<p>My S is not as good a student as my D. Is it possible to slip my S into same school as my D??? I remember when I was at Tufts, there were like tons of families. Any thoughts?</p>
<p>I think that at most schools, the only legacy that counts is a direct one: one of your parents needs to have received an undergraduate degree. Some schools, however, may give some preference to siblings of graduates or current students. I would contact the admissions office to find out which legacies matter.</p>
<p>Can I take my current senior's acceptances and defer one for the next kid???? I wish! :D</p>
<p>I believe it is slightly easier to get if you already have child there... but I think it's more of selling point on a "border-line" application. It couldn't hurt to have your S apply there just in case though.</p>
<p>I think there's a misperception that legacy status will make up for low grades and test scores. Not true. Being a legacy in most cases is a "tipping point," not a ticket to having the admissions committee overlook your grades/test scores. </p>
<p>Translation: Student A has stats in the midpoint of a school's acceptance group. So does Student B. But student B is a legacy. All things being equal that legacy status may be a tipping point in the choice between the two candidates. On the other hand, student C has GPA/stats way above student B. The legacy probably won't make the admissions committee pick student B over student C, unless the family has donated a few million for a new library. Then there's student D who has stats way below the median of accepted students. But he's a legacy. The legacy status probably won't be enough of a tipping point to get him in when the choice is between him and student A, B, or C. (Unless, as I said, the family has made sizeable and consistent donations).</p>
<p>In short, legacy status won't overcome stats that put you in or below the low range of accepted students, it may only give you a boost if it is between two equally qualified candidates, one a legacy, one not.</p>
<p>My advice is to look at each child as an individual. What makes a school a good fit for one, may not make it one for another. There are plenty of great schools out there for kids with all sorts of stats: find the best ones for each child.</p>
<p>It means you get a nicer hand tailored rejection note where they say they will help you choose another school and to call if you have any questions or need advice. That was our experience but if it was between 2 similar candidates I believe they would go with the sibling!</p>
<p>My understanding is that a sibling connection is a plus factor, but only in choosing among similarly qualified candidates. The reason it is a plus is that colleges are concerned about yield, and having a sibling at the school is a strong indication that the student is likely to attend. After all, the younger sibling probably has a high degree of familiarity with the campus, and there will be family pressures to go to the same school as well. But your kid really needs to be in the running for it to matter.</p>
<p>Actually, in most schools, legacy is a bit more than a "tip" factor. It is a specific tag factor which means that they are often examined as a group rather than in the terms of the general admissions pool. For schools that have an overwhelming number of kids in the legacy pool that are highly qualified, there has even been some debate as to whether being in that pool is so helpful since it is strongly suspected that there are caps on that pool since the schools really do not want too much of their population to be legacies.</p>
<p>Siblings are a whole different situation at most colleges. Some are serious enough about it that they will check out the siblings stats, and not turn down a kid with stats within that range. I believe "The Gatekeepers" addresses a situation like this with Wesleyan College. SOme other schools also give siblings extra consideration, but not as an official policy. It is just a consideration. The most selective schools and state schools do not care, as a rule.</p>
<p>Legacy is handled differently at different colleges. Legacy might mean mother or father, or grandmother or grandfather, or sibling. Legacy can also depend on the level of support that the alumni has given. A family connection who hasn't even kept up their mailing address may be worthless while a family connection who has donated their time and money to the school each year may mean a lot. At least in "Admissions Confidential" by Rachel Toors, siblings are given alot of weight. Toors wrote a kind of memoir about her experiences as an admissions officer at Duke for three years. (A lot of people on CC don't like her book, but I think that might be because it is a bit cynical about the process.)</p>
<p>If we assume a sibling who is well-qualified on their own merits, it seems intuitive to me (which of course means nothing -- there are so many things in the college admissions process which seem intuitive, but prove to be anything but) that the sibling-applicant might get some sort of asterisk. So many schools are concerned or even obsessed with yield. The sibling factor definitely gives them greater comfort. Then there is the alumni and family donation issue. I recall hearing about a study that families with more than one child who attended a school are many, many more times likely to be significant donors to the school. That makes sense. It becomes the "family" school. Otherwise, there are split allegiances and, often, the thought of not donating to either because we don't want to donate to just one. There is a human element to all of this rejection, of course. If kid #1 loves a school and kid #2 (again, assuming a very well-qualified kid #2) is rejected, it's pretty basic human nature that many families may turn from having all warm and fuzzies about the place to having a bit of a chip on their shoulder. Obviously, the Ivies and the big-time "power" schools could care less, but I think that many other schools do care about such things. And while not statistically significant, my theory jives with the results of a good 10-12 sets of siblings in my extended family and network of friends (at least to the extent that qualified kid #2's were NEVER denied).</p>
<p>Two female students from Sr. Class applied to same Ivy this yr, Early round. Their academic records are remarkably similar, practically identical. E.c's were not identical but in the same category; the 2 students were comparably accomplished in e.c.'s.</p>
<p>One student has a sibling currently at that Ivy, plus a legacy.
Other student has neither: that student was accepted Early several months ago.
Sibling/legacy student was deferred, then waitlisted.
(Neither student URM or athlete)</p>
<p>I don't know what to make of this, other than to be relieved that D#2 does not seek D#1's college, so that she would not "assume" an advantage, even subconsciously. (I think W/L'ed student above was surprised at the results; we were, too!)</p>
<p>Epiphany,</p>
<p>Obviously this was one sampling so who knows what factors went into it -- there could obviously be any number of subtle differences between these students that were important for the Ivy in question. And then it's clearly complicated by the whole "Ivy-factor." In my own thoughts about the very slight "bump" that I think an otherwise qualified sibling might have, I specifically excluded the Ivies (perhaps more accurately HYPMSC, but not the other Ivies) -- I think these schools delight in setting all of the rules and truly feel they never have to explain -- after all, they are HYPMSC, nobody can assume admission.</p>
<p>I don't truly think you can "assume" or reasonably rely on an advantage (for an otherwise very qualified applicant), just that I think that bump might often be present. And a sampling of 10-12 families has been consistent (no HYPSMC, but Penn, Cornell, Dartmouth, NU, Wash-U, and Carleton).</p>
<p>Speaking for myself, if this should happen in my family, and kid #2 (very qualified on her own merits) is denied, the school in question will absolutely lose my good will. I'm sure the school will get over it, but I wouldn't think of being a future donor under these circumstances. Selfish, perhaps ... but we've already paid a lot for tuition ... any extras coming from us would absolutely relate to "warm and fuzzies" we felt coming from them. Just da fact, Jack.</p>
<p>I don't think that you can try to figure out why one person was accepted and another almost identical person was denied. All of the college guides say that being accepted to HYPSM is a lottery after a certain point. For every person accepted, there are four or five statistically identical applicants who are denied. If a HYPSM school threw out everyone that they accepted and everyone that they put on the wait list, and then picked a new freshman class from the people who are left; then the resulting class would be statistically identical to the original result.</p>
<p>Some schools put as many people on the wait list as they accept. This has become the new meaning of the wait list. To be waitlisted means that you are as qualified as anyone that we accepted, but we don't have room for you.</p>
<p>One of my husband's coworkers had a son at Brown, and then a daughter who was turned down with higher stats and a more impressive resume which was a real shocker for them. She ended up accepted at a number of other selective schools, including Tufts where she went, so her app seemed to be acceptable at that level. But you would think if sibling preference were there, she would have gotten into Brown. I don't think the most selective schools give favortism for the sibling relationship, but there are some schools that do.</p>
<p>DudeD,
Yes, I know that they (Ivies) should be viewed as a separate category. I did find it instructive, however, that current sibling at that Ivy in question was not nearly the student that later applicant from same family was; first applicant (with legacy) got W/L'ed, but eventually made it in with persistence of family. That was only a few yrs. ago, & I think the competitive picture overall, for most colleges, has changed even since then, due to numbers + even greater qualifications/standards. I don't know that upper-Ivies do or do not "care" about sibling status relative to admissions, but even if they once or recently did care, I can see why there may be no sibling advantage currently.</p>
<p>I don't think one can dismiss the subconscious factor when it comes to "assumptions" of advantages. No matter how vigorous the intellectual understanding is, there's a hope there that relates directly to eventual disappointment. That's why I put it in quotation marks; it doesn't mean "know."</p>
<p>I guess I can see your point about parental resentment if a sibling is not admitted, but I can also understand a college not considering sibling status as a tip , unless the family has already been a regular & generous donor during current student's enrollment. (Looking at it strictly from the college's self-interest.) I think the picture is really changing with regard to tip factors like silbing status. I do believe your examples (regarding various colleges' track records), but it also seems to me that many colleges are realigning their priorities in favor of maximum diversity with a small "d.," again because of numbers. Tip factors like geography have been outweighing sibling as a tip for certain colleges which have seen esp. huge increases in applications.</p>
<p>You make some good points, though.</p>
<p>Mel - i'm wondering about just the opposite... my S was accepted but decided not to attend his younger sister's dream school which just happens to be the school their father attended.... do you think that will hurt her chances?</p>
<p>klc
No school would track the fact that someone in the family rejected the college before your D applied. If an application makes it to committee, they go thru the applications sorted by state and high school. They see all of the applicants who are applying from the same high school at the same time, and make decisions between them. However, they would have no way of knowing that your D's older brother applied in a previous year. Your D will just enjoy the same legacy status that her older brother did.</p>
<p>No. Doubt they even track that info. They do not ask if any siblings have ever applied to the college, They do ask where siblings are attending college, where parents went to college, whether the student applying has ever applied to that college.</p>
<p>yes, jamimom, that's what i thought... as w/ all kids & life itself, you must learn to prepare yourself as best you can and hopefully, put yourself in the running... after that who knows! i just have to believe things will work out for the best! (i need a winking smiley face here ; my summer cc project will be to learn the ropes of posting here!)</p>
<p>epiphany, I attended a workshop earlier this week given by an ad com, and he said that legacy is not much of a factor any more for the very most selective colleges (like the Ivies) because those schools have so many legacies - plus are so much in demand.</p>
<p>In other word, Harvard really isn't worried about whether some parent goes off in a snit and will never donate money again because junior was rejected... they have plenty of other applicants, a huge endowment, and plenty of other donors. </p>
<p>At a smaller, somewhat less selective college, the sibling/legacy factor might be more significant. </p>
<p>Also, as to the situation you mentioned, do you know whether the family qualified for need-based financial aid? If the advantage of accepting a legacy or sibling is to keep $$ flowing in, then that advantage would evaporate if the college needed to heavily subsidize each family member.</p>