<p>HImom - I agree about the social clique problem in Girl Scouts.
Middle school girls are cliquish - boys not so much. Unfortunately, no matter how much the adult leaders may try to change this dynamic, it often remains a problem.
I think the fact that Boy Scout troops usually have boys of all ages - with the high schoolers mentoring the younger ones - really changes whatever social group dynamic that the middle school boys may bring to the troop. BScouts often provides a healthy outlet for the boys' competitve drive the way that sports do, with their patrols often working to best one another in skill aquisition, service, and rank advancement. The Girl Scouts don't seem to foster any competition - at least none that I can see in the program - which may relegate the girls, who are all the same age, to the petty social competition that they seem so intent on in middle school.</p>
<p>When I was a scout (yeah the dark ages), we had girls spanning at least 3 years all in the same troop. Now, troops often only have ONE age & many go to the same school & are more "Mean Girls" than "Bernstein Bears" if you know what I mean. It saddened me a great deal because my D liked the girls individually & they liked her one-on-one, but as a troop, it was pretty toxic with all the social undercurrents & cross-currents & better for everyone to go separate ways. I had so wanted her to experience the joy & enrichment I found in scouting that wasn't there for her.
You're right that in BS, there are often kids from age 10 thru 18 working side by side. This helps give the younger ones mentors to follow & is wonderful to see & experience. Some troops are better about encouraging/fostering this relationship than others, but when it works, it really is a joy & inspiration for all touched by it!</p>
<p>Back to the OP's question:
My S is an eagle scout. I think at some schools it may have been a small tip factor in admissions, but it very well might not have been (tough to say).</p>
<p>I believe that at 1 school merit aid was received based on community service, leardership etc., so eagle scout clinched it. Tough to say if he would have been awarded $ based on academics, if he did not have his eagle. I suspect that he might have.</p>
<p>I believe at 1 school, the eagle was a definite tip factor in both admissions and merit aid. I believe that at this school all essays and everything about the applicant (teacher/counselor recs, essays) were very carefully read and considered. I believe this is really the only school that spent time reading and considering everything in that application. This is a smaller/midsized school, and admissions is pretty competitive.</p>
<p>At all other schools applied to, I think that admissions really did not care much about the eagle award. I think that they pretty much looked at gpa and sat scores and decided in, or not in. I think that at most schools, once again, gpa and sats were looked at for merit aid, period. I do not think that eagle helped at all. I think that as long as an applicant had some ecs, that is all that mattered. I am sure that they read for certain ecs to have a balanced class (maybe x number of eagles, x number of violin players etc.). I do not think the eagle will trump a violin player though. In fact, if they need a violin player, guess who is getting in.</p>
<p>" more "Mean Girls" than "Bernstein Bears" if you know what I mean."</p>
<p>lol! My daughter had the same experience in Girl Scouts. She often found herself either the pawn or the mediator between her friends.
I think the GS program is not challenging enough for our girls. They need to have a little bit of hardship or situations that requrie teamwork to do well - like the survival skills and competitions that the boys seem to create in their program. </p>
<p>My son made an interesting observation the other day when we were discussing this topic, and my daughter was lamenting the lack of rigor in her GS program.
The Girl Scouts are allowed to participate in our Boy Scouts Skill's Day in our counsel. As a scout mom, you probably know that uniform checks are part of the program - the troop gets points for the number of boys in the troop who wear their complete uniform. (shirt, shorts or pants, scarf, socks, hat, belt, hat if troop wears one). This is a fairly easy requirement for the boys to meet - they just need to be conscious and remember to wear everything, and it can really help the troop score points for the day.
My son told me that a woman with the Girl Scouts informed the Boy Scouts in charge of uniform checks that "every girl is considered
in uniform if she has EITHER the shirt or t-shirt." That's it. No other uniform component was required for the girls to receive all the points.
Well, as you might guess, every Girl Scout troop received 100% for their uniform checks (8 troops), where only two boy scout troops (out of 15 or so) receieved that score. Most boy troops were around the 75% range- yet for the most part the boys were in uniform, and the girls looked like they were going to a swim party. (and they acted like it, but that's just a teenage boy's opinion.)
What difference does this make, really? Why can't the girls just wear whatever they want? Well, they can, but they shouldn't be receiving points for not complying with the intended objective when the "other sex" is judged by a stricter criteria for the same achievement. The girls should have just bowed out of that part of the program if they didn't want to wear a uniform - or just accepted whatever points they would be given. As a Girl Scout leader, I would never have let my girls get away with that - it just doesn't help our cause!</p>
<p>I've had teenage girls say to me that they wished they could be in Boy Scouts because they wanted to camp and do outdoor things. Anybody like this might look into the BSA Venturing Program which is co-ed. You have to be 14 years old.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=vy%5B/url%5D">http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=vy</a></p>
<p>Actually, it's too late if you wait until the girls are 14--by they, they've found other things to do with their time & energy & have given up on scouts (at least in the case of the GS' I've known). I'm really sad because I loved scouting, whith was a BIG part of my life from 5th grade thru graduating from HS. I made my best friends there & learned more than I learned in school. I am very sad that it is not serving the girls I know & most drop out by the time they're 12 (if not sooner). My daughter really wanted to be a BS--at 10 but now at 16 has gone on to other things.</p>
<p>I was a girlscout, a girlscout troop leader, my Ds were girls scouts and bluebirds</p>
<p>i agree, the program is not challenging enough, the badge thing drove me crazy, it was nice to have a direction, but often it was badge focused with some moms and not enough "real" stuff</p>
<p>I mean some kids didn't get their patches on for months, while others had them on within an hour of getting it</p>
<p>And the money spent on them could have been put to much better use</p>
<p>That being said, we learned a lot, made some good friends, had some great experiences</p>
<p>My troop, well, with three or four co-leaders, we had up to 60 girls of all ages, because we made it fun</p>
<p>i think girlscouts needs to modernize in order to keep girls past 12 years old, some stay, but many girls these days want more challenges, to get down and dirty, to really do something</p>
<p>Maybe our girls' generation - the one's in their late teens, early twenties,- will be the ones to update the program when they have their own daughters. I think this generation of students is fantastic. I can't believe how much they accomplish and how motivated they are. They give me hope.</p>
<p>Sometimes I wonder how much longer GS will continue if it keeps along its current trend. I do love our daughters & their friends, but GScouting isn't meeting their needs.</p>
<p>I was an avid GS during my young years--- starting in kindergarden and going through 4th grade.</p>
<p>After a series of horrible experiences involving overnight camps, craft projects gone awfully wrong (read: 2nd degree burn on my thumb asan 8 year old), and complete boredom, I simply quit.</p>
<p>I rejoined again in 7th grade at the urging of my best friend. This only lasted for one year before I got bored of doing esentially the same things over and over to earn differant patches. </p>
<p>Girl Scouts just wasn't fun for me. That's sad, too, because I remember loving girlscouts back when I was a Daisy in a blue smock. </p>
<p>Anyways, the point of my post is, how do Civil Air Patrol awards (like Billy Mitchell, Earhart, or even Spatz) compare to something like Eagle Scouts and such? Most people here probably aren't even aware of the program though, so I suppose this was a waste.</p>
<p>Awards themselves are less important than the EC itself. Adcoms want to see long-term commitment and "passion" in one or two activities. The awards are just evidence of the activity and some level of achievement in following it. The Eagle Scout award is less impressive than somebody having an active "career" in scouting. I am not familiar with the CAP awards, but if you were active in the CAP then that would be a good EC either because of an interest in aviation or as community service.</p>
<p>From this thread, it sounds like Girl Scouting has a real problem. (My S became an Eagle in BSA and I don't have any girls.) A big part of BSA is that the different ages are mixed together and the older boys teach the younger ones. There is a real emphasis on leadership. The adult leaders try to keep out of it as much as possible. All of this is probably less important than just the fact that there are activities and the scouts do things. Of course, some kids that age (including some of the scouts who do it anyway) would rather be at home playing a video game, but a lot of the scouts really enjoy camping on winter campouts and going on 10 mile hikes. As an adult leader, I was amazed that any scout would get up at 5am to go jump into a very, very cold lake for the Polar Bear award. I'm sure that there are girls who would like to do outdoors things too.</p>
<p>
[quote]
From her and my experiences, getting Eagle is easliy tougher and more time-consuming than getting the Gold Award. That was just my own personal experience, though.
[/quote]
Girl Scouts aren't tough... you obviously had a sissy troup... It takes real patience and persistence to become an eagle scout in most troops</p>
<p>Getting back to OP's question, I think it depends on how you present it. If you just list "Eagle Scout" in the chart of EC's, it probably doesn't get a lot of consideration. If you write your essay about the experience or otherwise demonstrate that it meant something to you, that is more helpful.</p>
<p>What I did was create a 1 page resume for my project, including a description of the project itself (building a transverse climbing wall at a local park) and a list of all of the responsibilities I had to fulfill (creating a design, getting approval, obtaining materials and volunteer workers, safety, etc.). I also included a couple pictures of the finished project. I wrote about the project in one of my essays, but that was only for one school. For my common app essay, I wrote about my experience with the Trail Crew at Philmont.</p>
<p>I am convinced that doing all of the above really helped me out in admissions to some very selective schools (<20% acceptance). Though I would consider myself a strong applicant in other areas, I'm certain that being an eagle scout and showing evidence of a focus on Boy Scouts put me over the top.</p>
<p>i dont see an argument here... it took me 10 years to get to Eagle ( include Cub Scouts)...</p>
<p>you show me an EC that takes 10 years to complete and I'll show you someone who is bsing their application.</p>
<p>I've known a few otherwise unexceptional people who have gotten into Harvard with that as one of their major ECs. I am guessing Harvard respects the Eagle Scout award.</p>
<p>I think the level of weight the Eagle carries varies by college. S is an Eagle Scout, a good but not top student. I believe absolutely that a couple of scholarships he unexpectedly received were a direct result of this EC.</p>
<p>As someone else pointed out above, it also helps, I think, to make sure to do more than add a line to the resume. S did one essay on it which allowed him a chance to speak about the project itself in more detail. </p>
<p>I'd definitely not only list it, but be sure to expand on it enough that the admissions person really "gets" the level of commitment it takes.</p>
<p>Yes, all Eagle projects are NOT alike. A friend's Eagle project took several years of organizing dozens or hundreds of boys in chopping countless trees at the Boy Scout camp. Another Eagle project was updating computers over two weekend days with just two scout volunteers. My S's project involved renovating the middle school band room & repairing & painting hundreds of stands, so it wasn't as simple as the latter project but less involved than the former. I don't believe S elaborated on his project for his essays, but I'm not sure. I had encouraged him to do so, but he's very independent.</p>
<p>"Being a president on a sports team, being the president of NHS, being class president, and being the president of French Club requires little dedication and time, if any. You're basically showing that you have a good personality. That does not mean you have the maturity to actually LEAD the team or organization that has appointed you as its "president"". Not true. Successful clubs and organizations have strong leaders, and if there is a chance to compete in this club or activity, then the club president excels where the team/club excels. Adcoms see that. Not all presidents are weak and lazy, in fact, most aren't.</p>
<p>Spin Doctor & others who think the Gold is only 30 hours–</p>
<p>I am a GS leader for 20 years and have lived through 3 reworkings of the Gold Award by the national organization, and have guided girls through two of them. The third is the newest and I have not yet had experience with it. </p>
<p>In the format our 11th gr troop is currently in the middle of, the Gold has 4 big steps or components–</p>
<ol>
<li>the Gold Leadership Award-- A. do 3 IPs (equivalent to merit badges) of girl’s choosing, and when completed, make short essay answers tying aspects of each of the three to components of the GS Law.</li>
</ol>
<p>B. Work through a “Focus Book” of your choosing, which mostly are about setting and achieving goals, while on various topics such as swimming, writing, track, and a number of issues such as pressure to conform in looks etc</p>
<p>C. Log 30 hours in a leadership role which can be in school government, or assisting running younger Scout troops, or planning and running badge workshops for younger girls, or other non Scout programs such as at youth camps or tutoring, etc. The girl must be the one planning & running it for it to count as leadership. The 30 hr do not have to all be on the same thing.</p>
<p>D. Another set of brief processing writing</p>
<ol>
<li> Earn the Gold Career Award:</li>
</ol>
<p>A. Log 40 hours in any of the following–internships, paying jobs, partnering with GS council staff, visiting colleges (eating in the caf doesn’t count!), organizing a career fair for younger girls or your age group, etc. </p>
<p>B. More writing concerning your own “ideal” job, following the 40 hours. </p>
<ol>
<li>Earn the “4B Challenge”–used to be called the Senior Challenge – It is designed to walk the girl from looking at herself and improvements she can make within herself, to looking at the world around her and ways she can make a difference in it:</li>
</ol>
<p>A. Examine yourself and choose 2 skills you need to improve. Devise a method such as a journal or chart to keep track of your efforts and do so for a period of time, perhaps a month ormore. Document, then short writeup at end.</p>
<p>B. Learn about your community (whether your town, or county, or a larger extended community), its organizations, goverment, people resources, etc. </p>
<p>C. Discern what needs the community has and whether you can address any of these needs (This is where a project idea starts to take shape). Is it realistic? Is it sustainable? </p>
<p>D. Can you use people within the community as a network to achieve your project (eg, if you want to buid a trail in a park, is there a park, will the ranger welcome your idea, and so on). Who are they, how to contact, how to gain their support.</p>
<ol>
<li>The Gold Award Project
A. Plan it with your advisor, research what you will need, make a budget, raise money (if necessary) following the GS guidelines for earning money, review and follow safety standards, etc</li>
</ol>
<p>B. Write your proposal using the given format. Attend a Gold Award Board of your council and present & seek approval of your project. If they recommend revisions, make them and return for approval. </p>
<p>C. Do the project. It must take a minimum of 65 hours (planning and the project–planning may not take more than a certain percentage of the 65).</p>
<h2>D. Reflection and Evaluation. Just what it sounds like. What did I learn, how would I do it different if I did it again, etc. You write it up and return to the Council’s Closing Review Panel. </h2>
<p>I’m sorry about the cliquish troops and other reasons some girls leave Scouts, but the failure of their leaders to turn the girls from that stuff, and also the lack of inclination towards outdoors activities on the part of some troops, does not mean all Girl Scvout troops are like that! </p>
<p>My daughters have beach-camped, canoed the Boundary Waters, whitewater rafted, woods-camped, lean-to winter camped, and rock climbed and they are/were not even in the most outdoors oriented troops in town. If a leader is not able or does not desire to do these things (I have Crohn’s disease which makes some of these things impossible for me), there are ways to find them for the girls in the troop who want them. </p>
<p>Congratulations to all the Eagle Scouts! Yes, it does matter, and not only in college admissions.</p>
<p>I’m proud to be an Eagle scout. Anyone that discredits the integrity of the rank is just ignorant. </p>
<p>Scouting makes boys into men. True men that is. Life Skills, survival skills, self-discipline and character. Scouting helps young men succeed now as well as later on in life.</p>