Also, though the ideal for ED is that it’s the “college that you completely love & can afford”, that isn’t always the case. In terms of love, it often is a college that the student would have very few regrets going there. Most kids don’t absolutely love any college. How could they? They don’t know enough. But a lot of kids would be just thrilled to get into say Colombia or Brown ED and not have any regrets, in fact, would be jubilant at an acceptance at either or any schools of that sort with that kind of selectivity and lustre. It’s becomes a matter of at which one they would have the best chance of getting accepted. Or a toss up so pick out of a hat. My son’'s friend one year just wanted to get into practically any top flight school, and ED was preferable to get this whole thing over with. It was a matter of finding the best school out of the bunch with the best chance of acceptance. That has become the “ED game” as I call it. Has nothing to do with falling in love with a school. It’s playing the odds. In some way it’s emotionally a bit easier. It can really hurt big time to fall in love with a school and get turned down. It hurts the ego a lot even without the emotional investment, as a lot of these kids have gotten every accolade and award at their school, nothing but encouragement and acceptances, and then they enter the arena of selective college applications and it’s a whole other scene. </p>

<p>As for afford. yes, that is something that should be researched. The way I truly feel is that if you need money, and amounts can make a difference in the choice, ED is not the best way to got. That is not to say that if you have financial need it’s a total shut out, but here is the reality: Most people cannot come up with a hard fast figure that they can’t or won’t pay. It 's a namby, pamby figure. They cannot say if the school come up with a cost of $X, it’s off the table. We get into the old what about $X+ how much more can you go? For those who can run some numbers, take a deep breath and say, that we are going to do all we can to swing this, even if it’s going to hurt a lot because it’s that much worth it to us if kid gets into XYX College, then that could be a go. Run the NPCs for the school and if they look palatable, it is likely going to work, but if you own funky investments, have your own business or otherwise atypical financial profile, it might be a whole other story. My friend got slammed, not a dime of aid from Harvard, despite a modest income, because he supports his family by ownership and management of rundown type apartments (he’s a slum lord). Income about $60K a year. But the value of the those buildings and the way colleges look at this, he’s wealthy. But selling or borrowing against a building to pay college, reduces his income which is not so hot anyways for having a kid in top $ schools. He has pay back any loans (if he could even get them against such properties) and to sell, means losing the income from the place. Too bad, is what Harvard said, as did most other schools. </p>

<p>You can back out of ED legitimately, if the fin aid is not what you feel you can handle, but be aware of the emotional momentum that going through all of this puts on you and your kid. You will have those puppy dog eyes looking at you as you cringe at the figures that you are expected to pay, and that are likely to only increase each year for 4 years. It’s very difficult to make a solid decision that way. I know I could not. I’m too soft of a touch already with things with less impact. Insult upon injury when it comes out at the end of the year that a lot of your kid’s peers get into choice #2 for half the price, and your kid muses she’d be just as happy there and too bad she went ED with the school she did. Yes, I am seeing that right now. Once the pressure of ED wears off, it becomes the status quo and one can look at the choices more rationally, and there is this thing called buyer’s remorse than also can be quite relevant. Your kid HAD to get into Lehigh early, they offered a package that, yes, you could barely manage, but you signed on the line, bought yourself a stress free rest of the app season, and you are everyone’s hero, and her BFF gets packages from Tulane, also was you DD’s list, at a lot less cost, and your DD makes that remark. Also you see kids with Fordham tuition free, and a whole bunch of a other such deals, and you realize that you just lost out on $40K or more that is going to come out of your sweat and stress. If it were Harvard or Princeton, or truly what was a dream school (a term I wonder about anyways other than the top status symbols of names) that’s one thing, but for some schools…really. Does it matter THAT much? </p>

<p>A strategy could be to apply to a reach school ED and other schools EA because it better enables the student to get significant merit aid.</p>

<p>For instance, DS applied EA to Fordham and Northeastern. As a NMSF, he was very likely to get excellent financial aid from there. In fact, he received packages from both that included full tuition. Based on what we read here and on their websites, it looked more likely to be offered that aid when applying early. </p>

<p>The same applies with a number of other schools, such as a number of public universities. (He was about to apply to our flagship EA as well before hearing back from his ED choice.</p>

<p>DS applied ED to Columbia University and got in. They allow a student not to accept the offer if the aid is unaffordable, although they ask for a conversation about that with someone in the financial aid office, should that route be pursued. In his case, the aid made Columbia affordable and so that’s where he’s going.</p>

<p>But if he had not gotten in ED or had been deferred or the money from Columbia wasn’t sufficient, he would have had two acceptances with very good financial aid before applying anywhere else. And that would have been a nice place to be. As others have said, that would have relieved a lot of pressure.</p>

<p>2.It’s not that simple because it has become such a “game” for upping odds. For many schools, yes, the numbers are clear. when you take away the ED accepts, the actual number of seats left for RD are shockling small. And so are the odds. But that just might the reality of the situation. Many athletic recruits go early and at a small school with lots of sports, that can be a lot of bodies right there. Also those kids who can get their acts together or come from families where there is a parent driving the process, are usually pretty much up there in stats too, so you often do have a tougher crowd ED. So for the most selective schools, it can be a tough go to get accepted early Why the heck commit to a borderline kid for whom this will likely be the best school that will accept him, is the way some school admissions folks will ask. The ED process will often cherry pick what the school really wants out of the mix so that they can focus on other things in RD and not take the chance that the 2300 SAT crowd will then be meager or that there won’t be that many kids from Alaska, Idaho and Montana applying in that group or that the physics dept is going to be jumping all over admissions for letting those rare birds go. But for the top schools, like say Dartmouth, Willams, Amherst, it’s questionable for those on the edge to apply ED there unless one has some hook of sorts. Whys should they accept someone on the borderline of accept. They’ll get plenty of that and more RD. Now a schoo that is not so selective with some yield issues, that’s a whole different story. Those schools are having a difficult time discerning “phantom” apps from the real thing and things like demonstrated interest are important to them as there are so many applications being sent out with the common app these days. ED is the ultimate demonstrated interest and for them a bird in hand is worth a lot. For RD, they have to figure out who is interested as well as best qualified. ED makes a big difference in such schools. </p>

<p>EA, yes, has the awards sometimes, and it allows a college to look at what’s out there that season. Also for some kids, it’s game over after a favorite EA accept. Why bother with this torturous process is a school they really like accepts them? Why take the SAT AGAIN, why not enjoy senior year with the EA accept to BC which is a school they like just fine, for an outside chance of getting into something slighlty "better:? This is a stressful process and expensive. If you get into a school you really like, you REALLY want to continue with the RD process when you are perfectly happy now? Ok, throw in maybe another app or two, but you can be done, just like the ED kid if you get a good EA pick. So schools do make out with that in EA. And some of it is reflected in the EA rates. EA also can serve as a litmus test for the applicant as to where he is in the selectivity ranges. Apply EA to Georgetown, BC, Fordham and Binghamton, the responses give you a good idea as to what other schools might take you. It might be a rude awakening too. You can then look at your app and see what needs to be shored up and revamp your RD list accordingly, or maybe you are done right there. It’s win-win, IMO. Unless those senior year grades are important to the profile, those first term ones. One of my kids had a very good up tick curve and that 4.0 first term senior year with all the most rigorous courses, I believe was essential to his acceptances to some reach schools as he had a bad start with not so rigorous courses in high school and raised himself to that level. EA would not have fully shown this. Also if test scores need to be raised and the EA deadlines don’t give that chance. Schools that reject or have very low accepts for those deferred may not be good EA candidates for kids in such situations. </p>

<ol>
<li> There are schools that do not offer EA that may be good prospects for your kid. Like a lot of them. To cross them off would be ignoring some great schools. If EA and/or ED fit your needs just fine, no NEED for RD, and if the early results end up with a pick or picks for your kid, it’s game over. But there may be some schools that are in the pool and your kid or you don’t want to commit ED to them because you aren’t there yet or you already have an ED school in mind, but you might want to get some apps ready RD in case ED doesn’t work out. My son doesn’t know what school he likes yet, and he likely won’t be so enamored with any school to pick any of them ED. They’ll all be EA or RD. Gives him time to make the decisions. And who knows which ones of them will be choices even. He can pick some lottery tickets, and then some schools where he will have half a chance or better to get accepted, and then most importantly some schools that he knows will take him and that are affordable. Those may end up RD. The last school my college kid added to his list when he went through all of this, gave him a full tuition award, and it was just an add on The best deal of all, and he realizes now he did not give it enough consideration. A lot of his peers took up that school on that offer and they are doing quite well. At the time, the whole idea of going away to school and some name brands loomed large, but kids grow up, some of them do, and had he gone, there, I’d have given him what we said we’d pay for college. He’d graduate with six figures in an account, something few 21 one year olds (or anyone) would have. Instead we paid the college of choice.<br></li>
</ol>

<ol>
<li> yes. Most all EA and RD appls that I have seen are identical, except if there are some major awards with deadline in the picture with extra apps and questions that are needed for consideration. And yes, fi the condition for those awards is the EA deadline, you don’t get them RD. The ED and RD apps are the same too. The only difference is the ED agreement section. Though, of course, any school can do as pleases with this and throw in anything extra for EA or ED not on RD. Like why the student is applying early to that school.<br></li>
</ol>

<p>A reason to hold off on some apps rather than sending them all in early is that it can get expensive. If cost is no issue, and you get them all done at the same time, go to it with them all at the same time. But if you know that early results will mean pulling some schools off the list, means you save the app fees on them and possibly test sending costs too. Some of those apps are quite expensive and can add up. So, if the student can get them all done and just have them waiting to mail in case the early word is not what is wanted, that’s the ideal situation. Can have a shredding party if the right school responds. </p>

<p>One warning, if some state schools. or rolling admissions type programs are involved, it is often important, even essential to get those apps out early regardless of the due dates. When some of those programs are filled, that’s it. And the earlier apps get some favoritism as the schools do not to fill them up all at once, but are more likely to take the earlier kids. So when there are 400 seats open, that first batch of apps are going to get a lookysee with the intent to get those seats filled. When only 40 seats are left, they admissions office might decide to get pickier and hold out for some of high stat later apps or leave room for something that might come up, So those apps should go out early, or a safety may not a safety be later in the season. Penn State main campus, has out and out said that the 3 important numbers for applicants are the test scores, grades/rank and date they get the app. </p>

<p>@cptofthehouse wow! thank you for these thought-provoking insights…super interesting…I am literally printing it out now & reading it in leisure (with a good pinot) later tonight…</p>