Easier to get high marks in math/science vs. rigorous humanities?

Student Lounge College Life
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<p>Maybe it's just me, as I'm in Philosophy at U of Toronto (regarded as one of the top philosophy departments in the world), but it seems to me that, contrary to the prevalent stereotype that all Liberal Arts majors are "easier" than STEM ones, this does not really ring true from my experience.</p>

<p>In high school, I took all the math and science courses, and now in university, I've taken Calculus and Physics as electives. In both cases, my marks in these science courses have been WAY higher than my marks in my philosophy courses (I'm talking almost solely about Philosophy here, as I've taken other liberal arts courses like Psychology, Economics, Gender Studies, etc... and they <em>were</em> indeed easy-A bird courses). In high school, my science/math marks were in the mid-90's range, while my English/Sociology marks were in the mid to low 80's (which btw were still the top marks in the class).</p>

<p>It's not a case of me being more of a "math/science person" than a "liberal arts person" either -- I've always been told by my English/social science teachers throughout high school and university that I'm a very good writer, good with creative writing, research, persuasive argumentation, etc... Rather, I think this all comes down to objective VS. subjective grading practices.</p>

<p>I believe it is actually easier to attain A's in math/science courses than it is in "abstract" liberal arts subjects like Philosophy, precisely because answers in the former are often either right or wrong -- there's no argument. On the other hand, the way philosophy essays are marked is very much subjective, and depends a lot on the personal standards and style of the TA/professor who grades it (for instance, in one of my philosophy courses, we were assigned a very "simple" essay topic -- "What is virtue according to Aristotle?" You would think that most would get an easy A on this, as the students are intelligent, but in fact the class average for the assignment was a rather low B-).</p>

<p>Note that I am NOT saying that the <em>content</em> of the material in STEM courses is necessarily easier to grasp than the content in many liberals arts disciplines -- the consensus is that it often isn't. All I'm saying is that it may actually be easier to get high marks in STEM courses because of the objective grading standards. I feel like whatever grade I get in a math/science course is a function of how much time I put into studying and homework; I feel like I'm in control of my grade. By contrast, I could spend months on a big philosophy paper, none of my propositions would be "wrong" per se, and I'd still end up with a B-. It feels like your grade is balanced precariously on a thin thread.</p>

<p>It's easier to get A's in the STEM fields as long as you work hard, but it's also easier to get F's if you slack off even a little bit. In contrast, in many liberal arts disciplines it may be easier to slide by with C's or B's without as much work, but it is very difficult to consistently get A's, even with a lot of effort put in. (I suspect the deviation of grades is much smaller in liberal arts than the sciences.)</p>

<p>So...what do you folks think? Based on your observations and experiences in college and/or university, would you agree with me?</p>

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<p>You go to a school with a top Philosophy department, of course it will be difficult.</p>

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<p>From what I have seen, I think most people tend to gravitate towards either STEM or liberal arts, and then you get a few rare people who are equally good at both. So different classes/areas of study are easier for different people.</p>

<p>I think it can be harder to consistently get A’s in liberal arts courses though because you often have to come up with your own interpretation of something, which can require a bit of creativity. I’m sure STEM stuff requires creativity too, but I think the classes depend more on just understanding how different things work, instead of having to form an original argument about them.</p>

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<p>I would say that’s true.</p>

<p>It’s subjective. You know what a 100/100 math test is. But what on earth is a 100/100 undergraduate essay?</p>

<p>At my home uni, the grading is completely different in the humanities.
In maths and sciences everyone scores in 80s and 90s, and below 90 is a “fail”. (Figuratively)</p>

<p>In the Lit department, 60 is good, 70 is fantastic and 80 is publishable (literally).
A genius author would be lucky to get above 90.</p>

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<p>I would probably have to say the reason for why you think this is because the math/science classes you’ve taken had very easy tests. For my current physics class at my particular school, the average test grade is a 30%, and this is a class for STEM majors. So it really depends on your professor and you’ve obviously been lucky to have gotten easy math/science professors all this time.</p>

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<p>Well, theres a reason why Engineering/Medical/Tech. Majors are extreme “weeders”. They are also the best paying right out of college.</p>

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<p>I think it can be true.</p>

<p>Some people hate things like English and History but really enjoy subjects like Math and Science. Therefore, science+math will be much easier for them than the English and History will be.</p>

<p>Not only do people have different strengths and weaknesses, but they also have different interests.</p>

<p>If you’re interested in one class but loathe the other, then the one that you’re interested in probably won’t seem as difficult. Same thing works for if you’re good at one subject, but bad at another. Depends on the person. It’s all relative.</p>

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<p>It also depends on the professor. I’ve known a few at my current and previous colleges in departments like Communications and Art History who were notoriously harsh graders (some to the point of being unreasonable). Others definitely fit the easy, “bird course” stereotype. When I took Intro to Psych, about half of the total course points were from in-class, busywork assignments that were next to impossible to get anything under full credit for. </p>

<p>The biggest thing is that humanities courses and majors vary a lot in how rigorous and challenging they are. Generally, STEM majors and courses are objective and considered difficult all-around. It does get annoying when someone in STEM automatically assumes everything someone in liberal arts does is easy because the few humanities classes they took for gen ed requirements were easy.</p>

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<p>This right here is your answer. It’s not that one is necessarily more difficult, but that they have different curves: in STEM class, your grade pretty much directly correlates with the hours you put in studying. In humanities, it only takes minimal effort to go from an F to a C, but you only get an A if you do your work well AND the professor likes it. This is related to a negative grading system: you start at 100, and the professor counts off whenever he notices errors. In STEM, it is well defined what a perfect answer looks like, and sufficient work will get you to that point. In humanities, there is no such thing as perfect work, and thus there is a chance that good work will be penalized for small mistakes that wouldn’t even be noticed in poorer work, and end up with the same grade. Some cynical people have suggested that it is smart to deliberate include some obvious but minor error for the professor to notice, so the professor will have something easy to count off and won’t scrutinize the rest as closely.</p>

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<p>I would agree. As a math major, my lowest mark was in a Shakespeare course that was graded extremely subjectively (though I probably deserved the grade), and yet I consistently do well in the humanities! However, I think that attending a school known for its philosophy department is the clear reason you’re having a tough time.</p>

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<p>I believe it seems answers to math questions usually are only one answer and “humanity courses” questions possibly have many.</p>

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<p>STEM classes are only harder if you don’t have the right strategy and approach. I find that a lot of people in math and science courses who struggle despite their best efforts just aren’t doing it right. I’ve only had minimal experience (2 semesters of dual enrollment chemistry in high school), but I found that those that do worst waste their time by reading the textbook and just looking over problems that have already been solved, while that does very little to help with problem solving, and use hints on the online homework system as a crutch, believing they know the material as long as they’re getting an A on the homework portion, only to get hit hard at test times. Others sleep in lecture and again rely on the homework hints. In general, however, once I figure out a strategy for learning the material, I find science and math easier than humanities. For example, I find it better to do out online homework on paper and avoid using hints as much as possible. Something that seemed obvious to me, but not many of my classmates. The OP definitely has a point in saying that objectivity makes math/science classes easier in some respects, however, it’s not always obvious how to approach them. </p>

<p>I just finished senior year in high school (I’m really not qualified to have a say when it comes to most things in academics lol), and I’ve always found, even some AP humanities classes to be really easy. However, I find that in high school, humanities classes aren’t very subjective. You can usually figure out what the teacher loves seeing and what he/she would give an A to, so I don’t know to what extent that may be true in college. I would assume though, professors definitely have preferences, so it may be often possible to work through the subjectivity.</p>

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<p>Isn’t philosophy different from most other subjects in that it requires use of both humanistic type of thinking (the way other humanities subjects like literature do) and logical thinking (the way math and science subjects do)?</p>

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<p>^I agree with you, but not all schools have good philosophy departments…therefore the philosophy classes at those schools might be BS. Same for psychology, I think…most people consider it to be really easy, but at schools with really good psych departments, it’s a much more challenging major.</p>

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<p>In my own experience, it was certainly much easier to get consistently high grades in math + science classes than in the humanities. Statistics seem to agree with me too: usually 30%-40% of the students graduating with highest honors (3.9+ GPA) are math majors, even though math majors account for less than 10% of the student body.</p>

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<p>Even if you’re good at math, math courses in college will be disproportionately harder than humanities. I went to a challenging high school, but I found college rigorous humanities were more work than AP classes in high school, but not that much more challenging otherwise. </p>

<p>I’m a Math and Computer Science major and it was much harder for me to do well in courses like Vector Calculus, Discrete Math, Real Analysis, Matrices, Complex Analysis, Probability Theory, and Ordinary and Partial Differential Equations than say, Comparative Politics, Human Psychology, Genocide, Philosophy, Technical Writing, English, etc. Many of these (humanities) classes involved 40+ page papers or literature reviews but I never got lower than an A- in any of them. It could be that I’m a skilled writer, but I’ve always considered myself better at math. I did better in math at high school, got 800s on the Math related SATs. </p>

<p>As for the science courses, it’s a little harder for me to say. I have a 4.00 computer science average but the typical averages are dismal. Then again, I knew a lot before going into college. Physics courses are generally considered very difficult, as are chemistry courses. Biology is generally considered easier. I’ve only done physics so far though.</p>

<p>If you look at average GPAs by major, math is usually close to the lowest. Hard sciences aren’t much higher. Some humanities majors (especially philosophy) are tougher than others though.</p>

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<p>^ that’s not really being fair, because you are comparing the intro-level humanities courses you took with upper level math and cs courses. The fair comparison would be to compare Human Psychology with Intro to Java or Computing for Business Majors or whatever the typical non-cs person would take at your school.</p>

<p>I suppose we could bring in actual facts: [5</a> Hardest and Easiest College Majors by GPA’s - CBS News](<a href=“http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-37241878/5-hardest-and-easiest-college-majors-by-gpas/]5”>http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-37241878/5-hardest-and-easiest-college-majors-by-gpas/)</p>

<p>According to this, the hardest are Chemistry, Math, Economics, Psychology, and Biology. On those, Economics and Psychology a bit borderline as to whether they can be considered humanities or sciences. Unsurprisingly, the easiest were Education, Language, English, Music, and Religion.</p>

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<p><">“I would probably have to say the reason for why you think this is because the math/science classes you’ve taken had very easy tests. For my current physics class at my particular school, the average test grade is a 30%, and this is a class for STEM majors. So it really depends on your professor and you’ve obviously been lucky to have gotten easy math/science professors all this time.”<"></p>

<p>Yes, but remember that even if all the students in your Physics class score very dismally on tests and assignments, their grades are bell-curved when the final grades are being calculated. Hence, a class average of, for e.g. 30%, will be boosted to an average of 60-75%, along, with the ensuing proportional changes in everybody’s final mark.</p>