The tire deflators ain’t getting no prizes… they should be happy not to get any rock salt in their butts. 
2 Likes
EV’s pollute, too, in case we forgot. Even if the energy comes from renewable. How many solar panels does it take to power an EV? How much pollution to produce the solar panel and run? I see miles and miles of solar panels when I drive cross country. I have to wonder what that does to the environment. If someone drives an EV 10 times more than an SUV, is an EV still less polluting? People can get so near sighted. Only see what’s on the nose and think that’s the whole story.
3 Likes
EVs don’t produce pollution. The production of EVs has some pollution involved just the same as internal combustion engine vehicles, BUT ICE vehicles continue to pollute for their lifetimes. Every single time you drive that ICE SUV somewhere you are actively polluting. With EVs that is not the case. And EVs can go completely off grid. It’s really not accurate to equate them at all.
3 Likes
I love this when I see it in our travels.
EV production does no more pollution than ICE production, and probably less TBH.
Fewer cars in favor of walking, biking, or mass transit would pollute less if you want to make that argument.
2 Likes
You are proving my point. The power that charges an EV comes from a polluting source most of the time. People can’t see beyond their nose. The car doesn’t pollute but there’s pollution to produce the energy to power it. Are these who are deflating my tire? The ones who think pollution from an ev is zero? Sorry to break it to you. In an ev the source of pollution is shifted to a remote location. It is better but not zero.
2 Likes
So you are claiming there’s no pollution involved in producing oil or refining it for use in ICE vehicles as gasoline or motor oil so they can move? No pollution involved in transporting the crude or refined until it reaches the gas tank?
How does that happen?
1 Like
You are misreading my post. The main difference between an EV and gas powered car is the pollution occurs on the spot for gas cars and immediately visible while for an EV, it happens at the power plant. You don’t see the pollution doesn’t mean it is zero for an EV. If you drive your EV a lot, you may be polluting just as much as any less driven gas car.
1 Like
The pollution emitted from an EV is zero. That’s why they are “zero emission”. Your stove probably emits more pollution than an EV.
Yes, just like ICE vehicles the production of an EV and the parts that go into it, including the same plastics and metals that are in ICE vehicles, does emit pollution. But when you are driving around in an EV the car itself is not emitting pollution unlike a ICE vehicle that has dirty polluting inputs and outputs. That’s what I said in my earlier comment. Sorry if it wasn’t clear.
EV production = pollution
ICE production = pollution
EV fuel = could be pollution or not, depends on source (nuclear, coal, solar)
ICE fuel = pollution
EV use = no pollution
ICE use = pollution
So I’ll take the one with less pollution please. I promise I will not deflate anyone’s tires who chooses a different vehicle, though.
5 Likes
You don’t quite have it right here. You are equating the production of the fuel (electricity) for an EV with the act of driving an ICE vehicle. You need to compare the production of the fuel for both so that would be oil drilling and refining for an ICE vehicle vs electricity production for an EV.
I’m not misreading anything. You just seem to be implying that the EV has pollution creating the electricity for it to run on (depends upon the source) and the ICE vehicle doesn’t at that point. That’s not true at all. A lot of electricity goes into refining oil - the same electricity that could go straight to the EV. Then there is the energy needed to get that refined oil/gas to the stations, etc.
Producing either car creates pollution and waste.
1 Like
Oil and gas production combined produce far more pollution than even the dirtiest electricity production method, coal. You can dive into the data here: CO2 emissions by fuel - Our World in Data
Oil and gas production is inherently a dirty business – oil spill anyone?
Electricity can come from many different sources. There’s coal, nuclear, solar, wind, hydro, as well as oil and natural gas. The nearest power plant to me is a nuclear power plant. I don’t love that either, but that is what it is. Would love to go all solar, but I’d have to cut down a bunch of trees to make that work.
1 Like
This EPA link has some good food for thought. Specifically, the first plot (which has many underlying assumptions), shows:
- EV production emits much more GHG than ICE production.
- Fuel production for EV’s emits a moderate amount more GHG than for ICE.
- Including run time, where ICE emits a lot more GHG than EV, the lifetime emissions are roughly 150 GHG grams/mile for EV, and 375 GHG grams/mile for ICE.
There is also a calculator to estimate emissions based on where you live, and how power is generated in that location.
3 Likes
In other words, if you drive an EV 2 1/2 times more than someone with ICE, you are just as bad. Only 2 1/2 times! From their righteousness, I assumed you get to drive at least 10 times more before reaching the same level of pollution. Has EPA included the pollution from disposing used batteries in their calculation?
1 Like
The battery components are recycled.
1 Like
No one does. With current technology, it is too expensive to recycle bfrom raw material.attery components. They’d rather make new
Thanks for the link. Saved me looking up one I once found (which had old data). Yes, the EV advantage definitely depends on the local methods used to generate power for the grid.
Here’s an overview map, with newer data (and I think better EV comparison due to decrease in coal power).
https://www.google.com/search?q=ev+effectiveness+by+location+state&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS973US973&hl=en-US&sxsrf=APwXEdd1mPDF4YPfX6ZTPMsjw8Z3vebhHQ%3A1682625563117&ei=G9RKZIPfBo_C0PEP4IGr2Aw&oq=ev+effectiveness+by+location+state&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAMyBQghEKABMgUIIRCgAToKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzoHCCMQsAIQJzoHCCEQoAEQCjoECCMQJzoFCCEQqwI6CAghEBYQHhAdSgQIQRgAUJQLWLkcYM8faAFwAHgAgAFyiAHYBZIBAzUuM5gBAKABAcgBCMABAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#imgrc=WmLraHziKqHmSM&lnspr=W10=
2 Likes
2 Likes
I’m puzzled. Why would I drive more in an EV than I do in my ICE vehicle? Are you assuming people will go out for joy rides or need to run more errands or what? I can’t think of any reason I’d want to drive more than I do now, not to mention over twice as much.
3 Likes
I interpreted their comment to be applied to a comparison of two different drivers. Although aggregate statistics would suggest SUV owners drive as much or more than EV owners, this can’t be assumed to be the case in Boston’s Beacon Hill neighborhood where the activists were deflating tires.
According to NeighborhoodScout, 68% of Beacon Hill residents walk to work or work from home, while only 16% drive a private vehicle to work. 82% work in executive / management / professional positions, which are plentiful in the vicinity. Residents are wealthy, vacation in Europe (no long-distance driving), etc.
Given one of the attractions of an EV is to save money on gas, which correlates to driving a significant number of miles, it seems like a poor assumption that the carbon footprints of the Beacon Hill residents’ SUV’s, which may not be driven much, are any greater than the carbon footprint of an average EV.
1 Like
Lots of EV drivers are very eco-conscious and choose to live in walkable locations. You are making up nice stories about the Beacon Hill SUV owners but we can make up nice stories about EV owners too.
2 Likes