Each Of You Are Special

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>I thought it was time to start a thread for those of you who maybe weren't the stars at your high school, didn't attended an elite summer performing arts camp, don't have a 1970 on your SAT or a 3.7 GPA and who's parents might find paying for college a very difficult task. </p>

<p>You might consider yourself an average or just above average student and maybe have a limited resume. But you are dying to perform and can't imagine doing anything else with your life. You have a "fire in the belly", as one of my parents says.</p>

<p>I know that reading this board can be daunting for many of you because you have told me so. There is so much information and you can get overwhelmed. Many of you are doubting yourself and feel don't have the goods to get into a terrific program.
Believe me, there is a place for each and every one of you and YOU WILL SHINE! </p>

<p>Please take a minute to read what Dr. John posted on another thread about "numbers" . I have pasted it here. </p>

<p>And any time you want to talk, you can email me or PM me. I will be glad to help in any way I can.</p>

<p>EACH OF YOU ARE SPECIAL!</p>

<p>Numbers
As we approach the week of the Unified Auditions, I’ve been musing about numbers. I’ve written about this before, but not in the detail I’m about to present.</p>

<p>It is true that the top schools take a very small percentage of applicants, in some cases less than 5%. That’s especially true for women. Last year, for example, we auditioned 151 women for MT at Otterbein. We made initial offers to 4. That’s 2.65%. One turned us down. We eventually accepted two from the waiting list. So that’s 6 offers to 151 women, or 3.97%. Daunting. Scary, even.</p>

<p>But, as I’ve said before, the laws of physics dictate that even the most talented students can’t enroll in two schools at the same time. Let’s see what that means.</p>

<p>There are 30 schools for which collegeconfidential.com has created individual threads. Let’s just deal with those, and not the remaining 92 on the Big List. From my reading, it appears that the average number of students accepted into those 30 MT programs is around 20. We’re at the low end of the scale at 8; CAP 21 is at the high end with 60. That means that there are 30x20 or 600 spaces for MT majors at the 30 schools. 600 is a whole lot more than 8.</p>

<p>CCM, CMU and Tisch report that they audition between 700-1000 students. But that doesn’t mean that they collectively see 3000 students. With cross-applications, it’s probably more like 1500. My guess is that the 30 schools are seeing around 1800 students total for their 600 spaces. 600/1800 = 1/3. Not bad odds.</p>

<p>We have to modify this a bit for gender. Our statistics show that 67% of our MT applicants are women. Let’s assume that’s the pattern across the country. So of the 1800 students who are auditioning for MT at the 30 schools, my guess is that 2/3, or 1200, are women. They’re auditioning for half the slots, or 300. 300/1200 = ¼. That’s 25%. Not quite as good as 33%, but much better than 3%.</p>

<p>If my analysis is anywhere close to being right, women have something close to a one-in-four chance of being admitted, eventually, to one of 30 schools. I say “eventually” because the top 10% of students are going to receive the first-round offers. But they cannot choose more than one school. So eventually 300 of the 1200 women will be placed in one of the 30 schools.</p>

<p>If you look at the Big List, and make similar assumptions about the entire group of 122 schools, they have 122x20 = 2440 spaces for MT students. I think that means that there are spaces for everyone who really wants to do Musical Theatre. I find that a hopeful thought as I approach the audition season. I hope you will too.</p>

<p>My very best wishes to everyone. See you soon.</p>

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<p>Bless you! What a great thread idea. I hope this expands the areas of discussion on this board. It is sometimes so intimidating to read what is posted that it can be discouraging.</p>

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<p>I second what NOCCAMom said. Great idea for a thread, Mary Anna! I am sure that when one or one's child is in the process of applying to colleges, grades, auditions, scores, etc. seem all encompassing and all-important. And, certainly, going to college and getting the best college experience possible is a wonderful thing and a good jump start to a professional life, be it in MT or in other professions.
But as a woman in the middle of her life, I am more than acutely aware that there are so many, many things (skills, experiences, circumstance, luck, hard work, etc.) that really determine whether, in the long run, one will be a success at his or her chosen field or not. Those thing, in the long run, matter far, far more than whether one ends up attending a prestigious or selective college.
I guess what I am saying, though not very well :), is that though students should certainly do their very best to get admitted to the very best program possible, what matters more is what they do with the program they get into. As one editorial I once read on the whole college admissions process said "If you are still talking about your SAT scores when you're 40, you need to get a life." :)
And though it isn't applicable directly to MT admissions, The Atlantic Monthly once ran a wonderful (imo) feature headlined "Crying in the Kitchen Over Princeton." The article discussed how much pressure is on kids nowadays to go to elite colleges, when, in fact, most successful people (in business and elsewhere) attended no-name or state universities. It made the point that I just tried to make, only better! I recommend that everyone here see if your public library has back issues of The Atlantic and get herself or himself a copy, pronto. It puts things in perspective.
Lisa</p>

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<p>Here is the link to at least part of the story. Maybe subscribers can get the rest ...</p>

<p><a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/200409u/int2004-09-07%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/200409u/int2004-09-07&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>I agree that this is a much needed thread. I, for one, get discouraged when I read many of the posters' comments about this gifted student, or that talented daughter or son, etc. How the odds are stacked against just about everybody. I am sure deep down we all feel that our child is gifted and talented. And yes, it is subjective. And of course you should support your child in reaching for that dream college, while also helping them to throw in some "safety" schools as well. I have come to the conclusion that hey, life is too short to drive yourself crazy over whether you are good enough, smart enough, talented enough, have the right monologue or the right song that is or isn't overdone, etc. Due to all the many different factors and circumstances for each and every child applying to that college of their choice, I say go for it. Just because one hasn't DONE this or that, does not mean they can't DO this or that. It just might mean that they haven't had the right opportunity yet.</p>

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<p>Well said LAWoman!</p>

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<p>I love the energy I'm feeling from all of the Moms here - the "Mama Lions" roar!!</p>

<p>Now what you need to do is find the way to communicate these powerful thoughts and feelings to your children as they go through the college audition process and even after they are settled somewhere, no matter where that somewhere is. In their chosen profession they will ALWAYS need our support, our honesty, our open hearts and (as I said in a post that unfortunately was one of the ones lost in the CC Time Warp of January) a soft place to fall. In the light of what the rest of the world shows them and the stress of putting themselves out there to be judged all the time, it is easy for them to come to believe that they are not "worthy." We have to do our best to help our kids understand that worth is not accorded to us from outside sources. Yes, they need the ability to honestly self-assess as that is how one learns to work on what needs work. But they need to believe in their own self worth before others will believe in them. It has been said that we all believe that our kids are talented and special and that is exactly how we should feel. But it is the rare child who believes that his or her parent's opinion of their talent is worth anything in the "real" world. We can provide much more in the way of "value added" for our children by believing and communicating our belief in their HUMAN potential as well as their artistic potential. We will certainly be proud of their artistic achievements if and when they occur but we will be contributing more to their success in life by helping them keep the successes as well as the failures in their lives in perspective and by supporting and encouraging their humanity.</p>

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<p>I completely agree. These talented kids will do well at most schools, so the decision shouldn't be based on who accepts them, but which schools feel the most comfortable. One thing we found when visiting (over 15 schools) was that almost every student was happy with their school. Even students that were initially dissapointed about not getting into the their first or second choice. If they have the talent and work hard, they will all be fine. We also have to remember that while these schools like to tell us about all their grads on broadway, many more didn't go to the top schools or even any school at all!</p>

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<p>Actorsdad:</p>

<p>Exactly - and I would venture to say that there are many students who go through the college audition process, as well as the regular audition circuit, who haven't even read this board. Imagine that! Iknow that I, for one, have been guilty of looking to this board as if it were the Holy Grail of musical theater. Now, don't get me wrong, had I not found this site I would not know half of what I know (which ain't much!) about the auditioning process. But I think if you put it into perspective, there are many, many kids who (1) audition (2) go to college and/or (3) find work in this field, who haven't even heard of CollegeConfidential! Am I wrong?</p>

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<p>LAWoman:</p>

<p>No, you are not wrong at all!</p>

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<p>mary anna --</p>

<p>speaking as a student who auditioned unsuccessfully last year, thank you. with my only audition cmoing up on saturday, i'm finding myself increasingly nervous and hoping that last year's disappointment isn't repeated. it's great to hear such words of encouragement from someone who HAS had so much success.</p>

<p>thank you thank you thank you!
maggie</p>

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<p>Maggie...you go girl...I'm rooting for you. You are very talented and you are well prepared. Go for it and believe in yourself. No matter what happens, if you want to make it in this field, you keep going after it...you can do it. If it is not this school at this time, it will be something else. Don't give up. Keep pursuing your goals.
Best....Susan</p>

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<p>thank you so much, susan. i'm feeling better already!!! and you'd better believe that i'll get something eventually, even if it's not this year :)</p>

<p>BoCo on saturday!!!!! think happy thoughts!</p>

<p>maggie</p>

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<p>Sporti2005 - I will think about you on Saturday and send as much positive energy your way as possible. No matter what the outcome, you will find your path and place....I am a big believer in "meant to be" since our experience with Hurricane Katrina. I couldn't possible list all of the great things that have happened to us in the wake of a devasting event that changed the course of our lives. Our new path has been a silver lining.</p>

<p>BREAK BOTH LEGS!!!</p>

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<p>LAWoman and Sissy are so right about how many people read or don't read this board. In fact, most people, coaches, and teachers that I mention it to have never heard of it! There is much valuable info here and it certainly became our saving grace last year, but much of what we have done in this year's audition process was barely talked about here. For example, understanding that MT is a form of theatre and we should really be discussing the broader topic of theater more in depth. We have found that the intense focus on MT is simply not the focus in the professional world. The focus is on acting and training first. I think this is why you will see so many college programs that don't do dance auditions. All those years of "gotta have tap lessons" may not translate to what college theater departments and casting agents are looking for unless you want to be chorus girl #57 in 42nd Street! I also think many great schools are not even being applied to because some parents and kids don't understand this. I hope to share more info on what we have learned once we are through the process....</p>

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<p>Proving once again that cc is a most welcome support in this intense process! Thank you! My first thought, i will admit, was to share this with my D... but on further reflection, I realized that at this stage of the game, it is I who has the anxiety.She is doing her thing, juggling school and shows and work, etc... and it I read this "holy grail" seeking information but really seeking reassurance that all will be well with my DD as she leaves the nest. Thank you all so much for helping me to stay grounded.
Harriet</p>

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<p>I thank Mary Anna for her posting here. I am a mom of a gifted auditioning student who has academic strengths as well as weaknesses - When I read over and over about those kids who have it all, I sometimes feel sad and wish that my child and all the other aspiring students were wrapped as perfect packages - perfect scores, GPAs, ECs and perfect auditions, too - I was with my child at an audition when one girl did not get a callback and I heard her apologize to her mom. She had hugged her mom going in. I felt that the closeness she exhibited with her mom was of such value. I was sorry she felt devalued afterwards. This period of auditions has been an enlightening process in many ways. I have learned a lot from the professionals who weigh in, and I especially have learned that these kids who are in the rooms sharing their talents are gutsy and deserve all the support in the world.
Thank you, Mary Anna, for reminding everyone of this.</p>

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<p>NOCCAmom, you are so right about the overall focus of most MT college program auditions being acting, and I want to emphasize that many of us here HAVE tried to convey that, whether talking about the song selection "dilemma" (my bottom line is always CONNECT TO THE MATERIAL, decide what your intention in the piece is, and convey your intention VERY SPECIFICALLY!!!), monologues, even dance auditions.</p>

<p>The professional world is a different animal. Are they all about acting? YOU BETCHA - even in a 16-bar singing audition. Do they care about training? Depends on what you mean - they care what you bring to the audition room. That usually REFLECTS your training, but of course there are "untrained" people with wonderful gifts who are working like crazy - and there are people with "different" training (instrumental, for example) who are also working like crazy. Usually, your training is more exposed as you get further and further along in a callback process. That's where ALL of the tools in your toolbox may be called into use. Great example: one of my coaching colleagues (whom I have connected to several CC'ers!!;) ) just started performing one of the 2 swings in JERSEY BOYS, perhaps the most coveted job for a young guy on Broadway right now, esp. as he's covering 2 of the Four Seasons as well as ensemble roles and has just begun working on the herculean role of Frankie Valli. When he did he final callback for the production staff AND Bob Gaudio (one of the actual original Four Seasons, the composer of their music, who is also portrayed in the show), he had to dance, sing, and read. He truly had to be a triple threat, for these very important LEAD roles! I was told (by a friend who was part of this audition process ) that the young man of whom I am speaking got the job because he could do ALL things well - and the fact that he was the best dancer was one thing that made him really stand out. (He's a CMU grad, btw.)</p>

<p>So you want a school that will give you AS MANY MT tools as possible, because that increases your marketability in musicals, if that is something about which you are passionate. Acting should always be the focus (and in all good programs it IS), but if you WANT to do musicals, then the more musicianship and dance ability/training you have, the better! Different schools "preach" different takes on this (We train LEADS, etc. etc. etc.) - but my young adult students who are actually IN NYC making their livings will CERTAINLY do ensemble work in a Broadway show - of course they will!!! Another example: I have a great friend who went from covering 2 leads in a major Broadway show to dancing in the ensemble of a national tour. And he DEFINITELY does not classify himself as a "dancer" - but work is work, and Equity touring minimum (plus per diem) is quite a good salary! He was able to achieve this job touring and save enough to buy a house (at the age of 22) because he could "do it all" - he was hired to understudy one of the leads in the tour (primarily a singing role), but they needed him to be ensemble-worthy, as well. (I wish I could tell more specifics but he wouldn't like to be identified.) </p>

<p>Casting agents are looking for what they need in a specific show. For my students who have gotten far in the ALTAR BOYZ casting process, for example, they had, in this order:</p>

<ol>
<li>the right look</li>
<li>the right youthful/boy band energy and understanding of the specific comedic style of the piece</li>
<li>the right vocal and dance ability EQUALLY - truly, EQUALLY</li>
</ol>

<p>(ALTAR BOYZ calls back based on singing and look and then cuts after a dance call.)</p>

<p>So fill your performer toolboxes with EVERYTHING you can - it increases your hireability! That is the reality of the MUSICAL THEATRE world - and some of you will choose to stay NYC-based, some will venture to LA (where training REEEEEALLLY doesn't matter in many cases - oooh, a whole different story!), some will move fluidy between coasts and performance media...you just never know. </p>

<p>P.S. Many young B-Way performers get their Equity cards by being "chorus girl or boy #57" in summer stocks such as the MUNY (yay theatermom's D!!!) - which ain't NOTHIN to sneeze at!!! Those same performers earn incredible knowledge and build valuable connections, and they are often hired back and move up into leading roles, or are called in for jobs based on their great reputations as chorus work horses. :)</p>

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<p>I totally agree. While I wish I knew about this site earlier, it's amazing how many people never heard about it. We went through this process without any help and believe me, it was a lot of work. In the end, by reviewing this site it reassured us that we did all right. Although I must admit, during the early audition process, I thought my S was at a big disadvantage by not getting expert/professional advice. In the end he did fine and was accepted to one of his top choices.</p>

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<p>MANY or the MAJORITY of people interested in colleges for musical theater are not on this site. You don't need to be. CC is a resource and it is also a place to share experiences, ask questions, etc. There are not a lot of resources out there on this topic. As well, it is an overwhelming process and many of us do not live in communities or have kids who attend performing arts schools and such to share such information and experiences. I know when I found CC 3 1/2 years ago, I learned a lot and met a lot of great people. </p>

<p>I agree with Coach about the idea of going into MT, the importance of really having the tools in all three disciplines of acting, singing, and dancing. The way many professional auditions are done for MT, involve a singing call, a dance call and often a cut and then a reading. You can make it past the singing call but if the next round is dancing, better know how to dance. This has been our observations in past auditions as well as ones now in NYC. I also agree with Coach that for a young actor/actress just starting out in the professional realm of the theater world, one must gain experience and be VERY willing to accept Chorus girl #45 at this point in her career. I know my D would be thrilled to get a chorus part in professional summer stock at this point in her life, even if she has had experience as a lead before. You have to start somewhere. Look at the resumes of many successful actors in theater and their early credits are in summer stock and regional theater and often in smaller parts. So, yes, that dancing is important. And SURELY acting is important. It is not enough to be able to sing well. It is musical theater afterall, and not a recital or concert. </p>

<p>I also don't think you need to go to a "top school" but merely to follow a path to your goals....keep training, keep reaching for the next step in your career. There are many paths to get to your goal. </p>

<p>I'm glad that many have found CC to be a helpful resource and support system as they have navigated the BFA admissions quagmire. I know it has helped me. It is not representative of all who are pursuing this goal, by far, but many come here who are taking the time to learn as much as they can and then some are also giving back, and some are supporting one another and some are simply building friendships with a common bond of being in musical theater. </p>

<p>A major factor must be to believe in yourself (if a student) and believe in your kid (if a parent). It is not about comparing yourself to others but about doing all you can to stay your course to your goals. It is not some contest. Parents are there for support no matter what happens, obstacles, successes, what have you. Students have to also build confidence in themselves because confidence itself goes a long way, particularly in an audition. Think less about what others are doing and keep to your plan, your path, your goals. That's the focus. Each child has a special gift and parents can help them nurture it, be there for the ups and downs (and this field sure has 'em!) and simply, follow your dreams!</p>