<p>Reading the thread on safety schools, I was wondering: audition programs can't be considered "safety", but which ones are easiest to get in? I mean, x number apply, and y number get accepted. And I realize that the easiest to get in may not mean "worse program." There may be other factors, like the program is very expensive or in a remote location. For example, someone told me that Boston Conservatory accepts 20% of their applicants (around 150) to get the class size of 60 that they want, because so many turn them down due to cost, and they don't give much financial aid - but that it is still a really good program if you can afford it. 20% is a huge acceptance number for MT! Likewise NYU which accepts many in their acting studios. Are these numbers out there? Seems they would be really helpful, especially if a student doesn't have financial concerns.</p>
<p>A great question, and you’ve put it just right, too. Selectivity doesn’t correlate to excellence, especially not when all programs are so selective. I don’t know how you’d find the numbers-- schools tend to be pretty cagey, saying “We have 400 applicants for a class of 10,” skipping over the fact that they probably accept 40 of those applicants to yield a class of 10. And there’s a human tendency to exaggerate as the numbers are passed along. </p>
<p>I was interested to see Plymouth State mentioned here as a hidden gem. I know some talented folks who’ve graduated from Plymouth State, including some who’ve transferred from more popular programs, but it’s in the New Hampshire hills, which is waaay off-Broadway. And it only holds auditions on campus so doesn’t face the huge number of auditioners that Unified schools do. Yes it’s an auditioned school and even if it takes 50% of applicants, it’s still no safety. But it’s a more hopeful option than some! I wonder what others are in this category.</p>
<p>Everything is a crapshoot and nothing is easy. True, those schools accept more but there are a huge number of kids for each of those spots. Less known schools are probably easier in that respect. But EASY doesn’t exist in any way, shape, or form with MT programs. It has been proven it’s easier to get into a prestigious med school over MT. Not what you wanted to hear, sorry</p>
<p>Does it make a difference if they have no off-campus auditions? Does that limit the pool a bit?</p>
<p>Well if you are looking for percentages, we were told that Montclair had over 700 applicants last year and accepted less than 3%. They do work off a waiting list. At the point when we visited in April, they told us that they had at that point accepted 13 girls. Their goal is 10 boys and 10 girls.
And yes, I think it does make a difference if a school does not have off-campus auditions. One of the (several) reasons my daughter did not apply to University of Michigan was because we would have had to go to Michigan for the audition. Too far to go, too expensive a trip, too much time away for such little chance of getting in. I don’t know why they don’t do NY Unifieds. I guess they just don’t have to…</p>
<p>I have a theory about programs that require students to come to the campus to audition. Often they are schools with particularly nice campuses, and they know their location will be a selling point. (I’m thinking especially of Shenandoah and Florida State, but I am sure there are others.) Also, these schools know that the students who make the trip are likely to be truly interested in the schools.</p>
<p>Back to Calliene’s original question, I’d like to mention that schools go in and out of fashion and their applicant pool can vary enormously from year to year, depending on whether a hot star is an alum, or whether they were featured on a well-publicized list somewhere. Carnegie Mellon is currently very hot, and probably alums like Matt Bomer and Zachary Quinto are keeping that going. Ithaca is in a “bulge year” with freshman BFA students numbering about 50% higher than anticipated because of such factors, causing more accepted students to attend than their usual statistics would have suggested. So then possibly they’ll take fewer next year, and their applicant-to-admit ratio will get skewed temporarily. </p>
<p>With BFA classes so small, the schools know there will be fluctuation.</p>
<p>Then there are some schools with a waiting list and others without. </p>
<p>Some schools don’t publish these statistics, period.</p>
<p>Some schools make their statistics look impressive by tabulating the number of applicants without regard to whether an application is ever completed, or counting conference auditioners in their numbers, etc. (Yes, this is really true.)</p>
<p>I’ve heard people say “Oh, NYU isn’t all that selective because they take so many people.” But that is also deceptive. There is a certain amount of self-selection regarding NYU, because it is known to be very expensive but not very generous with financial aid, and also because that school is known to place more emphasis on grades and test scores than many of the auditioned programs. So kids with lousy GPAs and SATS, or who need a lot of financial aid, are less likely to apply there. It hasn’t hurt their reputation any, in any case.</p>
<p>One more variable that comes to mind – I know of a school that is working hard to upgrade its reputation by clever marketing, working directly with coaches to recruit their top students, and by positively THROWING scholarship money at the students they want the most. It’s very smart. They generate buzz, and in a few years these students will become terrific ambassadors for that school.</p>
<p>Interesting question. Building on what Prodesse says: Beware the “x numbers auditioned” claims–Some schools, in an effort to appear more selective, manipulate the numbers by claiming that <em>all</em> auditions at Unifieds were for them. So BFA U is one of the colleges at Unifieds, and 1000 people audition at Unifieds. BFA U then says 1000 people auditioned <em>for them</em>. </p>
<p>Also, never exclude applying to a program you like because the reputation is that they don’t give need based aid. A few years back, my own son got a full tuition ride, plus most of his board, from NYU Tisch. It can happen. For finances, you should have safeties and reaches just as you do for the school itself.</p>
<p>Try to find a school your student likes that is not in anyone’s top 20.</p>
<p>It’s also worth mentioning that we know of at least two kids who got into exactly ONE of the 10+ programs they auditioned for… but the one program that admitted them (they were 2 different schools) is commonly considered among the very most selective MT BFA programs in the country.</p>
<p>So the easiest program for YOU to get into might be statistically among the most selective. Which brings us back to the idea that “fit” is truly a two way street.</p>
<p>^MomCares, that point cannot be made often enough!</p>
<p>Of course fit is a piece of the puzzle, but knowing approximate percentages accepted would also be a good piece of info to have when making that school list. I’m all for ANY hard facts we can get! Do the schools make this info known anywhere?</p>
<p>Often enough they’re happy to give it to you, mtruth…you probably need to ask at each program though.</p>
<p>There have been other threads on this topic.</p>
<p>This was the last post on the sizes of the freshmen classes for 2012:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/15019025-post86.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/15019025-post86.html</a></p>
<p>But that doesn’t address the number auditioned vs. number offered vs. number who accepted question. As connections memtion, schools report the number auditioned differently. Some schools that go to regional auditions report ALL of the students who audition there because they see everyone in the group auditions. Others report only the numbers that specifically audition for them. And the numbers vary from year to year. Here’s the most recent list I found:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/12495392-post25.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/12495392-post25.html</a>
And some historical date:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/12364244-post5.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/12364244-post5.html</a>
And some perspective:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/14089223-post6.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/14089223-post6.html</a></p>
<p>The best advice we received was not to consider any audition program to be a sure bet. Our son used a well respected west coast audition coach, who felt our son had a chance to be accepted into the “top programs,” and crafted a list that included all of the usual suspects. He was accepted into 4 audition programs, 2 of which many consider in the top 5, and he was rejected from 5, some of which would be considered to be less selective than the ones he got into. Two schools that rejected him actually called him during the process to talk with him, which gave him hope of an acceptance that turned out to be a rejection. The most recognized programs, including NYU and BoCo, draw from a national pool of the most talented students, given their reputations, so while their freshman classes are larger than many, that doesn’t mean they are easier to get into. As others have highlighted, colleges play the numbers game trying to establish their selectivity. This was in the news this week, where schools count uncompleted applications in the submission statistics. Have a broad list of audition programs with a couple of non-audition programs.</p>
<p>When all was said and done, my son picked a school that nobody in their right mind would go to. He passed on schools that I would quit my job to go to. As a freshman he is thriving, having a great time, and making contacts to add to an ever expanding list of opportunity.</p>
<p>He didn’t hold back, he never looked at fall back schools, and he got accepted to many top 10 schools. (<–That’s subjective) In the end, schools we thought where a lock, didn’t hardly make an offer at all. You just never know.</p>
<p>There is a school for everybody.</p>
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<p>Just want to insert at quick reminder for newer folks that not all non-auditioned programs are easier to get into than auditioned programs. I know of at least two kids now at very top BFA programs whose first choice was a non-auditioned BA (both applied binding ED) to which they were not admitted. So if the idea above was that all non-auditioned programs are automatic safeties, proceed with caution.</p>
<p>Good point. But with the non-auditioned programs at least you can figure out whether you have any chance at all, based on your grades, scores, essays, and application. All bets are off for the auditioned ones.</p>
<p>It’s very true that you can more easily self-eliminate for academically-selective non-auditioned programs, basically the functional equivalent of a pre-screen audition. </p>
<p>Based on the statistics, though, the top non-auditioned BA programs (I’m specifically thinking Northwestern, Yale and Brown and I’m sure there are others) are every bit as much a crapshoot – even for fully qualified applicants – as the top BFAs. There is not a single student in the country who can honestly consider those programs as safeties.</p>
<p>Only because it keeps being mentioned - Yale is not a great (or even good IMHO) MT school. If you’re interested in Yale for MT research it carefully and speak to as many profs and students as you can to determine if it’s what you’re looking for. Unless it’s changed considerably in the last 5 years, it’s a definite cobble-together type of program with little MT performing possibilities.</p>
<p>The cobbled together part is probably still true, but we know two top MT performers who have gone to Yale and loved it. One was in the Whiffenpoofs so he travelled a lot but also had leads in many musicals on campus, and he’s gone on to steady professional MT work. The second is one of D’s YoungArts and MPulse friends, and as far as I know she is also loving it there, so while IMHO NU is a stronger MT option Yale is still worth considering for some kids. </p>
<p>Obviously my point in mentioning it here was just to remind folks not automatically consider non-auditioned programs easier to get into than auditioned BFAs.</p>