ECs - depth vs breadth for top tier schools

Parents Forum
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<p>^^^Exactly, jonri. I agree. </p>

<p>By the way, when D is a senior, she could look into entering the NFAA (National Foundation of the Arts) ARTS Awards adjudication in both dance and also enter for creative writing. My D entered this for musical theater and won an award and so this is an example of not just participating in a field of interest in depth but doing something that may stand out in it. </p>

<p>The idea of writing about dance is a great one too. My brother-in-law writes articles as a ballet critic on the side that are published. Of course, he is older! But perhaps an article from a student perspective might be neat.</p>

<p>I don’t know if your D is looking for things to do to branch out and so it really has to come from her but suggestions can help but I would not make her do any she didn’t genuninely want to do. Some kids come up with things on their own and some are itching for ideas. Not sure of your D’s personality but starting a little dance company to take performances into elem schools or nursing homes would be fun for some girls.</p>

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<p>Thank-you. Over the dinner I told her about some suggestions on this thread. She really liked the idea of teaching dance to young kids. I told her that because many parents work, it is not possible for some kids to take dance lessons at a studio. She actually looked sad about that. It is something it never dawned on her, because we have always been available to drive her everywhere. I think most performers tend to be more self-centered. I know with my girls, sometimes they act like it’s all about them, especially when it’s performing or auditioning time. It’ll be good for her to share her dance experience with other people outside of performing.</p>

<p>We would be very proud of her if she could get into Yale, but we wouldn’t be heart broken if she didn’t. If someone (like a private college counselor) were to tell us if she were to drop ballet do fencing, stop playing piano and pick up viola (someone told me it’s a hook), then she could get into Yale, I don’t think it would be worth it. But if it’s a matter of tweaking her ECs a bit to give her some edge, then it may be worth considering.</p>

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<p>Oldfort, teen girls where we live have done this. Our elementary schools have after school programs for parents who work and kids stay after school. Or I recall back when my kids went there were also after school enrichment clubs offered too. Some teens from our dance studio (which is 25 miles away) have run dance classes at the elem school after school. These kids are not kids whose parents can take them to dance (it is not close by and they work) or can’t afford to or whatever. So, they may not be the same families considering ballet at our studio. If you don’t have an afterschool program at the elem school where you live, your D could look into any community space available to teach her ballet class to kids. Two summers, my D ran a musical theater camp for two weeks teaching voice, dance, and acting and putting on an original show with the kids (about middle school age) and she started it with a friend and found and rented space from the local community theater and publicized the program and signed families up. She actually made a lot of money too!</p>

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<p>And oldfort, I would not support any college counselor who told a kid to drop ballet for fencing or switch from piano to viola. I don’t believe in makeovers or shaping the kid. Go with the kid you’ve got and support their endeavors and discuss what they want to do with them and if they want suggestions, fine. The best endeavors are ones the student thinks of and wants to do. I’d say second to that, but still OK, would be that the kid really wants to do something else with their area of interest but can’t think of quite how to go about it and is open to some suggestions and picks from that. I am not into telling a kid what to do for their ECs to get into college. Sharing with them that certain traits like initiative or leadership or so on are good to demonstrate in a competitive playing field is fine too. Then it is up to them. It is worth discussing with them but not pushing them to do something.</p>

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<p>When I was in high school, the only things I did were dance and theatre, heavy on the dance in the first half and heavy on the theatre in the second half. My senior year I also did Varsity Quiz (geek club) and a secular humanist club, but I don’t think they really looked at those since I only did them senior year. I had no idea then that there was such an obsession with having extracurricular activities… I just did what I wanted to do. I think it’s idiotic to be so obsessed with having the “right” activities to get into college. I had similar scores to your daughter, slightly higher grades, and I got into a few top-tier schools including Vassar, where I am happily entering my junior year. I continue to do dance and theatre for an inordinate amount of hours every week and it’s what gets me through life. THAT’S how you should pick what you do. If a top-tier school doesn’t want you because you don’t do sixteen thousand stupid activities that aren’t your passion, then why would you want to go there anyway?!</p>

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<p>I have never understood people who do ECs just to get into college. I can’t relate to it. I think ECs are for pursuing what you want to do. And truthfully, colleges are looking for kids who will contribute to campus life and not stop these endeavors once they are admitted. For my kids, their ECs were lifelong passions and were things they had chosen to continue doing IN college. Selective colleges want kids who will be involved on campus. </p>

<p>I recall a conversation I once had when visiting a friend in another state who sent her kids to a very good private day school. We come from a non-competitive community and my kids went to a rural public school. My kids were heavily engaged in ECs. I recall on my visit, my oldest D was a senior in college and her apps were in and the friend asked me, “is your D gonna bother with ski racing this winter now that her apps are in?” I was floored. I could not even imagine such an idea! My D was very passionate about ski racing. It wasn’t to get into college. She’d have done it if she never went to college. She had done it her entire life and continued it even in college. Give it up? NO way!</p>

<p>I met someone this year who does a sport and is hoping to be recruited for that sport but there is a chance the student may not be recruited. I asked if the student is not recruited for a varsity team, is he interested in colleges that have that sport as a club team and was told no. I was told that the sport was considered a “ticket” into college if possible. I did not understand how if a student is passionate about that sport, why they would not want to find schools where they could continue to play it even if not recruited (such as a club team). They would just give it up. They did not care about finding colleges that had that sport he could participate in, unless it was a college that recruited him. It was m merely a ticket into a better school if it works they said. Being sure he could continue to do the sport in any capacity in college was not of concern or interest.</p>

<p>So, I have learned that there are those who do ECs just to get into college. I"m not into that. I believe you should do activities you truly want to do. I can’t imagine pushing my kids to do any either. Our kids pushed us. I can’t imagine deciding what activities one needs to do for college admissions. Do what you enjoy. Flourish in those activities. Accomplish. Achieve. Lead. Contribute. WHAT activities you do is not as important as what you do in the activity. Do it for its own sake and let the rest follow.</p>

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<p>Oldfort, I think your dialogue with her at dinner sounds excellent. You gave her a new menu of ideas to see which she’d pick up on, if any. Since she expressed some interest in teaching dance to young children who don’t have the same mobility (driving parents) as she does, it already stretched her thinking. Simply by taking on a new challenge, even if the classes go bumpily, gives her something to think about outside of herself during this very self-absorbing senior year. It may add to her emotional confidence to go off to college a year from now. Point is: it doesn’t matter so much if the attempt is a grand success. The attempting says something about her character, that she’ll venture into new territory to try out a new idea or approach. It builds on a core interest and gives back to the community. It’s intrinsically good for your daughter’s knowledge of the world and others in it, no matter what the college outcome. Working with kids adds another emotional element to her life, and artists/dancers lead from the heart. </p>

<p>We found good bus transportation from h.s. to elementary schools within the same district, in case your car schedule doesn’t segue with possible opportunities. They were glad to route our kids using the elementary school as if it was their own home address, on the days they volunteered :)</p>

<p>It might develop as an offshoot of an afterschool sports program, or she might try offering it within an afterschool Literacy/Tutoring program. I taught in schools where their Literacy Afterschool Program (remedial in nature) required a physical break. Every class needed an art, music or physical activity break sometime between their running hours of 3-5 p.m. These kids have been in a school classroom already since 8:45 a.m., so you betcha they do need a physical break, even if it’s primarily a Literacy or Tutoring afterschool academic program. </p>

<p>The dance/art/music students (who were generally college undergrads) ran from room to room, doing 20 minutes sessions of their specialty, making (for them) a full two hours. In other words, even if a Literacy program runs daily, they rotate dance/p.e./art as the non-academic “break.” That way, your D might be able to do this 1-2 times weekly, even if the program itself runs everyday M-F for the kids. </p>

<p>Try contacting the Literacy specialist for your school district to see if they need this kind of physical break for the kids. Good luck. I know this is more specific than you asked for but I’m just downloading what I’ve seen, as a starting point. Often these programs are created when someone approaches a school official with the idea. If the public school is too bureaucratic, there are also community centers and private schools with more flexibility to initiate good ideas quickly. Another possible venue is as part of a church Sunday School, where she might be a visiting dance specialist to all the young classrooms for 20 min apiece. She could offer it as a simple physical break, without any reference at all to the religious programming of the Sunday School. Kids need to move! Finally, she might seek out a collective of homeschooling parents (try Craigslist) seeking inexpensive alternatives to afterschool studio lessons.</p>

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<p>Soozie,</p>

<p>No issue with what you’ve said (in fact, I agree whole heartedly). I did what I love(d) and don’t regret it. College probably pushed me to try harder to be outstanding in these areas, but I didn’t do anything I didn’t genuinely enjoy doing. In fact, I still keep in touch with my HS Japanese teacher, even though I can no longer take the language (department issues of the insurmountable variety). I just thought we’ve covered how awesome your Ds are in good depth before, though you are of course sincerely justified in being <em>extremely</em> proud of them (and I type that without a hint of sarcasm).</p>

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<p>My D had 2 ECs – one individual sport where she was on Varsity, but not all-league (took about 15 hours per week year round), and one group music (about 3 hours per week outside of class), again no awards. She was accepted at one of the HYPSM colleges. Do what you love. Let them do what they love. Let the chips fall where they will. If she hadn’t been accepted there she had 3 solid (but less prestigious) acceptances.</p>

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<p>My take on ECs is that they should round out the student’s personality or self-image. I’ve read again and again that admissions give applicants nicknames that reflect their points of differentiation. My son, for example, was Eagle Scout Artist from Indonesia. He had a friend who was a URM discus thrower from a low population state. </p>

<p>These handles ususally include traditional ECs – sports, arts, student government – but can also combine diversity demographics and personal focuses. The key point is that selective colleges are looking for interesting kids who do interesting things. Kids who involve themselves to the point of passion in one or two activities or causes and who will bring their intense enthusiasm to campus. Lopsided can actually be good.</p>

<p>oldfort, I agree with the above posts that suggest that your daughter “spin off” her interest in ballet to a collary – for example, teaching ballet, writing about dance, traveling to study about ethnic dance. Summers offer a great opportunity for intensive activities.</p>

<p>I would suggest that your daughter plan to submit a performance CD and a dance oriented package which would include: A resume of classes, performances, awards, accomplishments. A supplemental recommendation from an instructor or mentor. Limited (one or two max) media articles. A personal statement. Essays and recommendations can enhance and reinforce.</p>

<p>Getting back to the adcom shorthand, I think this works best with threes. Your daughter is the dancer/writer from . . , who . . .? Fill in the blank.</p>

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<p>I would just like to add to the discussion the fact that ballet training needs to be several times a week, in order to keep strength and flexibility required for the level of dance this girl does. Sports and music can have similar demands, I suppose, but in our house, we are well aware that taking, say, a week off, is not something that can be easily done. Along with rigorous academics, the demands of ballet may make other EC’s difficult to do. Going to class, getting to and from class, and showering can be quite a lot to fit in as it is.</p>

<p>If this girl is in a ballet program, the teachers may even discourage other activities.</p>

<p>It may also be that eventually this girl will want to go to a school where she can major in dance, whether a college or conservatory. If dance is her passion, why would she even want to go to Yale? Is it possible that she will pursue dance after high school in some way?</p>

<p>I would also suggest that the daughter broaden her horizons in dance. After doing ABT for a few summers, maybe she would like to try something different, like LINES Ballet in San Francisco, where there is a little more creativity involved, and ballet dancers learn to move in some new ways.</p>

<p>Most dancers today need to be proficient in more than ballet: modern is particularly important (sometimes termed “contemporary”), but jazz can be helpful also. We have seen some ballet dancers in auditions who have trouble bending their torsos, and who seemed uncomfortable with new movements. Since she is still young, maybe she would like to do other genres as well as ballet, if there is any extra time. Or perhaps her studio and summer intensives already offer her modern classes, or flamenco, jazz, hip hop, whatever she likes.</p>

<p>We know girls who did ballet for years, and then, in the last year of high school, stopped. One of these girls did, in fact, get into teaching young children dance in that last year of high school. Our daughter considered giving it up in her junior year, but reconsidered. The original poster’s daughter is old enough to decide if she wants to continue, and how. They tend to change a lot in high school, so, you never know, she could end up a music or theater kid in a year, or even end up focused on taking care of animals!</p>

<p>Or, she could come to you in a year and let you know that she does not want to go to college, but wants to join a company. High school certainly is an adventure for us parents, as we watch our kids grow and change in all kinds of ways.</p>

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<p>OP,</p>

<p>Your D sounds amazing: only a rising sophomore, and already scoring at SAT 2150 range with GPA 4.0. Plus passionate interest in Ballet. I don’t know how I could possibly think of a way to “improve” her qualification. When you have a kid that good, my instinct would be, let it be. When you try to tinker too much with what is naturally wonderful, perhaps the results may not be much better, while the “tinkering” may take the luster of the natural joy and spark from the original. Suppose she does get into Yale instead of another school within top 10-15 school, how much difference would it really make in the long run? After all, she will surely get in a top school. We are not doing Yale vs, community college comparison.</p>

<p>My S1 is starting college this fall.</p>

<p>He had DISMAL EC on the application packages. He spent first two years of HS doing nothing but playing computer games, and last two years teaching himself economics and international finance by reading tons of advanced materials - his passion. The “self studying” was nothing that could be verified by any institutional awards or recognition when he was applying to colleges, though it paid off big time because he won a first place award in a Wall Street firm sponsored competition in May that led to a paid summer internship this summer at the sponsoring firm. In his HS graduation luncheon, the school “acknowledged” all the achievement and accomplishments like awards, etc, and he is about the only one who did not get any. I joked that it takes a special talent to avoid so many balls being thrown in your direction. (his HS is an extremely selective and competitive public magnet school, so these 60+ kids manage to bring home incredible national awards, etc)</p>

<p>He was soundly rejected by HYP’s, but he did get into a university on a USNWR top 10 list. This is a school with a myth that they care more about essays and other things than scores and stats. I don’t see how that could have applied to S1. As I mentioned above, he has dismal ECs, but he had perfect SAT scores, and very good grades (not top though) from HS rated to be one of the top 5 public schools in the nation. I strongly believe that in his case, it’s the scores that got him in. He did have an interesting essay where he said he is the happiest kid in school since nobody put any pressure on him in his entire life and how happy he found economics/finances as his passion - but come on, colleges are picking candidates on the happiness measure. </p>

<p>What I found interesting is what happened after all the admission decisions came out. Many of S’s friends from HS were extremely focused for years building college resumes with all the right ECs, and yes they got into very good schools. However, they are essentially taking the summer off - I guess they got burned out. On the other hand, S never really applied himself to build a model resume - from a traditional point of view, you could say he was VASTLY under performing considering his potential. He did what gave him pleasure all throughout his HS - practically hedonistic - an ultimate epicurean. </p>

<p>Yet, this summer, he started his internship the Monday after he graduated from HS, and he is working 7 AM to 7 PM including commuting time. He is still working after all the other interns finished their “tour of duty”, and he is the youngest intern, since the other interns are college rising juniors and seniors. Obviously he is doing very well since he already got two investment proposals worth well over $20M he made to the senior executives approved and in the process of being implemented. The senior executives at the firm introduced him to the board members and are trying to convince him to come back next summer (he would rather diversify by working in another firm if possible). What was really rewarding to watch is how much enthusiasm, dedication, and passion he is bringing to this internship project. He says, this is better than any computer game he ever played, and better than most of the parties he has been to. He is also maturing and getting savvy with the organizational behavior and office politics leaps and bounds. </p>

<p>Looking back, I wonder if the ultimate outcome would have been better if we pressured him to “live up to his potential” in the college admission game. Mom of one of his friends even gently chided me that I was sort of neglectful by not “guiding and encouraging” my son to be “better prepared” for the college admission game. BUT… Suppose he made it to Harvard with such “tinkering”, would he have been better prepared for his long term prospect? Would he have such unvarnished, sheer joy in doing what truly interests him? Would he have a clear sense that the path he will be following is entirely his own, and nobody else’s from the beginning to the end? I don’t know. But, I am very happy to see the joy he experiences being a complete owner and master of his own path. He is brimming with all the things he plans to do at college to further his goals and feed his passion in international finance. He is already planning where to reach out to and who to talk to so that he is perfectly positioned to snatch the best possible internship next summer. This is the same kid who did nothing but playing computer games during the first two years of HS (it was his passion then, so he attacked this with the same maddening passion to the exclusion of almost everything else).</p>

<p>My son’s example is just one data point, and I am sure there are a lot of counter points and examples. I am just sharing this so that we can have collectively fuller data points and examples. </p>

<p>S2 is not like his brother in terms of the ability to get perfect score in any kind of exam by simply being there. He is a solid 3.6 GPA kind of kid with an SAT 2000 as a target aspiration. Yet, he is like his brother in terms of passion for things that which really fire him up: all things military. He wants to go to college on an ROTC scholarship. He has a clear passion that he is following with unmatched zeal. He is not doing much else at all. I am letting him be. So, he won’t get into top 20 schools, but I believe he will be the best officer he can be and he will bring dedication, passion, and discipline to what he chose to do since it’s all his, and nobody else’s. One does not know between these two kids, who will be more successful in their own chosen field: I don’t believe the school diploma has the ultimate say over who gets ahead faster and further. For college admission, I am better prepared with S2 since I am more experienced also. But, my role is limited to helping S2 better position himself given what he chose to engage and helping him manage the admission game better, but I am not going to tinker with the basic material of who he is and what he chooses to do.</p>

<p>I joke that I am raising organic free range chickens. They may look scrawny compared to the other chickens, but I like what I see.</p>

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<p>heyonjlee - no, it really isn’t that big of deal if she were to get into Yale (or maybe a different HYPS) or to a top 20 schools. As we could see how happy D1 is at Cornell (yup, dropped down to #15 this year), and a great education she is getting there. Cornell doesn’t have much of dance program to speak of, that was part of the reason it was not on top of D1’s list. She went to a few ballet classes when she was a freshman, but found they were not at the same level she was used to. But D1 has joined a top dance club at school and found people to share her passion. She has also found a teaching position with the local dance company. This teaching job has become the most gratifying thing for her at school.</p>

<p>D2 maybe a bit serious than D1 about the dance. She has a much better body type for it. From very young age, D2 has been singled out as someone with great potential. In some sense, I have been holding her back because I am very reluctant to have her pursue it professionally. It is a very difficult life. As good as she maybe, as she gets older she is also seeing there are other dancers with much nicer feet, better extensions and a lot shorter than she is (she is 5’8", but petite). </p>

<p>It is mandatory for her to take jazz and modern. I have been told that she is quite good in jazz because she often gets the solo. Her training is still classic ballet, which is also the foundation for many different dances. She has tried to do some JV sports at middle school - track and tennis (she was one of the fastest short distance runners and a decent tennis player). Unfortunately with tennis, movement of ankles (strength building) is very different than ballet. But fencing seem to be ok or complementary to ballet (D1 was approached by an Olympic level coach to want to train her because of her balance, grace and she was a left handed fencer).</p>

<p>I like the idea of adding ECs to stretch what D2 is already doing. College aside, to be able to give back some and share one’s passion with other people is always a good thing. She is still only a sophmore, many things(wonder if she’ll be able to keep up her stats) could happen between now to when she applies.</p>

<p>One thing I will say about having a focused EC is it has kept both of girls out of trouble. While some kids were worrying about partying or not being in the right clique, our kids were worried about getting everything done. It’s hard to go out on Fri or Sat nights because of ballet on Sat or even Sun. They do schoolwork sitting in the studio or car ride back and forth. I don’t think this is any different than athletes or anyone who is committed to an EC.</p>

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<p>hyeonjlee while your son’s scores probably opened the door at the school that accepted him, I bet you anything that the essay got him over the threshold. I think he sold them that he is a self-motivated and intellectual even if he wasn’t running after the prizes. He sounds charming and it sounds like he figured out how to spin what could have been seen as a negative attribute into a positive.</p>

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<p>He got into a top 10 USNWR school, right? How much “better” does it get? To paraphrase another poster, it’s slicing the baloney way too thin to act as though the top 10 itself has, well, 10 layers of tiers. Your son did an outstanding job!</p>

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<p>hyeonjlee, agree with mathmom. Your son sounds amazing and I can see why a top college would take him…very high academic stats and background and his essay showed a lot of self motivation.</p>

<p>I just want to say that while you talked about your son’s activities (which were not the normal ECs) as giving him much pleasure and that he was not trying to build a resume for college…please realize that there are many kids (including my own) who have done heavy duty ECs their whole life who were not trying to build a college resume but like your son, LOVED their activities for their own sake and would have been engaged in these in the same exact way even if not college bound. </p>

<p>compmom, I agree about the rigors of ballet. My kids grew up as dancers too. The OP said her D attended dance 12-20 hours per week. For some, that may feel like plenty of time and the limit to what they can or wish to do with their time outside the classroom. Even my D who danced 13 hours per week with a hour roundtrip to the studio five days per week, was in other very involved ECs such as theater productions, voice lessons, acting lessons, piano lessons, guitar lessons, jazz band, creating student run cabaret revues and so forth. Something like theater productions is also a huge time commitment. In our case, sometimes the theater was one hour each way. So was voice lessons and acting lessons. I’m not saying the OP’s D needs to do that but many dancers who dance five times per week, may be engaged in something else or a related pursuit and it is not impossible if the student WANTS to do that.</p>

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<p>My youngest, the dancer, could never ever fit anything else in with the demands of dance, and school. But the kids of many posters here have been able to do that. Depends on the kid.</p>

<p>My last comment here is that looking ahead, a BFA is a very worthwhile degree in and of itself. Most ballet professionals do not go to college at all, though many are now taking one class a semester to build college credits. However, those who opt to do BFA’s at Juilliard, NYU, Purchase, Butler, Indiana, Point Park, Utah, etc.etc. find that degree just as useful as any other bachelor’s degree, providing an entree to jobs and graduate work in many fields, while still keeping the options open for professional dance. Getting into these schools requires almost single-minded dedication, since admission is based on audition. They really don’t care that much about grades and stats, at least compared to the audition itself- nor do they care about EC’s. In fact, many dancers are pretty focused in that one area, for better or worse.</p>

<p>In junior and senior year a lot of things can happen. Dancers stop dancing and do theater. Dancers who are fully committed, suddenly find they do not want to miss out on “normal” social life. Some kids suffer burnout. I think it is good to keep dance options open, as well as the option for a good college experience, if the student is up to it- knowing, as I said, that every year brings change.</p>

<p>Hyeonjlee, our son is a little like yours. Won’t go into detail, but would say that the decision to experience several companies is a good idea. Our son did early internships, and got offered jobs (tried to tempt him to leave college early, but he resisted the temptation, and the money!), but he ended up working with his very last internship company, in the end. Even then, he interviewed with 7 companies. He really felt good about where he ended up, because he had explored so many options and truly made the choice, rather than just taking the first thing that was offered. He is still like a kid playing with Legos, only he is programming and developing new products. Very happy :)</p>

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<p>Hyeonjlee…I LOVE the free range chicken analogy! I have a free ranger myself, a rising sophomore so we will see what happens, but major congratulations to you for letting those kids find their own ways, and follow them out!</p>

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<p>I hope I did not give the impression to others here that I believe kids who are working hard to build a solid college application resume are not doing what they LOVED but being just opportunistic. Au contraire… I admire these kids very much. In life, to achieve a goal, you do need to play by the rules and requirements set by others (until you are in a position to change them!) to a certain degree, after all you are not living on a deserted island by yourself). And it takes maturity and discipline to build a whole package that is called “your resume”. The only point I have is, who leads it? The kid him/herself? Or, did the parents engineer it? I also believe the OP’s daughter is very self motivated, and it sounds like she is a terrific kid with near perfect qualification for any top school. </p>

<p>Given how dismal my son’s “stated” EC was, I think it was a minor miracle that he was accepted into the school he is going to this fall. There were countless times (too many to count) where I had to bite my tongue when I felt that he did not bother to add that one stroke of finishing touch to make something perfect - like school exam which he could have easily gotten 100 instead of 95 if he just perused through the book the night before for 20 minutes. I learned in the graduation award ceremony luncheon how many opportunities there were to get some great sounding external awards that would have beefed up his college resume which he did not bother to participate even though some of these were really a relatively minor time commitment for him: all he had to do was to go to the competition and put some work in between. For instance, he was probably the best physics kid at his school without even trying, but he did not enter any competition, while kids who were below his level were motivated and disciplined to enter the competition, follow through the competition schedule and brought home awards, etc. </p>

<p>There were times when I scratched my head and seriously wondered whether he is going to be a permanent “brilliant but seriously under performing” individual who simply lacked the motivation to do live up to his potential. The only thing I went by was, funny enough, how deadly serious he was with his on line gaming when he was totally into it. He was not just playing it. He researched the whole thing top to bottom, reading game rules and fine prints cover to cover, building endless spreadsheet models to simulate the outcomes of various strategies, monitoring and assiduously logging every other top players’ game styles and strategies to build a counter strategy to beat them. When I noticed it, I realized that he is a kind of kid who can take his passion to the whole new level as a science and art form. Though his “game addiction” was every parent’s nightmare, I realized there is a different dimension in the way he was playing it, so I let him be, much to the horror of some parents of his friends who were aware of what’s going on. Trust me, I was not really sure whether my approach was the right one, or whether I was a merely neglectful parent. I went by my gut. When he exhausted all he could think of in the world of on line gaming, he quit, moved on without even a backward glance, and found the economics/finance subject, and he did the same thing he did, only on a different subject matter. </p>

<p>In the end, it’s the same passion and zeal he is now brining to his internship, and will bring to his college career (he says, his goal is to graduate as a top 5 student in his college - a tall order given how that school is known for academic rigor, and to get the industry’s top internship positions every summer from now on - maybe doable given the great start he got this summer through which he is networking like crazy with amazing leads and recommendations). </p>

<p>My son may be an extreme example, and easily could have turned out in the opposite end of the spectrum. I also realize that this is just one example, and there are countless other stories of other kids. I am by no means advocating my approach as one to follow. I am simply adding a data point to the pool of available samples and examples. When we collectively have a much richer set of examples and data points, we can get a much bigger picture over all with wider range of possibilities…</p>

<p>Peace…</p>

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<p>hyeonjlee:</p>

<p>While I agree with you that the University of Chicago peeks at test scores a little more than it admits, I think you are dead wrong that your son’s essay, or his “EC”, were not huge plusses there. When you get to know the institution a little better, you will know that an essay saying “I am the happiest kid in school because I do whatever I want, which is reading about something in depth” would be like a neon sign saying “I am one of you!” Also, it wasn’t so long ago that it didn’t even take nonintellectual extra-curriculars into account in its admissions process. Those days are gone, but I’m certain that everyone there still remembers that there’s a place for people who mainly just want to study what makes them happy, without joining clubs, founding them, or generally attempting to lead anybody.</p>

<p>oldfort:</p>

<p>As others have hinted, don’t get too far ahead of yourself. Your daughter and her activities sound exactly like my daughter at the cusp of 10th grade. She had been taking 8 ballet classes a week, plus one each of modern and tap. Three months later, she had quit ballet forever, and was only doing the one tap class (to mollify her brother, who had taken up tap to have something to do while he hung around the dance school waiting for her). That DID give her more time for writing, though, and she got a semi-artistic job which was very satisfying.</p>

<p>But I wouldn’t worry about “only” doing ballet and writing, if that turns out to be what she “only” does. Both are pretty time-consuming and obsession-inducing, and if you can do them both well that’s a lot.</p>

<p>I respect what jonri is saying, too, but of the dozens of kids I know who have been accepted at one or more ultra-selective colleges over the past few years, no more than one or two has had even a glimmer of national recognition in anything. Sure, that can help, but the vast majority of kids accepted have not yet amazed anyone other than their own families and their immediate communities. What’s more, my son had four good friends who are now at Harvard, and all four, viewed in CC terms, were completely deficient in the EC department. One was a driven math/science person with a compelling personal story, but all she did was enter some science competitions and get a regional third prize or honorable mention. Other classmates did much better. Two did very little outside of the classroom, but were universally regarded by their classmates as the most intellectual members of their respective classes. The fourth did a lot of singing (including a state all-star chorus) and volunteering, and is an extraordinarily sweet guy, but no one would have mistaken him for a leader outside the classroom.</p>