Early Decision - is it fair?

Parents Forum
161

That’s because the majority who use ED are on the wealthy end of the spectrum.

Because people in the middle can’t afford to give up the ability to compare awards.

Keep in mind that for many the fall-back option of an in-state public will not meet full need – and the family may be hoping that the privates will give better aid than the public – assuming their FAFSA EFC is less than full cost for the public – so it is not as if they can simply take for granted that there will be a more affordable option if the ED school seems too costly

162

I’m with Blossom in general. I do think that ED is primarily a function of private institutions and would probably only feel it unfair if it were a tool at public schools. I am far more concerned about state’s with costs that are getting very close to unaffordable in their public institutions even for the true middle class and how those schools would be managing admissions and financial aid.

163

Ok, I think there’s another aspect of ED that in unfortunate, besides the FA question.

It is pretty clear that at most schools, there is a real admissions advantage to applying early. This chart shows the ED & RD acceptance rates by school:

https://www.iecaonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Early-Decision-and-Regular-Decision-Acceptance-Rates-April-2018.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3oXgn9bEVEhtxyp8BHS36zyX4r3jUAqFx7pLNbiIPXEL9nYnWMqZl_hsg

But you just have one shot. So imagine that student (who is either full pay or definitely gettin 100% need, so comparing finances is not a major factor) who dreams of going to college A, where college A is a real stretch, but not absolutely out of the realm of possibility. The student’s test scores are in the top 25%, but they know it’s still such a crapshoot. But they would be over the moon to go there, and they’ve been working so hard their whole high school career for this opportunity. They also have college B, which is a good fit, and they’d be happy to go there, and if they apply early, they are likely to get in. And college C, which is their safety, and they will be pretty disappointed to go there, no matter how hard they’ve listened to the advice “find a safety you’d be thrilled to go to.”

In the best world, there would be no ED, they could apply everywhere and evaluate all of their options. But in the ED world, should they apply early to A or to B? If they go A and do not get in, then they are facing the stiffer RD acceptance rates even for college B, and may very well end up at college C. Or, if they are risk averse, they apply early to B and get in. Should they go for their dream? Or not?

I hate this aspect of strategizing. Sure, ED works great in select situations, and it’s lovely to have an early answer. But it prevents some kids from going for their dreams, or hurts some of the ones who go for it by relegating them to college C.

Of course, all of these kids are so darn lucky to first of all just be 18! How fun. They have their whole lives ahead of them, and college C may work out just great. Big picture this may all be fine. But if I could vote, there would be no ED. Everyone would hear back at the same time, so it wouldn’t be unusually stressful waiting until March. I think it’s hard because the kids waiting sometimes feel that everyone else is already in. I think it could be better.

Plus the FA stuff.

164

@calmom

This is not what I meant. I understand that what the FAFSA spits out as affordable is no where near affordable for many people. I understand all about the CSS. What I meant, and perhaps did not explain well, is that for people at the low end of the spectrum, where the EFC or some combination of EFC/CSS would be affordable, ED can work. I don’t have a link to share about the number of schools that offer a pre-read. The schools we visited stressed that it was available. I have no idea if any schools with ED would refuse to do this if asked. However, my point stand: those students who meet with the FA office and receive an affordable estimate can use ED.

For everyone who cannot get an affordable estimate, ED is really not available. For us, the EFC is really not affordable regardless of what schools may think, so merit must be factored into the equation.For you, it seems that you won’t really know what is affordable until later in the year. So neither of us can use ED. It isn’t quite fair, but probably not the largest unfairness either us face.

165

Again and again and again people have said that the majority of applicants overall to privates are more wealthy. That we know is true. You have no evidence that the proportion applying ED is higher than the proportion applying RD. It’s supposition. I actually believe that taking away ED at colleges that are fully committed to meeting full need would hurt more middle class students than it helps. Especially middle class kids with no other hooks. Since this isn’t a debate board and I’ve said my part, I’m out of the discussion.

166

At just about every school we visited admissions representatives mentioned that their financial aid offices were open and willing to help interested applicants determine what the financial responsibility of the parents/students would be.

I think you can shop around and still utilize ED as a tool. You just need to be organized and have all of your financial info in order so you can talk with with the financial aid offices prior to the ED submission dates.

So, if you go that route and determine what the expected price for each school how is that unfair? You can then apply ED or not. It’s your choice. If it’s not financially within reach you move on and continue to look for an option that works better.

167

We are middle class and I didn’t even know what ED was until our first college tour last year. My first reaction was “for the rich, what a surprise!”
The truth is this entire process is exhausting. For the middle class, ED isn’t the problem. My kid, without private tutors, elite ECs, testing clinics and all the other crazy things I read about on here, got into his top 3 schools 1 EA and 2 RD. Unfortunately, despite saving for 18 years, these schools are not doable.

168

@EmptyNestSoon2 - Yes, such strategizing is a big part of it. The student you described, whose stats are in the top 25% for the “reach” college, which therefore is only a reach because it admits such an abysmally small percentage of applicants, is exactly the student who should apply ED to that college!

Applying ED gives the student an increased chance. Whatever buckets the student might fit that the college is working to fill for the next class- whether it be a student from Iowa or a tuba player or a Latina or a first generation student- can be filled by that student, as opposed to in RD when the college might already have enough kids in that bucket that the applicant does not stand out for it.

That’s the beauty of ED for applicants. It lets you demonstrate your true desire to attend that college and to be considered before the class is already partially filled (and sometimes, as much as half a class is filled through ED).

You are right that there is a risk of ending up at College C instead of College B if College A does not work out. But that student’s best chance of being admitted to College A is an ED application. Just pick those College C’s carefully, and demonstrate lots of interest at the College B’s so they do not suspect you prefer the College A’s!

169

TheGreyKing,
I agree with you, but this is the issue my daughter just faced, and it all worked out! However, she didn’t get into college A early (SCEA), she was deferred. And that was scary and we were really second guessing our decision from December until last week.
She applied early to Princeton and was deferred. With HYPS, you are not allowed to apply to other schools early action except for state schools (it’s called single choice early action). She was actually deferred from the 2 state schools she applied to (this part was the surprise. We wonder if it was yield protection, but regardless, we had kind of counted on these and they fell through). Sooooo, a long wait to ivy day. Hopes were low because the RD rates are so minuscule. However, she actually got into 4 of the 5 ivies she applied to! The one “no” was Princeton. She was absolutely ecstatic, and it all had a very happy ending. However, it was a big risk. It would have been much safer for her to apply ED somewhere a little easier to get in. She spent her “one shot” on Princeton and it didn’t pan out. But she got into Harvard and Yale, just showing what a random process it can be.

Anyway, I know ED can work for some, but I think if you look system-wide, it obviously benefits the colleges, but I think it forces kids into making decisions when in my opinion, they should be allowed to evaluate all of their options and then decide.
I’m so glad she gets to go to accepted student’s days for multiple schools to further evaluate her options. If she did ED, she would have been forced into a decision in the fall without the benefit of all she will learn at accepted student visits. I just wish they all could have all of their options to choose from.
But mostly I think these kids will all do great wherever they land, and the angst that some associate with this process will fade into the background as they move forward.

170

The interesting thing is that you often don’t know what the best outcome is until much later. D16 was unable to apply ED to her clear first choice. It was a stressful year of waiting. In the end, she was admitted to the first choice but by then her thinking had changed. She ended up choosing a different school that had accepted her early. We often talk about how lucky she was that she couldn’t apply ED.

I am not saying, everything works out for the best. I’m not naive enough to believe that. Only that sometimes you don’t realize you have been given a gift by not getting what you thought you wanted.

171

“And again – from the point of view of someone who has had the opportunity to compare awards – those numbers can be all over the map.”

Yep. And even if the net costs are close, some may have more loan $ in the package, etc.

Also, bear in mind that what seems like a small difference to an upper-middle-class person is much more significant to a lower income family. A difference of a 2-3 thousand dollars wouldn’t be a huge deal fir my family so if I was reasonably sure an estimate was that close I could tell my kid to go for it. For a lot of families that difference is much more significant and even if they maybe could stretch and afford a couple of thousand more, they’d definitely want to know if another option was that much cheaper.

172

Ok I completely agree with the stress and difficulty for the kids from lower socio-economic levels, and the impact on their decisions.
But a tiny point of devil’s advocate. I myself was a “first generation” kid—back before that was a thing and there was no “hook” associated with it ;-). Aid was not as generous then; I don’t think any of the schools were need blind or meets full need, and I know my alma mater was not. But i was super-fortunate that my parents had scraped savings throughout my childhood (we never ate out, no vacations except camping, loads of hand-me-downs and my mom even sewed.). I’m not saying we were in dire circumstances as some children are. But through their frugality and my grandparents also using savings, they made it work for me. And here’s the good news. Of course I worked during the summers at the highest paying gigs I could find (waitressing can really pay off!). I also worked during the school year in a variety of jobs, and did not find that to be remotely difficult even with balancing schoolwork and some activities and meeting the love of my life. But when I graduated from my top college, I got an extremely lucrative job, and after a couple years of living below my means, I paid my parents and grandparents back a very hefty chunk.
Now, I didn’t even consider going into a dreamy lower-paying job right out of college. I knew I wanted to pay back the “loan” and so I focused on a practical, high-paying career, even if it wasn’t my fantasy. But if you checkout the salaries of brand new graduates of top schools, it is crazy, but they are making over $60,000 to start, some over $80,000.

So while I worry so much about certain types of students taking on loans/debt, and the burden is absolutely awful in some cases, I do believe for top students who are willing to focus on high-paying careers at least until they pay off their loans, loans are not the horrible thing some people think they are. It can be ok to graduate knowing you have to save money to pay off some of your educational expense.
So while I agree with the poster above about a 2-3 thousand dollar difference being viewed as a very, very big deal for some families, I also think that in many circumstances, with the college’s help securing loans, it can absolutely make sense to think longer-term.
Uh oh, I’m guessing this post won’t go over well!

173

@EmptyNestSoon2

I have no problem with a student taking on some debt - the federal loan limits seem appropriate. Of course, that amount is not nearly enough to make a dent in college costs for most kids, even at in-state publics.

My problem is with parents taking on significant debt with the hope they will be paid back by their kids. If often doesn’t happen, even when kids graduate from top schools. If parents take on a small amount of debt that they feel reasonably comfortable servicing even if they are never paid back, that’s fine. But often that is not enough to pay today’s college costs. Not to mention that not all parents are even eligible to take on debt.

174

CC forums are almost universal in recommending “fit” as the best criteria to choose a school, but Ed makes it much, much harder to determine the right fit. My DS19 wanted to apply RD, see where he got in, then go to the admitted students days to decide where he would like to spend the next 4 years. I guess those days are over - for the next three, we’ll have to go visit a bunch of schools, apply to one ED after just an information session/tour, and hope that the one DC chooses will be a match for acceptance. Even if everything goes well and DC gets accepted ED, it is much more likely to turn out to be the wrong fit. A good analogy might be an arranged marriage. Could work, but caveat emptor.

175

@EmptyNestSoon2 stated “It is pretty clear that at most schools, there is a real admissions advantage to applying early. This chart shows the ED & RD acceptance rates by school:”

I don’t think this is clear. Recruited athletes are told they need to go ED. They have close to a 100% admit rate, as the coach will have them get a pre-read so he knows whether to waste his time on them. If you are not a recruited athlete, the acceptance rate is lower than shown in the chart you linked to. Unfortunately, no college tells us how many recruited athletes are in the ED pool, but I think it is higher than any of us want to assume. For many schools, the number of recruited athletes exceed the number of scholarship athletes.

176

@bp0001 I think ED is a real advantage for students who might otherwise fall pray to “yield protection.” These are kids who are clearly qualified to attend but are wait listed because the school fears they are only using it as a safety. These are the high stat kids who are wait listed by Lehigh and Skidmore because the school thinks they are going to go to Brown. ED is the ultimate demonstration of “interest” because you are guaranteeing that you will go.

There are also schools who will only give the legacy preference to kids who apply ED. If you apply in the RD round, you get no legacy bump.

Then there are schools who are so protective of their yield that they take a huge percentage of the class ED. American University is an example of this. Last time I looked, it was nearly a safety ED and nearly a reach RD. I believe this is going to get worse as kids apply to more and more schools. The schools will use ED as a way to have some control over how many kids are attending. No school wants to get caught with too many or too few kids accepting their offers.

177

Bp0001
You are correct that there are “hooked” students in the ED pool. If I had my druthers, that chart would be amended to subtract them out, because for most students, those spaces do not apply.

But I did do the math on the schools my own child was looking at, and there remained a huge advantage (although not quite as large as the chart implies). For example, at Brown, they accepted ~750 students ED, and they have 215 athlete spots. And then even if you guess that another 50+ or so have some other hook that puts them over the edge into acceptances when they might otherwise be rejected, as I recall, the ED rate dropped to somewhere around 14% or 15% instead of the 22% shown in the chart, which is still a great multiple over the RD rate. But yes, this is all murky and it’s not always possible to find all the specific data we’d like!!

I definitely recommend everyone try to really research the institutions they are interested in. It can be possible to find the number of athletic recruits and other hooked categories that don’t apply to you, at least roughly. A lot of the party line is, “well there’s no real advantage ED vs RD because our ED pool is historically the strongest candidates”, but I really think the data shows otherwise in most cases. Although the chart is illuminating—there are definitely some schools where there is no apparent advantage. Looking at Clark, it almost looks like a (non-statistically significant) disadvantage to apply early!!

178

@gallentjill I agree with all your points. I think the issue with legacies is worse than you present. In RD, I think some schools mark you down. You already knew everything about the school, and it clearly wasn’t your 1st choice. If you are a legacy and don’t go ED, it can be hard to get in RD.

179

@EmptyNestSoon2 Your analysis of Brown ED is interesting. When we attended an info. session at Brown (summer 2017, I think) the admissions rep made a point of explaining that there was actually no difference in admission rates when the pools were adjusted for “hooked” students. I found that a little hard to believe but I guess we will never know if there is/how large the bump is for the ED commitment.

180

CU,
Yes Brown absolutely says that and I really think it’s inaccurate. I don’t necessarily think they have any reason to “lie”…first of all, they’d probably love to receive even more ED applications, so I don’t see why they’d discourage it. (There are some schools where the party line DOES let you know that there’s a real advantage…I think Tulane is one). But I think maybe they haven’t run the math the same way. Directionally, they are correct, because they know there are quite a few “definites” in the ED round (eg athletes, etc), but those “definites” do not fully account for the higher rate of acceptance. And in reality, there ought to be some bump for applying early…the student is giving the school the gift of commitment, the school should give the student a gift in return. Otherwise why commit?

I also think it’s important to remember that some of the students who have a hook could be the most superstar students, and even if hook advantages disappear, those kids would sail in on their merits. A very good portion of legacy students, URM, recruited athletes, first gen kids, etc can ALSO be the smartest kids at their schools, who have done rockstar things. Yes we know that on average the recruited athletes have lower scores, but there are plenty of athletes who are way above average (and pull that off even with devoting ridiculous hours to their sports). And not just stars in high school, but continue to star in college. In my Phi Beta Kappa ceremony (many moons ago), there were plenty of athletes, legacy kids, etc. So just taking the athlete numbers into account, it could be fair to say that 215 of the ED spots are reserved for recruits at Brown, but maybe only 150 of them are actually taking advantage of the boost. (Ie in my example, a non-recruit would still have a hard time competing against 65 of those athletes even if they eliminated the hook). I don’t know if this makes sense, but in my mind even if around 300 kids who are accepted early to Brown have strong hooks, I would probably only subtract out around 230 kids to develop my new adjusted ED acceptance rate.