Early Admission to Yale, Harvard...?

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

<p>As everybody knows, with senior year come tough decisions. I'm faced with a doozy of a tough decision right now.</p>

<p>Should I apply to Yale or Harvard early action (non-binding and single-choice)? Or should I consider anywhere else for early action? Knowing that I have a small chance of getting accepted to either one, which one should I apply to early to give myself the best shot of getting in? I also have to consider my interests; I'm thinking pre-med, but I'm pretty wishy-washy, so I could switch to engineering due to my math obsession or even graphic design or... The possibilities are endless. ):</p>

<p>Test Scores:</p>

<p>2390 SAT (superscoring: 800, 800, 800)
235 then 237 on PSAT (240 if you superscore--I wish!)
MathII 800, Biology 790, Chemistry 750, Literature 750
35 ACT (I scored that 2+ years ago--retook it and hoping to make that 36!)
4.0 GPA (unweighted, but my school knocks off any points over 4.0)
School does not rank</p>

<p>AP:
Biology: 5
English Language: 5
Spanish: 4
Physics B: 4
Government: 5
Art (Drawing): 3
BC Calculus: 5</p>

<p>(AP Scholar with Distinction)</p>

<p>Extra information:
I go to a private school and am a white female.
I'm a black belt in Shotokan karate. I've been on the varsity quiz bowl team since 9th grade. We qualified for nationals every year, and I've been captain since 11th grade.<br>
I've won several art and writing awards (Sam Haskell Essay First Place/Rotary Club Scholarship, National Scholastic Silver Key, several regional golds, etc.) I also painted a mural in Ridgeland, Mississippi and have donated art to community organizations.<br>
I was a contestant in the Math Prize for Girls at MIT last year, and I routinely get the best in Mississippi on the AMC 12. I am passionate about orchids (and plants in general) and am the youngest member of the Mississippi Orchid Society. I'm in the Cum Laude Society and the National Honor Society and am the president (was competition coordinator last year) of Mu Alpha Theta at my school. I was the Treasurer of both the Spanish Club and of La Sociedad Honoraria Hispanica. I'm a member of the Literary Magazine staff and was a contributor last year.<br>
I was one of a Jackson magazine's "25 Students Who Will Change the World."
I got some college credit (passes and A's) at the Mississippi Governor's School and at the Trent Lott Leadership Institute.<br>
I have an interest in graphic design. This year, I'm writing/designing the electronic newsletter for the Boys and Girls Club of Central Mississippi. I also did the advertising for a math summer camp for gifted students grades 7-9 in which I was a teacher/problem writer. Other work experience includes a job (cleaning cages, running bloodwork, clipping toenails, entering client and patient info into computer, etc.) at my mother's veterinary clinic.
I love playing piano, flute, and ukulele. I have received 6 Superiors in a row at the Bach Piano Festival and got a scholarship to attend Piano Camp at Ole Miss. I also got a scholarship for a third-place finish in the Federated Women's Club's competition.</p>

<p><em>takes breath</em>
So, which school is a better fit? Which would give me a better chance of acceptance? Should I consider anywhere else for early action?</p>

<p>Sorry that this was so lengthy...</p>

2

<p>Okay, wow. I rarely respond to chance threads but your profile is incredible. Apply to whichever you like best - neither school has a statistically significant difference in admission rate for early (Yale tends to defer more, but there’s only one year of data to back that up, so not a reliable indicator). Your objective stats are in-line and I think your ex-curricular activities are pretty awesome, but you never know what’s out there.
You can consider absolutely any school you want for early action/decision - not sure whether being from Mississipi is considered a geographical hook, but it might be (and if that’s the case… further woah). I can’t tell you which school to apply to because both seem to cater to your wants and needs. Think of your own criteria - d’you want to go skiing or shopping or into New York or what… Academically, either school works.</p>

3

<p>Unless you commit a criminal offense, I see absolutely no reason for anyone to reject you. ZERO. You’re in everywhere, my guarantee</p>

4

<p>How about ED somewhere like Columbia? ED probably ups the early chance more than single choice EA.
Stats are great! Mississippi will help too.</p>

5

<p>Wow! Such speedy and insightful responses! Thank you!</p>

<p>danishpastry123–No criminal offenses as of yet! ;)</p>

<p>Murphy600–I have serious reservations about applying ED anywhere, even though I do like Columbia a lot… I am so hopelessly indecisive. :(</p>

<p>retrohippo–I do like skiing, but I wouldn’t let something like that make or break a college for me unless the decision were between two colleges on a very equal playing field, and I’m not sure of that yet.</p>

<p>I used to be dead-set on EA to Harvard, but ever since I went to that Yale information last night, I’m doubting that Harvard would really be my top choice. (I did visit Harvard, and it was about what I was expecting.)</p>

<p>I like Yale’s diverse course offerings and their “shopping period” for choosing classes a ton. However, I also heard that Yale students party a bit harder than their more stoic Harvard counterparts. I like to have fun, but I don’t want my academic goals to evaporate in an alcoholic vapor. Yale seems to be more inclusive with their residential college, but I don’t think I would have a problem at Harvard since I already know a few people there.</p>

<p>Both of them have considerable grade inflation, which is good for me as a possible pre-med…</p>

<p>Any input from people in my situation or from students at Harvard or Yale???</p>

6

<p>Have you checked graphic design classes that each school offers? What about engineering programs?</p>

7

<p>Harvard SCEA, Yale SCEA: Automatic high reach! I don’t see any hook. You need to be lucky to get in.</p>

8

<p>Good point. I’m not going to focus on graphic design because, in the end, I can do it on the side without a degree. But the same can’t be said for engineering. At this point, I think Yale would offer a better education in engineering, but neither one is superb.</p>

<p>20more–Should I shoot for something lower? I want to weigh the odds of single-choice at both schools plus any viable alternatives. See, originally, I thought that if I could possibly get into Harvard, it would be through applying early. But if I have little to no chance, why waste my single-choice option on Harvard?
I want to play this card as well as I possibly can.</p>

9

<ol>
<li>You are from M-i-s-s-i-s-s-i-p-p-i. Not exactly the breeding ground for the most intellectual students in the world. So geographical diversity is a small hook. </li>
<li>Your SATs are impeccable</li>
<li>If you are thinking about engineering, please do yourself a favor and go somewhere else. Yale and Harvard are NOT engineering schools. </li>
<li>Your reasons for why you like Yale so much do not sound like very strong reasons. Any state university has that “diverse course offerings” that you like, and the shopping period is not unique to Yale. Please do some more college search. </li>
<li>Your GPA seems great, but the only concern maybe the rigor of you schedule? Just hitting all grounds.
6.Why retake the ACT when you have a 2390 on the SAT? Some colleges may perceive that as just a person who has too much free time to retake tests despite the great scores. </li>
</ol>

<p>Based purely on the academic standpoint, you are set. Unless you are hiding a body, you are set. </p>

<p>Your ECs are nice. I don’t want to come off as condescending (especially since you accomplished things I have never had), but the state of Mississippi is not a academically competitive state. Even if you cannot control where you live, any applicant that has similar stats and lives in California will have more prestige than you. </p>

<p>That being said, a bad essay is really the only thing I can see causing rejection. I am pretty sure that whatever school you apply to, you will get in. </p>

<p>Yale/Harvard SCEA: High Match
Other RD: Low Reach.</p>

10

<p>I have always taken every honors course my school offers and all the APs that I can work into the schedule. I don’t think that will be my problem.
I DO think that my extracurricular don’t show enough depth. I’m certainly not going to find the cure for cancer with my community involvement. :(</p>

<p>I have competed in math on a national level as the only kid from MS (and forgot to add that I scored perfect on some kind of “International Calculus Test”), so I hope I’m not a stupid kid who just looks relatively smart compared to a bunch of stupid kids. (Although I personally think that Mississippians are underrated.) And I realize that it means almost nothing to get first in the state of MS. But I also know that my school didn’t offer the kind of intense classes offered in other areas of the country (ex. Discrete, AP Physics B, Art History, Prob and Stat, Computer Languages/Programming, Philosophy, etc.).</p>

<p>I took the ACT again to have a shot at the STAR Student Award–about $24,000. I can’t afford to not shoot for that!</p>

<p>Oh, and I realize that all Ivies have awesome courses. Harvard actually offers more (in shear number) than Yale does. I just saw a merging of different fields and free-ness in Yale’s offering that went a little beyond in my opinion.<br>
But then again, I haven’t even been to Yale’s campus, and I hear the New Haven is in a pretty sad state, so I may hate it.</p>

<p>Thanks again for everyone’s time and input! I’ve driven my school counselor crazy already.</p>

11

<p>I LOVE MIT for engineering (gotta love all the math everywhere!), but I’m not so into applied as am interested in theoretical. Plus, if I decided to go pre-med, my GPA would be shot.</p>

12

<p>Just saw that Harvard has a shopping period too, albeit shorter.<br>
But still, the things the Yale alum stressed were the things that were important to me.
Harvard, on the other hand, talked about how I could have fun and stay in a nice dorm, which aren’t my top priorities at all.</p>

<p>Even so, I think I’m leaning back towards Harvard again since they will probably admit a higher percentage of their early applicants…</p>

13

<p>I will be very honest.</p>

<p>I think you have better than average chances at Harvard and Yale since you are not Asian and from Mississippi.</p>

<p>“Yale/Harvard SCEA: High Match”
Never heard of such a thing!</p>

14

<p>I think you have a good shot at wherever you want to imply. Eek people on here make me feel so unimpressive, really >></p>

15

<p>You have a strong app. You’ll get in pretty much everywhere…but I think you already knew that.</p>

<p>FWIW, the selection criteria for that STAR scholarship are rather amusing. Using the ACT score as the most important quantitative measure to rank students for the awards is asinine…particularly considering how “teachable” the test is and how many affluent families pay for test prep tutoring.</p>

<p>My advice is to apply to all of the schools regular decision. That way you’ll be able to compare the offered financial aid packages at the same time. At least that’s what I did because it mattered to me. Full disclosure: philosophically, I’m against the whole EA/ED process. I think it provides a mechanism for legacies and athletes to (sort of) circumvent the “regular” admissions process.</p>

<p>Do yourself a favor – visit the campuses of both schools before you decide at which school you will matriculate. Stay with students if you can arrange it. Yale is a great school…but New Haven blows. The Boston/Cambridge area is much better…all-around.</p>

<p>Attend the Harvard pre-frosh weekend called “Visitas” in the Spring. You’ll get a chance to meet the kids who will be in your incoming class. It will make your choice an easy one.</p>

<p>Good luck with the application process…</p>

16

<p>Bartleby007–I completely agree with everything you said. Awesome advice.
Totally right about the STAR thing; the ACT is a crumby test. (Almost everyone agrees that it doesn’t actually test how much you know; it just measures how well you can take the ACT.)</p>

<p>But thanks again to everybody! CC is awesome! I actually had an old account to discuss AMC’s (forgot all my account info), and even then, you all were extremely helpful.</p>

17

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<p>You frankly have a profile that is a better fit for MIT than either Harvard or Yale. If you are seriously interested in engineering, there is just no contest. You will be very lonely as an engineer at either Harvard or Yale. In terms of math, around 40 of the top 100 at the Putnam come from MIT every year. The depth of talent is simply unmatched. As far as premed goes, MIT grads do very well. Maintaining a reasonably high GPA is definitely feasible especially since research work can be performed for credit and very late drop dates. Pretty much all the premed requirements are part of the GIRs which means you can be done with them by the end of sophomore year and take the MCAT then. My D graduated a year ago from MIT and is now in med school. Pretty much all premeds who applied in her year were admitted. </p>

<p>You should pick the school where you have the best fit and not second guess where you think you may have the best shot for grad school. You only attend college once. At the top level, it is the student that makes the difference, not the school.</p>

18

<p>Harvard’s Math 55 is more challenging than any MIT course.</p>

19

<p>cellardweller–This is what I was really looking for: personal experience. It sounds like your daughter was satisfied with her experience at MIT as a pre-med.
Another thing I forgot to mention is that I like programming. I never advanced beyond writing calculator games (self-taught), but I think, with some instruction, I might get interested in serious computer programming. So for that too, MIT would be much better…</p>

20

<p>She loved her experience at MIT and did not feel it hurt her as a premed. She did research all years after freshman year in the BCS Department which houses the largest neuroscience center in the world. Her lab even has a dedicated fMRI system to work with. She is actually continuing doing research while in medical school and now working on neural implants for Parkinson’s. She also took lots of humanities classes which are some the hidden gems at MIT. She learned some programming mostly using Matlab and some python as part of her experimental design work. She did get great premed advising: her advisor was a Professor at Harvard Med with which MIT has a joint graduate program. She also volunteered at Mass General. </p>

<p>Sure, she needed to watch her GPA but as long as she did not overload on classes, she was fine. She felt the classes were challenging but also graded fairly. There is no grading on a curve, so you don’t get penalized by taking classes with grad students for instance which my D sometimes did. You have fairly constant reviews so you know pretty quickly how you are doing. You can even take a class as Exploratory if you are not sure how well you will do and can drop it after the final if you don’t like your grade. </p>

<p>There could be very legitimate reasons why somebody may not want to attend MIT, if you hate math or want to major in history for instance, but being a premed should not be one of them.</p>