Easiest/Hardest Schools

College Search & Selection
21

<p>I don’t think you get it. The hardness is determined by seeing how the average GPA compares to an imaginary, more objective GPA determined by SAT scores of entrants.</p>

<p>SAT isn’t purely a measure of popularity either.</p>

22

<p>Well, I think I get what you’re trying to do; I just don’t think you’re getting there.</p>

<p>SAT measures popularity when using it to compare schools. Inasmuch as schools use SAT, they take the highest scorers of those who apply. Harvard’s number is so low (above) because so many apply, allowing the school to take the highest scorers.</p>

<p>GPA falls apart when comparing schools with vs. without grade inflation.</p>

23

<p>Well, regardless of why the SAT scores are high, a school filled with higher test scorers will have an academically stronger student body,therefore they are expected to get a higher college GPA-all things being equal.</p>

<p>I think LogicWarrior’s analysis, although obviously imperfect, is pretty interesting. It’s just that almost all the schools have positive scores, so perhaps normalizing around the average would be better?</p>

<p>I also think the analysis could be better if we adopted two (very difficult, and probably impossible) changes:</p>

<ol>
<li>Get better gpa data. Some of it is woefully outdated or just wrong.</li>
<li>Normalize around majors. Even if Yale has an average gpa of 3.5 and MIT of 3.2: if MIT engineers average a 3.1 and Yale’s average a 3.0 (with student body smartness being equal) while MIT liberal arts majors average a 3.7 with Yale liberal arts majors averaging a 3.6 (again smartness being equal) it would be incorrect to assume Yale is easier than MIT just because Yale has more people going into liberal arts.</li>
</ol>

24

<p>^ I don’t understand at all. Going to a “harder” college should require being more challenged. I would expect every school to have the exact same average GPA. An academically stronger student body should mean more competition, a faster pace, and more challenging curriculum.</p>

25

<p>^^
Well, not necessarily. I wouldn’t expect every school to have the exact same average GPA. While going to a harder college should require you to be more challenged, that challenge is usually less than the increase of strength of student body. From a pedagogical point of view, if everyone did A&B work at Harvard but not everyone at Missouri State did, does that mean Harvard should give out C’s to people who still did really good work? Of course you can differentiate between the quality of the work, but that may not provide very adequate assessments of a student’s mastery of material. For instance, the difference between B and C work (at a school like Harvard) may be analogous to the *difference * between a 2300 and 2350 on the SATs. And the difference between a B and an A is between a 2350 and a 2380. Obviously no one would say the 2300 kid was really weaker-but such a rigorous grading standard would force it as so.</p>

26

<p>^ I’m a fan of the bell curve.</p>

27

<p>

</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I skipped schools with no data prior to 2004. SAT averages are used from 2006 because that was what was on the website. I used 2006 GPAs when possible.</p></li>
<li><p>I’d really like to do this.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>

</p>

<p>You’re not counting in grade inflation. Schools like Brown are easier than the quality of the student body would indicate because of their high average GPA. Georgia Tech, meanwhile, has an okay student body, but gets a lower score because of a much lower average GPA.</p>

28

<p>

</p>

<p>Hopkins was the first research university in America. Chicago was heavily influenced by the Johns Hopkins graduated oriented model.</p>

<p>Students at Hopkins and Chicago pretty much under an intensive graduate style regiment according to my MIT friend’s dad who is an associate Professor at Harvard medical school. Honestly,we got through hell here. I HAD CONTEMPLATED SUICIDE BEFORE. I think I was clinically diagnosed with depression several times but I never sought help for it. </p>

<p>During the 1990’s, Johns Hopkins had the third highest suicide rate after Harvard and MIT.</p>

<p>BTW! **I’ve attended and taken classes at Harvard, MIT, and Johns Hopkins.
**
Calculus 1/2 at Johns Hopkins is TOUGHER than Harvard calculus by a noticeable margin. I’ve taken Calculus, Multivariable, Linear Algebra at Harvard and I know that Hopkins is intense and a lot is expected out of you. It’s ridiculous. (not to say other schools are no like that too or that it’s exclusive to Hopkins/Chicago)</p>

<p>While I got an A in Spanish American Art and Architecture at Harvard, I got a B- in a similar class on Art of the Ancient Americas at JHU. Harvard is pretty easy lol.</p>

29

<p>The real flaw in this analysis is the inherent assumption that SATs serve as a valid/good predictor of success (as measured by GPA) in college.</p>

<p>There is a copious amount of research which demonstrates how poor the SAT is as a predictor of post-secondary success.</p>

30

<p>

Yes, I am. Schools that inflate grades are not pushing their students hard enough and do not deserve a high ranking in this metric. SAT scores are irrelevant; just look at the GPA.</p>

31

<p>I had a 4.0 UW, 2200 SAT, took classes like Calc, Lin algebra, Multivariable Calc, Java, etc… at Harvard/MIT, ran my own businesss, President of NHS, etc…</p>

<p>I had a 2.1 GPA first semester at Johns Hopkins. (Academic probation is 2.0)</p>

<p>JHU is tough…</p>

32

<p>

</p>

<p>If you ranked solely by lowest to highest average GPA you’d find that East Carolina was harder than Harvard.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Since the average GPA at Hopkins is 3.24, I’m guessing your story isn’t typical.</p>

33

<p>sorry, this is kinda stupid…</p>

34

<p>why? 10char</p>

35

<p>Well of course, I had to work my fannny off to achieve a 3.5 and 3.7 for each successive semesters after the first semester freshman year debacle.</p>

<p>Literally, I spent most of my life in the library. Partly due to the lack of preparation that my high school gave me (note that I probably took the most AP classes and tons of Harvard classes back in highschool)… I can assure you, I wasn’t ready at all for Hopkins… lol. Good night.</p>

36

<p>The list in the original post was in alphabetical order. Here is LogicWarrior’s list sorted by supposed difficulty:</p>

<p>


-0.31 Princeton 
-0.16 Harvard 
-0.08 Dartmouth 
-0.08 Duke 
-0.04 WUStL 
-0.02 Columbia 
-0.01 Johns Hopkins 
+0.01 Georgia Tech 
+0.02 RPI 
+0.03 Grinnell 
+0.03 Northwestern 
+0.03 Pomona 
+0.03 Washington & Lee 
+0.05 Vanderbilt 
+0.09 Emory 
+0.09 Middlebury 
+0.10 Cornell 
+0.10 William & Mary 
+0.11 Lehigh 
+0.12 Reed 
+0.13 Carleton 
+0.13 Georgetown 
+0.13 Penn 
+0.13 Stanford 
+0.14 Virginia 
+0.14 Wake Forest 
+0.18 Brown 
+0.18 North Carolina 
+0.21 Case Western 
+0.21 Michigan 
+0.22 UC Berkeley 
+0.23 Illinois 
+0.26 Kenyon 
+0.27 Macalester 
+0.27 UCLA 
+0.31 Wheaton 
+0.31 Wisconsin 
+0.32 Auburn 
+0.32 Ohio State 
+0.34 Purdue 
+0.34 Texas A&M 
+0.34 Whitman 
+0.35 Colorado 
+0.35 NC State 
+0.36 Miami (OH) 
+0.36 Rutgers 
+0.37 Virginia Tech 
+0.38 Bucknell 
+0.38 NYU 
+0.40 Texas 
+0.40 UC Santa Barbara 
+0.41 Penn State 
+0.41 Syracuse 
+0.42 Connecticut 
+0.43 Colorado State 
+0.43 Iowa 
+0.44 Arkansas 
+0.45 Missouri 
+0.46 Houston
+0.47 Georgia 
+0.49 Florida 
+0.50 Oklahoma 
+0.51 Alabama 
+0.51 Washington 
+0.52 Kentucky 
+0.63 South Florida 
+0.65 Oregon State 
+0.66 Washington State 
+0.69 Utah 
+0.69 Wyoming 
+0.70 Idaho 
+0.70 Oregon 
+0.71 Ohio 
+0.73 Kansas 
+0.73 Utah State 
+0.75 Indiana 
+0.78 Ball State 
+0.80 East Carolina 
+0.81 Bowling Green 
+0.85 Kent State 
+0.90 Central Michigan

</p>

37

<p>Thanks, IBClass06 :)</p>

38

<p>Phead, doesn’t Hopkins have Pass/NR for first semester?</p>

39

<p>"Quote:
JHU minus the Peabody and Cornell Arts and Sciences is just as competitive and high scoring in the SATs as Duke or other schools of similar calibers. </p>

<p>Then find that data and report back."</p>

<p>Here is the prior year’s data:
<a href=“http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000003.pdf[/url]”>http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000003.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000176.pdf[/url]”>http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000176.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000177.pdf[/url]”>http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000177.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000001.pdf[/url]”>http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000001.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

40

<p>using that data, Cornell A&S is -0.02.</p>