<p>Someone recently told me that med school admissions is based almost entirely on GPA/MCATs much more so than the undergraduate admissions process. How true is this?</p>
<p>Are EC's/Athletics very important to med school admissions? I know I will do some form of athletics in college but in deciding between varsity and intramural, does this even matter. If to be on varsity my GPA is 3.7 instead of 3.8 would I still get the same look?</p>
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How true is this?
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<p>Very</p>
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Are EC's/Athletics very important to med school admissions?
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<p>ECs are also very important, especially medical ECs. Athletics will be looked at as another EC, but won't really do anything special for your application.</p>
<p>Medical ECs...</p>
<p>Would that include things like EMT work, medical research, or medical missions to other countries? What else constitutes a medical EC?</p>
<p>^ yep, all of that would count. Basically anything that exposes you to the profession of medicine</p>
<p>ECs, especially medical are key. I have just run into three dudes with 4.0s and over 37s MCATs (even a 15 in one subject!) and one from an Ivy, who barely made it with one admission. They were shot down elsewhere and did not get invited to many interviews.</p>
<p>Lack of meaningful ECs was the common denominator.</p>
<p>Someone I know from Harvard had a 3.94, decent MCAT (the exact score is unknown), and applied to 25 schools last year. She got 5 interviews, but got rejected from all of them. It turned out that she led an antisocial life where she never participated in a single EC until the start of her junior year.</p>
<p>sorry to interrupt you.
It should be case by case.
but generally how many ECs are doing people to apply for top med schools ?
can you tell us your cases who were accepted to top med schools ?</p>
<p>It's not about the quantity but the quality. Almost everyone can find 10-15 EC's to list but the quality is not the same. Everyone has the typical research, clinical, volunteering but the people who get into top med schools have additional awards/activities that allows them to stand out. Some of the ones from my med school class and from people I met during interviews include: advance degrees (like PhD's), founding their own biotech company, former investment bankers, Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, Teach for America, Rhodes/Fulbright/Marshall Scholars, Division 1 athletes, publishing a book, Olympic-quality gymnast (was going to the Olympics trials but injured biceps), etc.</p>
<p>If you haven't done any EC until junior year, how bad does that affect you? I recently became a premed and wasn't really involved in any EC until now.</p>
<p>norcal,
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: advance degrees (like PhD's), founding their own biotech company, former investment bankers, Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, Teach for America, Rhodes/Fulbright/Marshall Scholars, Division 1 athletes, publishing a book, Olympic-quality gymnast (was going to the Olympics trials but injured biceps), etc.
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<p>I think it is important for every one to realize that these should be considered exceptional experiences and by no means represent the norm. Ivy programs attract high caliber candidates and those experiences would be well received but not everyone at Harvard med has that record.</p>
<p>What schools (including the top schools) want to see is that the candidate has risen to a level of responsibility in his job, club or affiliation. The mundane ECs like charity work, shadowing, etc become meaningful only if the candidate has invested a consistent and significant amount of time on them. Also, admissions committees seek candidates with significant medical exposure (paramedic work, phlebotomist, volunteer, etc) because this shows them the candidate has spent time with direct contact with patients ( which is the KEY)</p>
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I think it is important for every one to realize that these should be considered exceptional experiences and by no means represent the norm. Ivy programs attract high caliber candidates and those experiences would be well received but not everyone at Harvard med has that record.
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<p>NCG pointed out that these tended to be exceptional ECs that allowed people to stand out. Certainly, not everyone (even at top schools) will have ECs like these, but they are far more common that you might think. The school I go to is not a top-20 school, but there are people in the M1 class alone who: have a PhD, did Teach for America, did significant research work between undergrad and med school, etc etc. </p>
<p>It does make sense, considering that the average age of matriculants is around 24 these days.</p>
<p>But your second paragraph is right on. Don't worry about filling up your 15 EC spots - worry about having meaningful ECs.</p>
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I think it is important for every one to realize that these should be considered exceptional experiences and by no means represent the norm. Ivy programs attract high caliber candidates and those experiences would be well received but not everyone at Harvard med has that record.</p>
<p>What schools (including the top schools) want to see is that the candidate has risen to a level of responsibility in his job, club or affiliation. The mundane ECs like charity work, shadowing, etc become meaningful only if the candidate has invested a consistent and significant amount of time on them. Also, admissions committees seek candidates with significant medical exposure (paramedic work, phlebotomist, volunteer, etc) because this shows them the candidate has spent time with direct contact with patients ( which is the KEY)
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<p>True. But, my point is that it is extremely difficult to distinguish yourself based on research, clinical, or volunteering activities. Almost everyone does research but only a few have published multiple times or have published in Science/Nature. Almost everyone volunteers at a hospital or shadows or works as an EMT but unless you're a nurse or, as was the case with one guy I met at UC Davis, travel around with a transplant surgical team, it's nothing special. Likewise, everyone is volunteering at their local soup kitchen or tutoring inner city kids. These types of activities (research/clinical) account for maybe 5-6 of your EC slots. Yet, you have space for 5-10 others. I think it's ultimately these 5-10 others that get you into med school (keep in mind, you do still need research and clinical activities). My examples weren't meant to suggest that you need to be superhuman but rather to exemplify the broad range of activities that one can participate in, everything from teaching at inner city schools to training for the Olympics to working on Wall Street to studying in England on a Rhodes Scholarship. So, my answer to the million dollar question, "What EC's do I need to get into top med schools?" is that you should do something that you're passionate about (beyond just research and clinical activities). Not all of my classmates are Rhodes Scholars but just about everyone has 1-2 things that make you say "cool!"</p>
<p>And to those of you wondering why med schools would pick someone based on their ability to play rugby or based on their previous experience working as a culinary chef, well because they can. They receive 8000 applications for 150 spots. They interview 900 applicants and accept 250 for those 150 spots. Just about all 900 of those interviewees have the requisite MCAT/GPA as well as the recs, essays, clinical experience, research experience, etc. So, the next thing med schools are trying to do is assemble a unique and interesting class. Med schools love to brag about the different talents that's represented in their class (mine certainly does it all the time). And so, the top schools are looking for interesting students that will make their graduating class more diverse and more unique from other med school classes. This is less of an issue with lower tier or mid tier schools since their applicants aren't as polished as the applicants to top tier schools.</p>
<p>Thanks for the help guys! </p>
<p>So, norcalguy, it is common that people receive another degree before medicine? I always wanted to get a Master's in Public Health or Epidemiology but thought it might have to be a dual degree program. This in fact might help distinguish me if I had such a degree?</p>
<p>Also, is the Peacecorps a good thing? Again, I always thought I would like to join but also worries that Med Schools wouldn't want me after a year off. But I guess if the average matriculant is 24 it wouldn't be bad...</p>
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So, norcalguy, it is common that people receive another degree before medicine? I always wanted to get a Master's in Public Health or Epidemiology but thought it might have to be a dual degree program. This in fact might help distinguish me if I had such a degree?
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<p>It's fairly common. There's 3 phD's and around 6-7 other students with masters in my graduating class. I do not suggest getting a degree solely for med school admissions. In fact, a masters isn't likely to help very much and a phD takes a long time to get.</p>
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Also, is the Peacecorps a good thing? Again, I always thought I would like to join but also worries that Med Schools wouldn't want me after a year off. But I guess if the average matriculant is 24 it wouldn't be bad...
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<p>Just the opposite. Med schools encourage students to take time off. I'd say that around 30-40% of my classmates have taken at least one year off after college. Peace Corps is highly valued by med schools but it is grueling and requires a 2-year commitment. If it were easy to do, then med schools wouldn't value it.</p>
<p>this is somewwhat off topic... But does legacy status help in admissions to medical schools like undergraduate schools? I am a legacy at Hopkins (grandfather is fairly famous doctor and researcher) and UChicago (uncle is respected, but not famous)</p>
<p>Also, what if I have family on staff. At Feinberg (Northwestern), my grandfather has a department named after him and uncle also works there.</p>
<p>So many questions...</p>
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They interview 900 applicants and accept 250 for those 150 spots.
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250 people for 150 spots? :confused:</p>
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Not all of my classmates are Rhodes Scholars but just about everyone has 1-2 things that make you say "cool!"
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I'd be interested in knowing what they are, other than things like being a participant in the Olympics or publishing a book or any other thing already mentioned.</p>
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250 people for 150 spots?
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<p>Not everyone who gets an acceptance actually attends</p>
<p>^Theoretically, though it may never happen, it's possible that all the 250 people who are accepted decide to attend the school. In that case, what would the school do?</p>
<p>Med schools (just like colleges) have an excellent gauge on their yield. They know how much to accept without over/under enrolling. However, overenrollment is a significant problem for med schools. If a college overenrolls by 10 people, it's not a big deal to accommodate them. If a med school overenrolls by 10 people (as Michigan Med did a few years ago), it puts a huge burden on the medical school because educating medical students is expensive. So, med schools accept few students initially and rely heavily on waitlists. It's not usual to see a significant percentage of the class come from waitlists. Or if you overenroll, you can offer incentives for students not to matriculate. I believe UMich offered students free tuition for a year to defer their matriculation by a year.</p>