Early Decision: To Apply or Not to Apply?

Parents Forum
1

<p>Both my twins want very, very much to apply early decision to their No. 1 LACs. They feel that they know where they want to go and that applying ED will greatly increase their chances, since ED acceptance rates at the schools they want are around 40%, while RD acceptance rates are around 20%.</p>

<p>However, almost everything that I read here on cc or in the college advice books advises against applying ED if financial aid is needed, which in our case it most definitely is. They say that if you apply ED, you cannot compare financial aid packages and as a result you lose your bargaining power to obtain a better package. </p>

<p>Question: Does anyone have any first-hand experience with this issue? Do the financial aid packages offered to ED students differ substantially from those that are offered to RD students? </p>

<p>I recall an earlier post from a Pomona student with substantial financial need who applied ED and was quite satisfied with his award. We also have a friend who was accepted ED at Columbia a few years ago whose family had a low EFC and he too was given a very generous aid package.</p>

<p>Any and all advice most welcome!</p>

2

<p>Well when you say generous aid one presumes you are not referring to loans. I think your question depends on the school. In some cases it also depends on the quality of the applicant. I think the need will be met and the question is grants versus loans. How much do loans make you squirm?? That might also be what you want to research.</p>

3

<p>I definitely agree with hazmat. I was accepted to Columbia RD for this past admissions cycle and I can say with my income, it is amazing how Columbia came up with such an aid package as they did. They required me to take out a whopping $8,000 in loans alone and have a family contribution of $3,000. My family income is pretty low, and I was very shocked at the fact Columbia would offer me that kind of package.</p>

4

<p>I agree above in terms of specific advice. In the experience of my best friend, applying early worked even though he needed loans. He called the university, and told them that he could not go if they didn't give him extra money, and they did.</p>

<p>This had the downside of raising ethical questions. Should he have applied early if he knew he couldn't pay the given money? I'm not sure about the answer, but from a technical perspective, it shouldnt' be a problem.</p>

5

<p>They say that if you apply ED, you cannot compare financial aid packages and as a result you lose your bargaining power to obtain a better package. </p>

<br>


<br>

<p>Instead, it's about being able to compare the breakdowns of "free money" (grants vs. loans and work study) and merit scholarships from several schools that's important. </p>

<p>More research and information is needed. You need to ask each school:</p>

<ul>
<li>What's the average student debt upon graduation? </li>
<li>What's the average work study grant?</li>
<li>What's the average financial aid grant?</li>
<li>What's the average merit scholarship and do your girls have a chance of being considered for merit, even if they apply ED?</li>
<li>What percentage of students get 100% of their need met? THis is different than the number schools typically tout which is "X% of our students get financial aid." You want to know how many don't have their need FULLY met.</li>
<li>Do the financial aid and merit scholarship packages of ED and RD acceptees differ? Another way of asking this question is to ask all of the above questions but just for ED acceptees (I.e., what's the average debt for ED acceptees? What's the average merit award for ED acceptees?) </li>
<li>How do students who don't have their need met finance their education?</li>
<li>What's the typical financial aid package going to look like for someone in your income bracket with twin daughters in school?</li>
</ul>

<p>The financial aid office should be able to fill you in on all or at least most of this information. If the schools both guarantee to meet 100% of financial need and do so for 100% of students, and your daughters and you can live with the average amount of debt and work study (and understand that both may be higher), then you can make a better informed decision about applying ED. If the schools can not or refuse to tell you all of the above, I would be very cautious about applying ED, even though there are other sources where you can get that information.</p>

6

<p>There have been several students and parents who post on this board who have been quite satisfied with the financial packages that they've received from their ED schools. Your ED financial package will not necessarily be lower than what you would get should you apply RD. What is unsettling about ED is that you have no way of knowing what you might have received from another college and thus used to leverage an even better offer from your first choice. </p>

<p>I assume you are talking about need based aid, not merit aid. It would be logical to me for merit aid to be better for RD applicants as there's no reason for the schools to squander it on a captive audience. For need based aid, the formula is more -- but not entirely -- objective, so it's somewhat easier to predict.</p>

<p>It's not just the dollar amount, but also the proportion of grants to loans to work study that may vary from college to college, and from what I understand the variation can be great. Most colleges will offer some kind of input on the general range of need based aid that you could expect to receive, either through on line calculators or through personal conversations with the finaid departments. Schools WANT to encourage ED applicants; if what's holding you back is the uncertainty of the potential aid package, I'd at least try to talk to the finaid office before eliminating the ED option.</p>

<p>If the projected range is acceptable to you (not guaranteed, mind you) and if you are willing to gamble that no other college will do better -- or if you would choose your ED school no matter what you are offered by another school, then ED can be worth the risk. To me, it's a matter of risk management. If you are comfortable with the risk, then ED is a good option as long as you've done your due diligence before taking the plunge. If you can't or won't afford the risk then it's not. </p>

<p>I would suggest that you ask the question on the individual boards of the colleges that your twins are interested in. Perhaps you'll find some ED acceptees who would share their experiences.</p>

7

<p>MotherLove, it is very possible that you can get excellent financial aid with an ED application... but there is no guarantee. The more complex your financial situation, the more unpredictable the aid package. </p>

<p>The problem is this: suppose your daughters get into their colleges, and you are not comfortable with the aid packages. You will have a choice: accept the college + struggle financially (maybe with huge loans you hadn't planned on) - or turn down the college and hope there will be better offers in the spring. Making the choice to turn down an ED college in December because of financial constraints must be heartwrenching. I know that my son had to turn down his first choice college because of lack of financial aid -- but at least that choice came in the spring, when he had good offers from other colleges in hand. It was much easier to get over the disappointment in that setting - in fact, I think it made him sour on his first choice college to see how stingy they were in comparison with the others, so in the end I think he was very happy and enthused with what was once his 2nd choice. </p>

<p>I know how hard it is -I can see the same sort of stats (double the chances) with a school that my d. is interested in. She hasn't asked about ED at this point, but she did ask me how much money we need in financial aid. Fortunately I was able to give her a ballpark dollar figure. I think my d. is becoming painfully aware of the $$ issue, early on -- and that is a positive thing in the long run. </p>

<p>I do think that the system is unfair, and puts kids who have financial need in a bind. I also think that many colleges that say that they are need-blind in fact are happy to use the ED process as a way of increasing enrollment of full-pay students -- they know full well that financially needy students are advised to avoid ED. </p>

<p>So ... as hard as it is, I think you need to encourage your daughters to look harder at other colleges. Yes, you can go with the ED process, but it is a big RISK financially. And you are going to be trying to put 2 kids through college, and so for you the worst case scenario would be for both twins to get into their ED schools, but to have both schools come up short with financial aid, but not quite short enough for you to get out of the ED commitment. So there you are: double whammy. Where another family, with one kid, might be able to swallow hard, dig deep, and come up with an extra $7K or so to make it all work out... for you, a $7K gap x 2 would be a $14K gap.</p>

8

<p>calmom,</p>

<p>Can you explain what you mean by with financial aid being "not quite short enough" to get out of the ED commitment?</p>

<p>When you get accepted ED somewhere, how long can you "legally" wait before withdrawing other apps? Can you wait for the other responses just out of curiosity and then turn them down without endangering your ED acceptance?</p>

9

<p>There very often is a big gap between what a college deems to be providing 100% need and reality. While there is no way that a college can force a family to go through on an ED commitment, it is an uncomfortable situation if the college offers substantial aid but it isn't what the family thinks they need. </p>

<p>Lets take an example - the FAFSA EFC is $10,000, and the family feels that with everyone pitching in, they can afford that amount. However, using the CSS Profile, the college calculates EFC at $15,000 - and also the financial aid requires a $4500 loan and and a work study allotment of $3000. So basically the family is looking now looking at paying $22,500 for college when they were hoping they would only have to pay $10K. (A loan is an amount that must be paid back; work study is not guaranteed and in any case is not a gift: it is a promise of a job)</p>

<p>The problem is - the family does not know for a fact that any other college will give better aid. The family will get pressure from the college, the school g.c. - and from the kid whose heart is set on that school - to go through with the deal. There is a risk that if the family turns down the ED school, that the name will be provided to other colleges and that will negatively impact admission chances. So the family feels torn and unsure. It's not as if the school hasn't given any aid, or if the aid award is clearly inadequate - its just that it is not what the family expected. </p>

<p>And no, the ED applicant can NOT wait for other awards out of "curiousity" - they need to make a decision right away, well before the student would get notification from any RD schools.</p>

10

<p>My older D did not apply ED to her 15 colleges. When the financial aid offer from her dream school fell short of the others, we called the FA office and they did renegotiate - quite generously. So these things do happen in real life. Applying RD saved D thousands of dollars less in loans.</p>

11

<p>To follow what Calmom said, also you ARE committed.If you apply to other colleges later in the same catagory as the ED college you may not be accepted at all. It's not apply early and see what happens financially everywhere else later.</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
When you get accepted ED somewhere, how long can you "legally" wait before withdrawing other apps? Can you wait for the other responses just out of curiosity and then turn them down without endangering your ED acceptance?

[/quote]
You must withdraw any other applications immediately. The form in which you accept the ED offer stipulates that and usually requires signature of student, parent and GC. Why would you wait for the other responses out of "curiosity?" The answers might tempt you and then you could be in a very difficult situation.</p>

<p>On rare occasions, one can get out of an ED acceptance with the school's acquiescence. But it is not pretty and, if not handled correctly, can result in your ED acceptance being reneged and other schools (who had accepted you) also reneging due to your failure to live up to the ED agreement. It can also have reverberations in your hs's relationship with the college for future students.</p>

<p>Be very wary. You can search for older ED pro and con threads and find my S' personal cautionary tale. We worked it out, with our GC's blessing, but it was not fun.</p>

13

<p>This is all true, I was shocked but it is.</p>

14

<p>At my HS we needed to document our withdraw of application document....and yes it was signed. I don't know why you think that waiting to see would help you in any way......you don't seem to understand that at many schools ED gives you a distinct advantage and thus you are gaining from the commitment. If you want to compare then you get less advantage. Is this a common discussion at your HS? I am wondering if you know folks who have done this and perhaps your HS has a "shadow" because of it? You need to find out how your guidance counselors work because this sounds scary to me if you are looking at selective schools.</p>

15

<p>Some years ago a young man applied to two top schools which claimed to provide 100% need-based aid. The difference between the two packages he received was $7k per year, or a total of $28k over four years.
As other posters mentioned, schools differ in what they deem an applicant to need and how they construct the aid package. Unless the gap is huge between what is offered and what you deem you need, it will be hard to turn down an ED offer without risking penalties.
Another story to remember is that of Evil Robot who was accepted SCEA by Yale but found, in the end, that Vanderbilt gave him a much more generous aid package. That's where he ended up going, very happily.</p>

16

<p>A lot depends on whether the college is "need-blind" re Admissions, and "100% need" re: fin aid. My S applied ED to Columbia after being assured they were both. We also have a low EFC, and he was accepted with a very decent fin aid package, which was supplemented by several outside shcolarships he received. But even without those, we would have been OK between need-based grants (which were the lion's share of the package) , work-study, and loans. We also established a close working raltionship with FA office early on, and found them terrific to work with. For colleges that are not 100% need, or if your definition of "need" differs with that of the college's, things can get more dicey. Columbia told us that an insufficient fin aod package is the only acceptable excuse for backing out of an ED acceptance, but there are very few of those, because they do promise 100$ need, and because once someone is accepted they really don't want to lose them due to this, and will negotiate. Good luck to you!</p>

17

<p>Folks who want MERIT aid are not great candidates for Ivy ED period. I know of one guy who turned down Yale for Duke and it was merit money. I don't see how this turned into a discussion about MERIT other than pointing out that ED pretty much excludes it. I guess I sometimes forget how much there is to learn about in this process and that risk personality plays a part in it.</p>

18

<p>D#2 is considering applying ED. </p>

<p>We have sat her down and explained the worst-case financial aid scenario. With spreadsheets and cold hard numbers. It was not pretty. She was a little shaken for a few days, but will overnight at her top choices to determine if one is worth it. </p>

<p>While she's there, we'll be in the FA aid office, getting a handle on what we might expect from them.</p>

19

<p>Start with the basics:</p>

<p>Cost of attendance - EFC (parent and student Contribution) = demonstrated need.</p>

<p>Demonstrated need may consist of the following</p>

<p>Self help aid (work study, subsidized, unsubsidized and perkins loans)
School Scholarships and grants
Federal grants (if applicable- PELL, SEOG)
State grants (if applicable)
PLUS Loans (parents Loans)</p>

<p>Demonsterated need means many things to many schools. A college can theoretically offer you a parent loan (where you can borrow the entire cost of attendance) and will have theoretically met your demonstrated need.</p>

<p>I agree with the posters when they say you must literally break down every package to see what "your out of pocket cost " (work study, loans and EFC) is going to be. You need to look at the average amount of debt that a student graduates with. </p>

<p>For example Cornell is a school with a reputation for not giving a lot of grant aid to families. Their packages come with loans off the bat;</p>

<p>Perkins loan
Subsidized loans
University loans</p>

<p>You should definitely look at their FA scenarios. Even though they use the cost of attendance for the Land grant schools, if they are giving out this kind of aid ($7820 in loans for a family that has a total EFC of $2680- parent $1,000 and student $1680) and your family is possibly a little richer, imagine what your package could be.</p>

<p><a href="http://finaid.cornell.edu/Shared/FAQ.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://finaid.cornell.edu/Shared/FAQ.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Dartmouth was my D's first choice but I knew we could not commit to ED so R applied RD. I know that she applied to 7 need blind schools all which would meet 100% of your demonstrated need. when you finished adding everything up there was close to 10,000 from the "best" to the "worse" pacakge. Daughter was able to negotiate her williams package with Dartmouth who met the williams package (which had a lower EFC, more grant aid, and smaller loans). My EFC was reduced by $1500 and the grant aid was increased by $4000. I thought that we would be hit with massive loans this year (because it may have been a teaser package to get us in the door) but Dartmouth was pretty consistent in sending a comprable package for second year . </p>

<p>Also look at what percentage of the class is being admitted ED. If close to 50% is being admitted ED, you may have to bite the bullet. However if 30 to 35% is being admitted ED, I would hedge my bets.</p>

20

<p>I don't believe the ED gives you that great of an advantage. Those stats frequently include all the legacy and employee applicants along with some seriously courted atheletes/talent. They also may have a greater number of students who had their act together throughout high school than the RD process...where some students apply almost randomly without being close to qualifying. Although many schools claim they are need blind in their acceptances..the distribution of aid seems to be fairly constant each year and that has led to questions about how blind certain institutions are. It may be that geographic distribution or spots dedicated to private high school graduates create this unnatural continutity. I believe a number of schools will give slight advantages to low EFC students if they qualify for higher pell grants over other low EFC applicants who do not. Need sensitive schools are different than need blind and you should know what you are applying into.</p>

<p>Financial Aid. Some schools now have caps on their student loans, ie. no financial aid package will result in more than $12,000 in student debt.
These schools may be a safer bet for financial aid acceptability. Ask the school what the highest debt a student has acquired at graduation, as well as the average. Some schools do not lend money to students whose family income is below a qualifying amount...those schools rely on grants and work study from the student...parent loans still exist. The first year financial aid package is often more generous than subsequent years so you might want to look at how financial aid will change over you childrens education and how it will be impacted by study abroad or intern programs.</p>

<p>Apply ED because it is the choice and because you are sure you will be able to afford it and are academically qualified for it. No one can ethically apply ED, (you agree to go if accepted) and then shop around for financial aid at other institutions after being accepted. There are stories of students who have tried and then had all acceptances pulled..there are also stories of students who unders severe financial stress and after speaking with their school withdraw their application to go to a local community college...I believe a student who plays a game with ED risks hurting future students from his or her high school..since the GC must sign the ED agreement as well.</p>

<p>Their are other options beside ED and you might want to investigate them with your choice schools. Good luck.</p>