<p>Oh - and AP Chinese is out. How many Asian kids are taking those just to get a free 5?</p>
<p>Anyhow - does it seem that the students are the ones who want an easy 5/800, or the parents? From my experience, it seems to be the parents (but I'm speaking from a very low sample size)</p>
<p>It's funny, a similar trend is happening with Spanish. I'd guess that due to the increase in Hispanic immigration, more fluent speakers are taking the AP test, and of course, easily getting 5s. As a result, college board has made it extremely hard, and they've received a lot of criticism for making it near impossible for a non-native speaker to make a 5. I feel sorry for any non-native Chinese speakers taking AP Chinese. They should revise the tests to make the demands on non-native speakers more reasonable.</p>
<p>My mom wanted me o take the SAT II Chinese, but I said no.</p>
<p>actually, in my experience, it's been the students...</p>
<p>the fluent spanish speaker in my class hid the fact she was taking spanish until it was too late, because she didn't want to work in a language class during hs</p>
<p>and my haitian friends really wanted to take french to get 100 and their parents didn't care</p>
<p>but the thing is, colleges see right through them. They forget that college adcoms aren't idiots (not most of them anyway.lol). They can easily see that an asian student took the test just to get an easy 5/800. So really, they're(the students/parents) just wasting their money, and time (you can do a lot in one hour on saturday). So usually adcoms don't even pay attention to that score (which isn't complete justified b/c there are some asian students who don't speak chinese/korean fluently). but you get my point.</p>
<p>There's a reason at the beginning of the AP language tests it asks what languages are spoken in your home, what's your native tongue, etc.</p>
<p>...but those survey questions do not affect scoring.</p>
<p>Is it the same with the French SAT II? I want to study French in college, and I want to take the French subject test, but I'm afraid that I will do badly on it because it will be too difficult.</p>
<p>no, but it gives CB information about those people who are getting the 5s and 800s and if they are "exploiting the system""</p>
<p>What the...?</p>
<p>You're blaming people for wanting a 5 on AP. Then everybody must be guilty. Who doesn't want a 5, better yet, an easy 5? </p>
<p>Plus it's really neither the parents' or the kids' fault that the test is "easy", they didn't make the tests. </p>
<p>And it's not your right to be able to say that this test is easy for all the asians because they still had to learn the language some way (reading and writing) and I'd bet it wasn't easy.</p>
<p>Most asians (well, Chinese in this case) are fluent in the language because they are forced to go to Chinese school every week for a couple hours, and that's enough sacrifice for a 5 on AP. The rest of the asians just don't know the language and probably won't take the AP. </p>
<p>So it really isn't a "free 5".</p>
<p>It's their reward for knowing their mother tongue as well as English.</p>
<p>wow prosperous, you = righteous lib. Not always a bad thing, I'm just pointing it out.</p>
<p>hmm... I got a 790. lol. is that bad? then again, I've never gone to a day of Chinese school, and I did manage a 750 on Spanish.</p>
<p>
[quote]
What the...?</p>
<p>You're blaming people for wanting a 5 on AP. Then everybody must be guilty. Who doesn't want a 5, better yet, an easy 5?</p>
<p>Plus it's really neither the parents' or the kids' fault that the test is "easy", they didn't make the tests.</p>
<p>And it's not your right to be able to say that this test is easy for all the asians because they still had to learn the language some way (reading and writing) and I'd bet it wasn't easy.</p>
<p>Most asians (well, Chinese in this case) are fluent in the language because they are forced to go to Chinese school every week for a couple hours, and that's enough sacrifice for a 5 on AP. The rest of the asians just don't know the language and probably won't take the AP.</p>
<p>So it really isn't a "free 5".
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually - it's scientifically known that people have an advantage in learning a foreign language before they hit puberty. After puberty - they must consciously pick up every word - and with great effort (and, they develop an unavoidable accent). But in a bilingual household - they don't have to consciously pick up every word - and they become fluent speakers</p>
<p>The fact is that language development is subject to critical periods. If you learn a language before that critical period, you have a huge advantage.</p>
<p>==
That being said - there's little wrong with this - although it is inherently unfair (like everything).</p>
<p>its the students. im one of those 800-ers on it; i would know. i see no reason to feel unfair about it, however. i came to america in 8th grade. that kind of info will not be seen anywhere on my college applications. i need SOME ways of compensation for that. i dont have a lot of the advantages american-raised kids do. starting afresh an academic career and social life in a brand new country isnt so easy.
and if you really think about it, a person with a chinese last name (even fools can tell those one-syllable names apart) getting a 800 on SAT II chinese is pretty much equal to nothing for colleges. from my point of view and possibly some college admission people's, knowing your own language doesnt really add to your application. plus, 800 is like 57th percentile for SAT II chinese. it doesnt matter that much at all.
i would have taken the AP as well has my vice principal not messed up the registration.
i dont think i am going to report (aka, write on the applications) SAT II chinese to colleges; my other ones would suffice. as for AP, i wanted to take it for a backup test in order to reach AP national scholar before senior year.</p>
<p>
[quote]
its the students. im one of those 800-ers on it; i would know. i see no reason to feel unfair about it, however. i came to america in 8th grade. that kind of info will not be seen anywhere on my college applications. i need SOME ways of compensation for that. i dont have a lot of the advantages american-raised kids do. starting afresh an academic career and social life in a brand new country isnt so easy.
[/quote]
that doesnt exactly make sense....what do you mean u want a compensation?
international students, myself included, are the ones that struggle the most with the language, because they dont know squat essentially..
i had to teach myself how to speak english, but if there was a greek SAT II, i wouldnt take it cuz it's a cheap shot, and it shows that as an applicant, i'd rather go for something easy than something that I actually have to work for...if u wanna look diligent, do something other than ur mother tongue...if u dont, and just wanna get a score that looks good, but that unis will see through (they're not stupid after all), then go for native tongue exams and courses....what can I say?</p>
<p>your rationale however tongchen1226 isnt working.....think of the millions of internationals that apply annually...they have probably slaved more than ever to get to that level of erudition of english..i'm not saying that u havent, but the social context is an immense help...</p>
<p>I see no problem with a fluent speaker taking a language test. Obviously, for their good score on a language test to matter at all, they've also had to learn enough English to do well on all their other work, etc. etc.</p>
<p>It's not so much unfair for a native speaker to do well on language tests as any of the other performance asymmetries inherent in life: why is it fair that some students have parents who push them to do extra work while others don't?</p>
<p>There will always be things like that that make life unfair. I'm a little torn on this one, actually, because afaik the AP tests and SAT IIs are meant to test that language as a second language. Maybe the AP should create another test for primary speakers?</p>
<p>omg my mom wants me to take the chinese SATIIs. i tell her all the time that it's not worth it and that colleges don't give a crap about it. still, she insists that i take it soon. i just don't understand. there are so many more subjects tests that actually matter.</p>
<p>debate_addict:
first of, i like your username. :)
i agree that international students suffer the most and it is really rather unfair that they get such a low admission rate (1% for ivies, i believe?).
back to the real matter. since im not an international student anymore (greencard last summer), i am rather priviledged in taking SAT II chinese, right? well, by compensation, i mean exactly this priviledge, which i gained by learning english. 4 years to get me up to 18 years of american CULTURE is no short of the "slave labor" your mentioned. i think i am rather quite unique among immigrant children. i was old enough to be called "first generation" but also have the advantage (another type) of being in the domestic pool. since i am not really one of them, i recant my generalization about the students' motives.
as for the motive behind the decision to take hte test, i dont think we can separate parents from children. all immigrant kids (raised in america) are part of their parents, whether you claim otherwise. all the "go chase your dream" is nice, of course, but rather unrealistic. its more like "go chase our dreams." most immigrant parents tell their kids "we came to this country so YOU can get a better education." in many cases, the kids gradually adopt their parents' points of view. many people like to say "forced by parents" but i disagree. parents' writing on the "tabula rasa" cant get any more normal. thus, if you really want to be technical, EVERYTHING is the parents' fault. immigrant kids' actions reflect their parents' ideals. the question is simply invalid.</p>
<p>It is extremely frustrating to study for hours and hours on end to get what will probably end up being a 3 on AP Spanish for me while native speakers sweep by with 5s. What's the point?</p>