Economic issue and URM

Applying to College
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<p>Unfortunately, I have to agree with suze. It will be noted that you are first generation college and that your parents did not attend college. This is not the same thing as being considered an URM. The whole URM thing is driven by politics. The different minority groups monitor how many of their own minority-type are accepted and the colleges never want to look as if they are back sliding. Colleges, especially the extremely selective colleges, want to be (and appear to be) socially aware. However, there are no politicians or special interest groups looking out for poor whites. If you make them aware of your situation, then you can perhaps generate some personal feelings on your side by the adcoms, but going to a top suburban high school isn't going to get you too much sympathy compared to some URM candidates anyway.</p>

<p>As you said, retake the ACT. Practice in advance. It is hard to make estimations, but Northwestern, Cornell and Wellesley could be reaches without a big improvement in the ACT score. The thing that adcoms care most about is difficulty of curriculum, then gpa/rank, and then standardized test scores (SAT/ACT and SAT II's). They won't split hairs between people who qualify on that basis, but they then look at what makes an applicant unique (EC's, essays, recs). It is better to show "passion" and long-term commitment to one/two interests rather than unfocused interest in many activities.</p>

<p>(Do you have any geographic diversity working for you?)</p>

<p>I don't normally recommend a school semi-randomly, but Emory is known for its financial aid. If you apply there, show interest.</p>

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<p>i live in the midwest, is that geographic diversity?</p>

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<p>Probably not. National colleges like to have students from every state. This gives a little of an edge to Montana and North Dakota, but not Illinois. Some East coast colleges are trying to become better known on the West coast, and vice versa.</p>

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<p>who said i was from illinois? i'm from minnesota</p>

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<p>Yogurt, your best strategy if you want a top school is not to look for loopholes but to get your test scores where they need to be, Have you tried the SAT?</p>

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<p>what do you mean look for loopholes?</p>

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<p>Looking for loopholes means trying to play the system to your advantage by finding certain characteristics about the system that favor you. If you want to do an essay about being poor in an affluent area, that might or might not be a good idea. What you really have to do though is improve your ACT/SAT score so that they will care about the essay. </p>

<p>I don't think you said what year you are, but you did say that you have only taken the ACT once. Try to move that score up, or look into the SAT/SAT II's. Your difficulty of curriculum and gpa look good.</p>

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<p>i am a senior this school year. I do badly on the sats, but i got a 700 and 730 on history and chemistry respectively. what kind of characteristics about the system will favor me? and i'm just a little confused. so if i don't move my act score up, the adcoms won't look at my essay?</p>

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<p>Yogurt, let's break this down. Of course adcoms will ready you essay, yours and that of everyone else applying. The competition is incredible at top colleges. Your essay will have to be out of this world extraordinary if your stats are not high. To get into top schools with below average stats, you need to present something highly unusual. If you can do that, you have a chance. But there is no doubt that your best chance is to improve the basics.</p>

<p>Is this just you or do you have parents pressuring you to go to Princeton? Your many posts confuse me. Many people have laid out the facts for you. There really isn't much mystery as you can look up averages and even read on boards like this one who did and didn't get in in years past.</p>

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<p>This isn't a case of you not getting into an excellent college. It is just that your ACT is low for the schools you mentioned. You could still apply to the schools but as a non-URM, non-legacy, non-athlete applying during Regular Decision, those schools would be reaches for you. Since you have good curriculum and good gpa, you need to try to bring up you standardized test scores. How many times have you taken the SAT?</p>

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<p>once. When you say reach, about how much of a chance do I stand percentage wise? Well I am confused because many people have said things about my acceptance, but they all differ. People at Wellesley said that Wellesley would be a great match, but other say it is a tough reach.</p>

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<p>It is impossible to give as a percentage. It is like asking what the percentage is that someone will pick you as a boyfriend/girlfriend over somebody else. They really do look at everything and consider the application as a total package. I would say that to be a strong unhooked candidate at a college during RD, you need to be near the top of the 50% SAT range. If the range is 1300-1500, then you need to be around 1450 for the school to be a match. All the other factors besides SAT's are considered, and you can always apply while considering the school to be a reach. Most people probably get into at least one school that they considered a reach. I would get some SAT practice guides and retake.</p>

<p>Different people have different opinions since it is hard to predict. Adcoms, however, would want to encourage you to apply almost no matter what.</p>

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<p>so is my condition considered unhooked?</p>

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<p>Yogurt, you don't need to be confused. Simply look up the numbers. Yes, I would say that as white/asian, not an athlete or legacy, you are not hooked. Being low income may help some places if you have suffered and can communicate that, but it is not a hook.</p>

<p>So look up the 25-75% at your target schools. Use recent numbers as some sites like Princeton Review are years off. If you are at the 50%, that's probably where you begin to have a decent chance. If you are at the 75%, you have a good chance. Above that, you are likely a shoo in at all but HYPSM. Below the 50% at a highly selective college means you have little chance.</p>

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<p>Free applications are great but there are other cost to the college application process which still cost money and may not be easily waived. You still have to pay to send SAT/ ACT scores, the CSS profile (if required by your school) stamps, envelopes etc.</p>

<p>Yogurt,</p>

<p>The short answer to your question is yes, you are basically unhooked. The biggest hook is the institutional mission. Lately many schools are looking to recruit low income students, and since Princeton introduced its listing of Colleges with a Conscience, community service has become a big thing. whatever the institutional mission is the school will still want to recruit students that the beleive are going to be successful whether it be URMs, developmental admits, legacies or low income (and over the years each one of these groups have stepped up their game regarding grades and stats).</p>

<p>But like Dufus stated, that does not mean that you cannot get into a good college (whatever you percieve that to be) you will just have to cast a wider net. I think that you should take the blinders off regarding the Ivies and Elite Lacs because they are reaches- plain and simple not only to you but to many people.</p>

<p>There are only a small number of schools that are need blind in the admissions process and even a smaller number that will meet your demonstrated need with large amounts of grant aid. (the schools can tell your income from a number of factors including the large colored sheet of paper that says fee waiver. They look at your zip code, your parents occupation what you do for a living, your EC's, if you state have an afterschool job, your recs)</p>

<p>Meeting your demonstrated need is a relative term. A school can literally offer you a PLUS loan (where parents can borrow up to the entire cost of attendance ) and will still have "met" your demonstrated need. Aid packages do vary from school to school.</p>

<p>No matter what happens the school is always going to give self help aid. The school requires a student contribution of $1680 (if your student does not save this money from summer earnings, you can get increased work study or loans to fill the gap)</p>

<p>If you are considering Cornell, remember that it is a school with a reputation for not giving a lot of grant aid to families. Their packages come with 3 loans off the bat;
<a href="http://finaid.cornell.edu/Shared/FAQ.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://finaid.cornell.edu/Shared/FAQ.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>If you are an out of state student, unless you are assured some merit money, do not look for financial aid from that school outside of loans becasue their first obligation is to provide an education to the residents of their state at a subsidized rate.</p>

<p>Perkins loan
Subsidized loans
University loans</p>

<p>You should definitely look at their FA scenarios. Even though they use the cost of attendance for the Land grant schools, if they are giving out this kind of aid ($7820 in loans for a family that has a total EFC of $2680- parent $1,000 and student $1680) and your family is possibly a little richer, imagine what your package could be.</p>

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<p>Suze, before you said that my chances at wellesley were 10%. However, I am in the 50% range in act (my act is the median) for welleseley and they accept 47% of their applicants. Also, people from wellesely said that I had a great chance. Thats why I am confused. I looked at the stats, and it appears that I am in the 50% range, but then you say that my chances go down to 10% when you just posted that if I am in the 50% range, I will have a decent chance. oh, and what websites have accurate data?</p>

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<p>Stats for the class of 08</p>

<p>I think that Suze is correct as of 185 students that applied to Wellesley submitting only the ACT, 63 or 34% were accepted. </p>

<p>These 63 students out of an admitted class of 1476 represent 4.2% of the admitted class so yes, overall your chance of admittance is considerably lower than someone submitting the sat with a comprable score of 1300 (even with an even split between math and verbal) had a higher acceptance rate.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/about/news_info/cbsenior/yr2002/pdf/ten.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/about/news_info/cbsenior/yr2002/pdf/ten.pdf&lt;/a> </p>

<p><a href="http://www.wellesley.edu/Admission/admission/statistics.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.wellesley.edu/Admission/admission/statistics.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Assuming by ZIP Code's a bad method, too. I live in Connecticut, where our incomes are way above the national average, but our cost of living is also way above. $50k a year doesn't go as far here as it would in Florida or somewhere else.</p>

<p>I'm always kinda nervous that schools are going to see "Connecticut" on my applications and assume it means I'm affluent, but I just have faith that someone on the admissions committee will know the state/my town enough to correct the others.</p>

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<p>The whole idea of the 50% SAT range is almost designed to confuse people. Being inside the 50% range does NOT mean that you have a 50% chance of being accepted. The 50% range means that 50 percent of the people who were accepted have SAT scores within that range. That is not even remotely the same thing as saying that somebody within that range has a 50% chance of being accepted.</p>

<p>If your score is at the median of the SAT range, then half the people accepted had scores lower than yours and half the people accepted had scores higher than yours. They could be accepting 10% or 90% of the applicants and this would still be true. The reason you have to be higher than the median score is that URM's, legacies, athletes, and ED applicants all have statistically lower scores than nonhooked acceptees.</p>

<p>The percent-accepted number is pretty much worthless. There are a lot of colleges where the average SAT is 1050, and the percent-accepted is only 25%. </p>

<p>In an earlier post, you said that Wellesley said that you were a "good match" for the school. In the last post, you said that Wellesley said that you had a "great chance". The former sounds like what they would say to everybody. It is almost like saying that they feel that you would enjoy it there. The latter sounds like something they would not say to anyone. Adcoms want to encourage people to apply no matter what.</p>

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<p>Call the school for this year's stats. Honestly Yogurt, I don't remember your post on Wellesley. Usually, my thinking is that a white or asian needs to be near the 75% at a school that selective for a good chance in terms of stats, and then needs to have strong ECs.</p>