<p>hkshah,</p>
<p>your financial situation seems a good match for getting a substantial aid package at Brown. Are your gpa/tests/extracurricular also a good fit to the typical freshman at this school?</p>
<p>hkshah, I agree with littlegreenmom. It sounds like you are in a good situation for an ED app. The only question I'd throw in to consider is any other assets your parents might have such as real estate (not so much the primary home you live in, but any other real estate), investments, substantial savings accounts, trust funds, etc. If there is nothing there that might change the way the financial aid office sees your family circumstances, then I think an ED application would be a good choice... assuming you have the grades/scores.</p>
<p>And if, for some reason, the aid package is insufficient and you can't negotiate something better, you can definitely be released from your ED agreement to attend. No one is going to take a kid whose parents are earning less than 60K and insist that yes, they can afford an Ivy League school with only partial aid. It just won't happen. Don't worry.</p>
<p>A few other thoughts:</p>
<p>after looking at Brown's website, want to make sure these things do not apply to you </p>
<ul>
<li>parent's remarriage - non-custodial parents</li>
</ul>
<p>-untaxed social security or pension income</p>
<p>here is the link to go over the specific rules for Brown's financial aid:
<a href="http://financialaid.brown.edu/Cmx_Content.aspx?cpId=298%5B/url%5D">http://financialaid.brown.edu/Cmx_Content.aspx?cpId=298</a></p>
<p>im a rising junior right now (i want to be prepared for my future), and i also want to apply early to an ivy. my family's income is 72k, and we're having trouble paying off our house...</p>
<p>can you tell me which schools can possibly give me the best deal? here are my prospective schools:
-brown
-dartmouth
-stanford (as good as an ivy)
-upenn
-northwestern(i like the hmpe)</p>
<p>can you give me your feedback? thanks</p>
<p>It's hard to say, stl2cali2k1, without know a little more than you ought to share on a site like this. All of them should provide decent aid, but your family income may be a little high for getting full aid from Northwestern... but not sure of that since their policies changed recently. Stanford doesn't have a binding early decision option, but instead a single-choice-early-action (non-binding) that may not actually confer any increased odds in getting accepted.</p>
<p>Wait until you're fairly close to application time and check their financial aid info on their websites for the most up-to-date information. Financial aid policies are going through many changes right now, mostly to the benefit of the students.</p>
<p>Remember along with family income you should consider other assets... it's not just based on income at any of those schools. However, they are generous schools and should help you out if you get accepted.</p>
<p>You are taking a risk applying ED anywhere if you need a certain amount of money. Although certain schools are considered generous with financial aid and the estimates are reasonably accurate, if there is something you missed that falls into the gaps, you are going to be in trouble. Also, you cannot compare offers. I know kids who got substantially more generous packages from one school than another for no apparent reason. Some schools have merit within need that they can package though they do not give out this money unless the student qualifies for financial aid. That can often cover the student's contribution and other monies. I know for a fact that Colgate, for instance, does this on occasion, as does Cornell. When your family is tight enough for money, even a couple of thousand dollars of student contribution can be God sent. You simply cannot compare offers and see what is out there when you apply ED. Also since the year is not over when you apply ED, there is a possibility that something may change in your parents' situation in the last few months of the year to affect the financial aid estimate. Until those final tax figures are in, the fin aid is not definitie. </p>
<p>Yes, you can get out of ED if you decide you cannot live with the school's offer. But it is not as simple as saying or writing those words. First you have to examine an inadequate offer, call and let fin aid know, negotiate, often times send supporting documents, wait for them to do a recalculation. In the mean time, the clock is ticking. And your name is on the accepted for ED list that is circulated among a number of colleges which means you will be dropped from consideration from them unless you let each and every one of them know that you are reneging on ED and need to kept in consideration. I can tell you right now that this situation is not going to be a particularly happy piece of news to add to your apps. Admissions directors HATE ED renegers. That is the one list of info that they share with each other. You know the risk you are taking and you, your parent and sometimes your counselor are signing off on that risk when you apply ED. You are also talking to them right before they go off for winter break and before the biggest deluge of applications at the busiest time of the year for them, and mistakes are easily made. </p>
<p>If you then withdraw your app to Brown and start from square one, you have now lost your first choice school and have to hope the others end up accepting you and are more geneorus. I really don't think this is a particularly good situation for anyone. The college process is fraught with enough angst as it is. To add the scenario of having to renege on ED into the pot is making life even more complicated and stressful. If you apply ED, you had better prepare yourself about scraping up money if the aid is not what you had hoped it would be or the tedious process of negotiating and possibly reneging on the acceptance.</p>
<p>Based soley on the question asked, I would say Dartmouth and Stanford (if you have no stepparent(s),no substantial assets, your parents only have their primary home and they do not own a business). Your parents income is too high for the low/middle income initiatives at Penn and Brown.</p>
<p>At Dartmouth</p>
<p>
[quote]
Key elements of the initiative, which will go into effect for the coming academic year, include:</p>
<ol>
<li>Free tuition for students who come from families with annual incomes below $75,000</li>
<li>Replacing loans with scholarships</li>
</ol>
<p>Dartmouth</a> News - Dartmouth announces new financial aid initiative - 01/22/08</p>
<p>
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Stanford...</p>
<p>
[quote]
</p>
<p>Stanford University today announced the largest increase in its history for its financial aid program for undergraduates. </p>
<p>Under the new program, parents with incomes of less than $100,000 will no longer pay tuition. Parents with incomes of less than $60,000 will not be expected to pay tuition or contribute to the costs of room, board and other expenses. Students will still be expected to contribute their earnings from work during the summer and academic year. </p>
<p>The program also eliminates the need for student loans. </p>
<p>Stanford</a> enhances undergraduate financial aid program</p>
<p>
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I would not count on those programs. Especially if you are close. The final numbers might be over the threshhold, you may be missing something, your parents may be leaving something out. But the need figure can still remain the same. Until you get those final numbers, it is not guaranteed.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse:
in ur last post u said that u should not count on these programs...and u r extremely against this idea of ED...did u have a bad experience w/ it or did some1 u kno have a bad experience? is that y ur so against it?</p>
<p>littlegreenmom and 'rentof2: </p>
<p>thank u for ur responses...they are greatly appreciated
to answer ur question about test scores/ECs:
i have taken the hardest classes offered at my school (APs and IBs) and gotten high 90s in all of them, i am retaking the SATs in october and should get somewhere between 2200-2300, and I should be in the top 10 of my class...ECs, I won't write them all out but some include National honor society, volunteering at the hospital, and captain of Science Olympiad team
but the main thing that my peers and counselor feel will set me out is my passion for medicine</p>
<p>and 'rentof2 my parents don't have ne other substantial assets besides our house and cars</p>
<p>littlegreenmom: all of those things that u wrote down (divorced parents and such) do not apply to me either</p>
<p>so u think i should go for it?</p>
<p>hkshah, if you were my kid I'd encourage you to go for it. In fact I did encourage my own kid to apply ED with a similar financial situation, and with a great result. Most of the kids my son knows who got into very competitive schools did it with ED applications.</p>
<p>When people say it's a big risk, that may be for families with a certain income, but it's not true for a kid from a family with low-50K income, no assets, and applying to a 100%-of-need-met school with no student loans. Let common sense guide your choices, not unfounded fear.</p>
<p>You may want to find out how Brown will assess the value in your parents' home, but even if that generates a little higher EFC than you'd expect, since there are no other student loans in Brown's financial aid awards you could always borrow a little to help your parents make up the difference. (I don't think the value of the house will be a big issue, mind you, but just covering all scenarios here.) </p>
<p>If it's your first choice school, I would definitely do an ED application given your particular circumstances... which is not to say it's a good choice for someone else. Everyone's circumstances are different and need individual consideration.</p>
<p>Definitely get those SATS scores up in the range you're shooting for. ED can give an admissions boost, but for very competitive schools like Brown it only gives a boost (probably a slight one at that) to applicants that are in range of other admitted students.</p>
<p>Thank you very much for all the replies! No, i don't fall in the category of divorced parents, and my parents don't own a business. I was kinda wavering between dartmouth and stanford. who knows... i got 2 more years left of high school, and anything can happen</p>
<p>and if you apply ed... can't you still apply regular decision?</p>
<p>stl2cali2ki, if you are accepted ED you are expected to withdraw any other applications (EA or regular) that you already have out to other schools. You also agree not to submit any new applications at that point. If you aren't willing to do that you should not apply ED.</p>
<p>If you apply ED and are not accepted, definitely apply anywhere you want to in regualar decision.</p>
<p>My son applied ED, and did not submit any other applications but he did have a lot of the work done ahead of time in case he was not accepted at the ED school, since the regular decision deadlines came quite quickly after the ED decisions were mailed out. He has already sent his teacher recs to the schools he planned on applying RD to in case he was rejected or deferred ED, as well as his transcripts. He held off on sending test scores since there is a fee for each one sent, and he didn't submit the application itself ahead of his ED decision because again there is often a fee associated with the application. He did have a few all-purpose essays drafted and ready to go. Lucky for him though he did get accepted ED and didn't have to apply anywhere else. It made for a relaxed senior year.</p>
<p>I am risk adverse about these things. I have seen kids and families just not take something into account that has blown their fin aid plans out of the water. I have seen schools stint on financial aid. If someone who really knew what he was doing could look at all of your financial data and come up with definite go ahead for ED fin aid, I suppppose you could do this safely. But even then, things can happen. Schools change financial aid policies. They change a lot of things. The big thing though is that there are differences in financial aid awards that cannot be predicted unless you can compare. Basically, you take a risk and you don't know if you can do better.</p>
<p>D and S applied early too, despite our need for financial aid. First, we chose need blind schools that promised to meet 100% of aid. Then I got a letter signed from admissions that we could be released from attendance if we decided we couldn't afford it. Gave a copy to GC who was satisfied and agreed to send out other app's should it not work it.</p>
<p>Also applied to EA schools whose applications went out at exactly the same time as ED school.</p>
<p>Had very good results.</p>
<p>Would do it again.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>the main thing that my peers and counselor feel will set me out is my passion for medicine>></p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>I haven't read this whole thread, but this post jumped out at me. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but LOTS of students applying to Stanford (and Dartmouth) have a "passion" for medicine...lots of premed wannabees. I don't think this will set you apart from the masses unless you have done something very notable in the field of medicine.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You also agree not to submit any new applications at that point.
[/quote]
That statement does not match my understanding of ED at all ... I believe you can apply to as many RA schools as you wish for example ... and depending on the ED program and the other school lots of EA schools also. you "just" need to withdraw all those applications if you are accepted to the ED school.</p>
<p>"Then I got a letter signed from admissions that we could be released from attendance if we decided we couldn't afford it."</p>
<p>This is exactly why there is no risk in applying ED if you need financial aid. You will be greatly disappointed that you cannot attend your dream school, but you gave it your best shot, and you move on, entering the RD pools as if ED never happened.</p>
<p>3togo, yes, that's what I said. If you are accepted ED you agree to withdraw all applications, and you agree not to submit anymore <em>at that point</em> -- i.e., the point at which you are accepted ED.</p>
<p>ohhh... i see</p>