Eating Clubs

Colleges and Universities A-Z Princeton University
1

<p>I'm sure you've have had this topic before but I'd like to get as many opinions as possible in one place.</p>

<p>How important are eating clubs to campus life?</p>

<p>Princeton is more convenient for me in just about every dimension than my second choice but I really don't like the eating clubs and the idea that all Princeton social life is concentrated on that one street. Is it really true that they play such an integral role in campus activities?</p>

<p>Also, at the preview weekend, I met a lot of people from New Jersey. In people's experiences, are there are a lot of people from New Jersey at the school? While I have nothing against Jersey (lived here for a while), I always saw Princeton as sort of a bubble, in New Jersey but not really in New Jersey. Having lots of people from Jersey there would wreck the illusion.</p>

2

<p>The current students I spoke to downplayed them considerably, and mentioned that about 60-some percent of juniors are part of them. For me (and those current students, who happen to share my interest in math/science/engineering, and like I would if I went to Princeton, live in substance-free housing) that's a sign that they're very easily avoidable, though our degrees and methods of socializing may vary considerably.</p>

<p>Edit: According to the CollegeBoard site, Princeton has about 19% in-state students. I guess understandable considering considering the state Princeton is located in, but surprising to me too!</p>

3

<p>There are quite a few kids from New Jersey here--more than 200 in my class. As far as eating clubs go, the 60% figure is probably a little low. I think it's more like 75%. One misconception that I would like to correct is that you have to drink to be in a club. This is certainly not true. Furthermore, bicker (the process selective clubs use to choose new members) is dry. The clubs play a considerable role in the campus social scene but not in a negative way.</p>

4

<p>I wouldn't worry about the New Jersey thing. First of all, New Jersey varies a lot, from Newark to Mendham, to the Pine Barrens or Bay Head. I have never heard complaints that Princeton feels too "New Jersey-ish". The high wattage of the students really overweighs the what-state-do-they-come-from aspect.</p>

<p>As for the eating clubs, there is no doubt that with 4-year resident colleges there are more options for people who don't want to join. But if you like to go to parties, you will at some point go to the Street. And you may want to join a club. At which point, maybe you and a group of friends will sign in to a non-Bicker club. That is pretty easy. Or, at which point, you may decide you want to Bicker at a selective club. </p>

<p>Having a visible, all in one place venue for parties is a good thing. No one has to "overhear" that there is a dorm party somewhere. No one has to try to figure out via Facebook who is going out in NYC that night. No fake IDs. </p>

<p>If people don't like the eating clubs, here are the usual reasons. One, you don't drink and you disapprove and being around people who drink bothers you. If you don't mind being around others who drink however, no one will force you. Or bother you. There is quite a culture now around safety, so kids look out for eachother. But, as I said, if you really hate to drink and you don't want to be with anyone who does, you won't like the clubs. </p>

<p>Now, if you don't like the clubs, do you necessarily not like Princeton? No. I didn't like the clubs. I dropped out of mine. I ate independently. Didn't bother me at all. Learned to cook. Joined a cooking co-op. But if you want to join the social mainstream and you don't like the clubs and you don't like the alternatives, i.e. 4-year residential colleges or cooking co-ops, well, then, you might not like Princeton.</p>

<p>So make yourself a logical tree. Like this. Do I need to participate in the most visible social activity at school or am I happy in the available alternatives? Yes/No. If Yes, is there an available alternative that appeals to me? Colkking co-op, residential college? Yes/No. If No, you might not like Princeton. Next branch. Am I OK to be with people who are drinking? Yes/No. If No, then maybe you won't like Princeton. But that leaves the large majority at Yes. If Yes, then are you OK to join a sign-iin club or are you going to be itching to Bicker. Yes/No. If you will be itching to Bicker, can you live with the possibility of getting "hosed". Be aware that there is no shame in being "hosed". Kids get interviewed in the newspaper about it and joke with their friends. They usually re-Bicker or else join a sign-in.</p>

<p>My daughter says she doesn't know a single person who doesn't like Princeton. And she knows a lot of people. I knew someone who didn't like it, she went to London for her junior year, and just really wanted to be in a city. But she actually really liked her eating club:).</p>

<p>The clubs are rarely what make people dislike Princeton.</p>

5

<p>ptongrad2000 and i and many others have written at length on this topic, frequently in response to mischaracterizations of the clubs and club system by partisans of other institutions, but often in response to legitimate concerns raised by applicants and admits. rather than repeat my spiel, i will re-post one of the best posts on the topic, from a former student who went under the handle "laughthink" (who typed this post in response to certain mischaracterizations, thus all of the harvard-yale comparisons):</p>

<p>I’ve read posts on CC accusing Princeton eating clubs of being elitist and divisive. But I’ve also noticed an interesting aspect of the criticism –- it all comes from people who don’t attend Princeton. The barbs seem to especially emanate from current Yale and Harvard students. Why they feel such a need to spread their negative view on eating clubs is curious. As one who did in fact go to Princeton and belonged to an eating club, I’d like to offer a more personal perspective. </p>

<p>Like many CC viewers, I was fortunate enough to be admitted to Princeton, Harvard and Yale. I selected Princeton for academic reasons. It’s not that I didn’t consider a college’s social life to be important –- I very much believe it’s vital. I just figured that anywhere there were bright, interesting students, I would find my niche. And I still think that’s true. But in high school, I didn’t know an eating club from a secret society from a finals club from a hole in the ground. I congratulate those CC posters who have such fully developed opinions on eating clubs. They are much more knowledgeable and sophisticated consumers than I ever was back then. </p>

<p>I absolutely loved my eating club experience and so did the vast majority of people I knew at Princeton. Why? Well, why do P, H and Y have residential colleges to subdivide their student bodies? To create smaller, more intimate communities in which students can feel more at home. I think residential colleges are a great idea. Eating clubs are a logical extension of the same concept. </p>

<p>Residential colleges at P, H and Y generally have 400-500 students. Eating clubs have less than half that number of members, usually about 100-150. They’re even closer, warmer social infrastructures. The most descriptive word I can think of to convey my eating club experience is “comfortable.” I was very good friends with almost every single member of my club. (Yes, there were a couple of jerks, but you take the bad with the good.) It’s quite literally true that it’s almost impossible to be in an eating club and not have at least a hundred very close friends. </p>

<p>Even a residential college of 400-500 students is large enough that you can’t know everybody well. It’s about the size of a typical high school class with many of the same social phenomena taking place. In particular, it further subdivides into the usual cliques. We’ve all been to high school. You know what I’m talking about. But once the number of people in a group gets down below 150, a different social dynamic takes over. At that size, you really DO know everybody well. You see them and eat with them every day. If your high school cafeteria is like mine, after you buy your lunch, you head to the same table every day and eat with the same 10-15 close friends. Well, in an eating club, that “same table” is the whole dining room. There’s no need to synchronize going to meals with your friends because some will always be there. You know EVERYBODY. It’s a fantastic social environment. </p>

<p>Obviously, Princeton’s clubs are self-selected in a way that residential colleges aren’t. But the criticism that they therefore are divisive does not logically follow. By the time you join a club at the end of your sophomore year, you’ve already been in a residential college of roughly 450 randomly assigned people for two years. You’ve had a broad experience and made a variety of friends. Those friends don’t go away. You eat at their clubs and they eat at yours using meal transfers -- very simple. You spend time at all the clubs, especially on party nights. Junior year, my girlfriend was not in my club. Senior year, she was (different girlfriend, that is). No big deal. Of my eight roommates junior and senior year, only one was in my club. I loved the fact that I had a circle of friends from my dorm, a different group from my eating club, a third network from my academic department, and two further circles from my two major extracurricular activities. These various groups of friends overlapped, but were separate and distinct in a very healthy way. </p>

<p>I concede that eating clubs are probably most appropriate for people who by their personality are “joiners” and that not everybody is one. That’s why 25% of Princeton upperclassmen choose another option, whether it be staying in their underclass residential college for another two years, joining one of two student-run co-ops, or cooking for themselves. Some people just eat at the Frist Campus Center. No problem. Different strokes for different folks. But I submit that most Ivy League students by nature ARE joiners. And those people who want to be more “independent” have a wider range of options at Princeton than they do at almost any other school. If you’re a “joiner,” you win. If you’re not, you still win. </p>

<p>Hey, eating clubs aren’t for everybody. But I think that the vast majority of the kind of high-achieving, sociable people who are drawn to the Ivy League would LOVE them. My point isn’t that everyone should attend Princeton or join a club. But if you’re thinking about Princeton for academic reasons (and, yes, I think I chose correctly), then don’t be dissuaded by any CC eating club nay-sayers. </p>

<p>Think about it. Princeton and Harvard have the highest retention and graduation rates in the country. Princeton has by far the highest alumni donation rates. The totally unscientific and anecdotal Princeton Review lists Princeton in its “happiest students” category. If you’ve ever attended a Princeton reunion, you know that alumni are wacky in love with the institution. If Princeton students and graduates are THAT fond of the place, how could eating clubs be anything but a great experience for the vast majority of people who go through there? </p>

<p>But don’t take my word for it. Visit the campus, talk to the students and form your own opinion. Just don’t take as gospel the word of anybody who criticizes the eating clubs from the distant vantage point of New Haven or Cambridge, okay?</p>

6

<p>...and laughthink's follow-up post, responding to comments and questions:</p>

<p>Wow, thanks to everybody who replied and thanks especially for the kind words. I think your responses speak to the fact that, in contrast to many other schools, there are virtually no Princeton students or alumni who post here on CC about their experiences. I’d like to think that this means Princeton students are busy studying and/or enjoying themselves. I hope it’s a healthy (and mature) sign that so few Princetonians spend their time telling others how nice they have it. I’ll post more later and try to answer as many questions as I can. </p>

<p>First, some facts. “Foreigngrad,” you have your facts straight. There are 11 clubs of which 5 are selective, 5 are not, and one seems to go back and forth. Collectively, there is comfortably more club “capacity” than there is student body to fill it. All of the clubs except one accept more students than not. (The one exception is the smallest selective club, which usually takes about 40% of students who try.) If you want to join a non-selective club, you WILL get into one. Students can sign up for the non-selective clubs in groups up to six. A computer picks the new members and, chances are, you’ll get into your first choice club with up to five of your friends. Even two groups of six trying together have pretty good odds of both making it into their top pick. </p>

<p>“Philntex,” you summarize the Princeton social landscape very well. Residential colleges are a terrific idea and, at Princeton, you get two years of that experience. After that, if you like that concept of a smaller social infrastructure within a larger university, the eating clubs are the ultimate “personal comfort zone,” as “Foreigngrad” aptly puts it. If you want something less intimate, you can choose from a variety of options, whether structured (another two years of residential college), unstructured (cook for yourself or eat at the Frist Campus Center) or something in-between (joining a student-run co-op, where you plan your meals and cook together). </p>

<p>“Inhaven,” you ask a great question. In contrast to the stereotype, I think eating clubs are actually MORE inclusive than residential colleges. Don’t get me wrong. I love the idea of residential colleges, both at Princeton as well as Harvard and Yale. But at 400-500 students each, compare them in size to your high school class. They’re still big enough that you can’t know everybody well. As a result, there’s still the phenomenon where the African-American students are more likely to sit at one table, the Latino students at another, etc. Similarly, the athletes and artsy types also hang out together. Name any standard high school clique and it probably applies to some extent. When you don’t know everybody, you tend to self-select toward those you know best. That’s simple human nature and true on every campus in America. </p>

<p>But the eating clubs, at 100-150 members each, are small enough that you DO know everybody in your club. You see them every day. That familiarity makes all the difference in the social dynamic. The clubs are a true social m</p>