<p>Hey everyone,</p>
<p>Prefrosh here, can some current econ majors or well-informed others tell me about the economics major at Tufts? I think Econ is really interesting and I did really well in IB economics but I'm worried about the math level. I did not take calculus in high school and almost failed pre-cal so yea...I know it varies by school/department so I'm just wondering how math intensive it is.</p>
<p>Thanks for your help!</p>
<p>The Econ department offers two majors, Economics and Quantitative Economics. As you can imagine, Quant Econ is significantly more math intensive. The department also cautions that if you ever want to study Econ at a graduate level, more math even than that will be required.
The basic Econ major though, which is one of our more popular majors, is definitely doable. It does have an actual math requirement: either Math 11 OR both Math 5 and 6. Math 11 is basic calculus. Math 5 is introduction to calculus and Math 6 is introduction to finite math ( financial mathematics, matrix algebra, linear inequalities and linear programming, counting arguments, and statistics and probability). All you need as preparation for 5 & 6 is high school geometry and algebra, no calc necessary. You need two math credits to graduate from Tufts, and there aren’t many easier ways of getting them than math 5 &6.</p>
<p>Beyond the actual math requirement, econ requires constant correct manipulation of graphs and a great deal of algebra. More than requiring a lot of mathematical skill, you’re just going to need to commit certain simple formulas to memory.
Statistics is a required course as well, but that’s probably the most math you’re going to get from an econ course.</p>
<p>So, if you’re looking to avoid math altogether, you won’t be able to be an econ major, but if you can stomach simple math, the basic Economics major should be very attainable.</p>
<p>Snarf, you’re awesome, thanks a lot! Yea, I’m not planning on doing grad school econ but was hoping to have it aid my IR major. </p>
<p>I’m probably going to take Math 5 and Math 11.</p>
<p>Oo, be careful there. The subject matter overlaps so much that they don’t give full credit for taking both Math 5 and Math 11. They currently award only half a credit for students who take 11 after having completed 5. Worse, this half credit does NOT count towards your mathematics distribution requirement, so you would still need another math course. </p>
<p>Probably the Econ major would be fine accepting the half-credit Math 11, but if you were looking to knock out your distribution requirement simultaneously, 5 & 6 would be the better way to go. </p>
<p>Econ & IR are a popular double major, mostly because IR requires some Econ courses. You’ll have to take at least two econ courses as an IR major, and if you choose International Economics as your IR thematic concentration, you’ll need at least four or five, possibly more.</p>
<p>Oh, good to know! I didn’t know that. So there’s no point in taking Math 5, 6 AND 11? I guess I’ll do the first 2 for sure.</p>
<p>Hmm I was looking at doing IE for an IR concentration but I decided against it and I’ll concentrate in either Int. Security or US Foreign Policy. I’ll just do econ as a second major.</p>
<p>Wow there are so many choices for IR. I really wish I chose an interesting, intellectually stimulating major.</p>
<p>Too late now :(</p>
<p>What’s your major and year, Detail? And btw, if you would’ve done IR you would’ve had to do 8 friggin semesters of a foreign language! Not good…</p>
<p>International Security, you say?</p>
<p>You’ll get to take classes with the divine Kelly Greenhill. You lucky bugger.
Be prepared to work hard. But she’s amazing.</p>
<p>Snarf or Detail - Which Econ do you suggust I take if I, as of now, want to go into Investment Banking after graduating from Tufts? Econ or Quant Econ? I took AP Calc in my Junior year and got a 5 and I am currently doing IB Higher Level Math. I also plan on doing IR and have my concentration as International Economics.</p>
<p>Definitely Quant Econ. If you can handle the math (and it seems like you shine at it), there’s no reason not to do Quant Econ, it’s generally seen as more rigorous.<br>
I’d also suggest you take a few classes through the Entrepreneurial Leadership program and STRONGLY urge you to participate in Tufts Finance Group as an extracurricular.</p>
<p>Are you an admitted student or a prospective student?</p>
<p>I’m an admitted student! Joining Tufts this Fall!</p>
<p>Yea, I am surely going to join Tufts Finance Group! I don’t know much about the Entrepreneurial Leadership Program but I will look it up. I think I will try to do as much as I can do to network and create connections cause that is really important especially in the field of Investment Banking!</p>
<p>What else do you suggest I do?</p>
<p>Try to find internships in New York over the summers. Other than that, sounds like you’re handling it.</p>
<p>Snarf - Do students from Tufts get good internships at New York for Investment Banking?</p>
<p>Bit of a silly question, really. Many do. Many don’t. Whether or not you get an internship is up to you, not the school. No one keep statistics, so my evidence is purely anecdotal. I know plenty of kids from TFG who do, so it’s certainly possible. Career Services always has tons of internship listings for financial firms all over the country. I only suggest New York because you’ll want to start building your network as early as possible, and New York hosts more i-banking than anywhere else.</p>
<p>Honestly, if students (and some parents, for that matter) put half as much effort into developing their skill set and marketing themselves as they put into fretting about which school would get them where, they’d be a lot more successful. Just relax! Enjoy your last summer home, and don’t sweat the fall: college is supposed to be fun! You’ll figure things out as they come. No use speculating on your chances of getting an internship when in a few months you can actually start applying for them.</p>
<p>EDIT: It’s funny I say that- I’ve been telling myself largely the same thing for the past week. I just interviewed for a really great job last Wednesday. I hear back on Friday, and I keep having to tell myself to relax; no use speculating on whether or not I got it when I’ll find out for sure in a few days. A bit older and none the wiser, apparently ;-)</p>
<p>A solid background in math is the most important skill to have for investment banking. I assume you’re going to do a double in math anyways? It probably overlaps better with Quant Econ.</p>
<p>Off topic, but I’ve been looking to reinvest most my portfolio given the recent wave of optimism. I came across some research articles published by Wharton kids and they’re really damn good.</p>
<p>Well if he wanted to be a quant he’d do better to double major in mathematics and computer science, but he’d probably need a Ph.D. If he was interested in fundamental analysis, econ would be the better degree.</p>
<p>My personal bias is that I’m extremely distrustful of overly complex math in finance. Don’t get me wrong, I love math on its own, but I remain unconvinced that the sort of math today’s quants are doing leads to a healthier financial system (and the whole “depression” thing seems to back me up on this). My objection has two prongs. The first concerns the validity of a lot of what they’re doing: reducing everything to numbers doesn’t always yield an applicable, relevant, or even realistic result, yet it’s done anyway and then these results are widely disseminated and believed. The second regards transparency: most quants have Ph.D’s in math or physics, the idea that your average broker, never mind average personal investor, will understand what they’re actually doing is ludicrous. Quants have come out in recent months telling horror stories of how managers would request that they get certain results from certain numbers. Few of them having any background in finance and not realizing the repercussions of their actions, they applied magic-like formulas to numbers not inherently amenable to such manipulation. Dollars are not the same as numbers, there are certain things they can’t do: for instance to say you have -$100 means simply that you owe $100, not that there actually exists money with a negative value. Yet, since they were tasked with making certain numbers come from certain other numbers, and they were mathematical geniuses, they did so. No one with a practical idea of how finance worked could possibly check their math, and most people were too afraid of looking stupid to admit they had no idea what was going on. As a result, pricing and valuation models that managers would like to be true became, via inventive quants, accepted as true. Enter economical collapse as reality eventually shows many such valuation models to be entirely fictional. I’m not saying there’s no place in finance for math; every financial analyst should have a good idea of math. What I am questioning is whether there should be a place for math and physics Ph.Ds in finance. The best investors I know of (Warren Buffett, Charlie Munger, Bill Miller, Stephen Schwartzmann, David Dreman, John Neff, etc.) made great returns using fundamental analysis and without resorting to any math more difficult than what you would learn as part of an Economics degree; not Ph.D level voodoo.</p>