<p>Pending an overnight visit in the fall (and some thinking about whether I'd choose Swat over Yale at twice the cost), I am seriously considering an ED application to Swarthmore. Amherst's FA calculator gives around 20k FM and 17k IM; we can swing around 20k, though with difficulty. But schools are not identical, and that's only an estimate. Swarthmore does not offer pre-application FA reads--I asked. My mother also thinks that applying ED will leave me with a less generous FA package than if I applied RD and could "bargain." (Mind, she also thinks that I have an 80% chance of RD acceptance. Asian parent delusions.)</p>
<p>Thoughts from the CC experts? If I end up falling for Swarthmore, is ED financially sensible?</p>
<p>Not expert, but I would suggest that ED and “financially sensible” are nearly contradictions. IMHO, ED should be used only when that one school is your dream school, the one you want to attend if there is any way possible to make it work (at common app schools you can decline the ED FA offer without consequence if it’s insufficient). Otherwise it’s a long time from November to May 1, and you might change your mind but be stuck. If you’d be happy enough at Swat/Yale/Amherst, factoring in the FA and delaying your decision seem appropriate.</p>
<p>I am sure that others more knowledgable than I will post but I do want to mention that few schools will “bargain” on FA. The advantage to not applying ED is that you will be able to see the FA information from multiple admits and compare them.</p>
<p>I disagree with those that say you should not apply ED if you need aid in all cases. When the school meets 100% of need and it’s highly competitive and ED is a boost, I think with careful research it’s doable.</p>
<p>First, I would get all the info you can on Swat aid. Loan cap if any and all the other general rules they publish. Then I would call with specific questions to clarify any remaining issues. The way to get that early read is just calling and asking specific questions of an aid officer. You should be able to calculate your I’M EFC pretty accurately that way.</p>
<p>vossron - Pending a long and thoughtful visit, Swat is indeed shaping up to be my dream school. I would be “happy enough” at Swat, Yale, Amherst, and a whole host of other schools (including less selective ones like Scripps or Knox)–but I love Swat and it feels like a perfect fit both socially and academically. In particular, I have very specific wishes in creative writing; many other schools will accomodate me, but only Swat has the faculty expertise to teach me in my field of interest.</p>
<p>ebeeeee - I used to believe that bargaining was taboo at the top schools, too, but I know someone who got 10k more from Cornell matching a Chicago merit scholarship.</p>
<p>hmom5 - Swat has a no-loans policy on FA. What other specific information would you recommend asking for/seeking out? My situation is pretty traditional: middle-class paycheck income, high home equity–only possible quirk would be an S-corp that doesn’t do diddly-squat (one of my mother’s many curious business ventures). The S-corp has no assets or income, and very little in expenses to my knowledge, so I don’t think it will be a change-factor?</p>
<p>My son applied ED to Amherst with very high financial need. It worked out fine. As you have already determined, it’s best to only do it with no-loan schools, or schools with a reasonable loan-cap. His FA came in at almost exactly what their online calculator estimated.</p>
<p>I think in his case it was a very wise decision.</p>
<p>In your case I’d only give some careful thought to what your income might generate in terms of family contribution. You say you’re “middle class”, but with an estimated EFC of 20K, I’d think your family income is well above what is actually an average income. The issue there is that while you may end up with a family contribution you can manage, it may be something higher than your parents want to pay. For many families it’s a fine line between “can’t afford it” and “don’t want to pay that much.”</p>
<p>Oftentimes at similar schools home equity is capped at a percentage of income. I believe it is something like 2.4 or 2.5 percent. (I’m sure someone here knows the actual figure.) That may make your home equity a bit more of an issue. Also consider any investment income, or other assets.</p>
<p>It seems like you’re thinking this through in just the right way. When we agreed that our son should apply ED it was because he knew for sure where he wanted to go, we felt that the FA was pretty predictable based on our very simple finances, and although his stats were right in there with accepted students, a boost --even a small one-- was definitely a good idea.</p>
<p>It’s true you can’t compare offers, but another way to consider it is if ED gives you an admissions boost, you may get into Swarthmore and be able to afford it due to their generous aid. Without ED what if you don’t get into Swarthmore, Yale or some other school with those great FA policies? Then you’re going to end up a lot worse off than if you’d gotten that ED acceptance.</p>
<p>After doing all your homework on how the FA policies at Swarthmore might work out for your family, if you feel 100% about going there and you think the aid will work out okay… then I think it’s a reasonable choice to apply ED.</p>
<p>Yes. So I need to decide for myself: am I willing to give up the possibility (however remote) of Yale at an extremely reasonable price for Swat at a “manageable” price? My parents have stated their willingness to pay our EFC, and they are committed to let me go to my dream school if at all possible; but they personally prefer the prestige of Yale, too.</p>
<p>I think you need to ask any questions that clarify how they will establish your EFC. If your mom is using the S Corp to show a loss against any family income, ask if they will add back that loss and expect the answer to be yes. Find out the home equity cap and how they will assess any other assets. If income is a paycheck, that should be straight forward.</p>
<p>^ Thanks hmom5. I don’t think my mother is using the S-Corp to show losses of more than 1k–it was meant to be an online mail-order type business, so little start-up capital–but I’ll definitely ask about home-equity and assets.</p>
<p>Does Swarthmore have an EDII option? Not sure if the timing would work out, but you could apply EA (non-binding) to Yale. Then you could apply EDII to Swarthmore <em>IF</em> Swarthmore was your first choice and you were willing to commit to attend.</p>
<p>That way, if you didn’t get in to Yale EA, that Yale issue is resolved. (I mean you could still be considered in the RD pool if you were deferred --assuming you do not apply EDII to Swat-- but you’d have a better sense of what your odds of admission would be --probably not likely.) A non-acceptance EA to Yale could allow you and your parents to put that option to rest.</p>
<p>If you do get accepted to Yale EA you’ll have a harder decision to make, but heck, worse comes to worst, you have an acceptance to Yale in your pocket.</p>
<p>The EDII option at Swat would still give you the same admissions boost since it would come with a committment to attend.</p>
<p>… depending on whether Swat does EDII at all…</p>
<p>Oooh. Thank you, 'rentof2! I hadn’t thought of that option (combination of options?) at all, and it would work because Swat does have EDII. Yale is the only school likely to give me a significantly different financial aid package (and among the remainder, all LACs, my parents would rather I attend nearby Swarthmore than any others).</p>
<p>concur with hmom. Unless you have a hook, there is no negotiating at the Swat level. If your tax return is relative simple (single income W2’s and little investments), the efc calculators do a pretty good job of estimating your contribution. Applying ED to a no-loan, meets 100%-of-need-school can be win-win. But, if your tax return is NOT simple, i.e., paper losses on a small business, then the efc calculator is only a guess.</p>
<p>Opposing voice here…I do not believe there is THAT significant an edge applying ED. In other words, you still MUST be a competitive applicant for Swat in the ED round (and Yale and Amherst and the others you list). If you are hoping that applying ED will give you a “little boost” with an acceptance that you might not have applying RD, then personally, I think you are barking up the wrong tree.</p>
<p>If finances are a consideration AT ALL, I would suggest you NOT apply ED. If you and your parents are prepared to pay the costs calculated BY THE COLLEGE, then go for it. Remember, these private schools do not use the FAFSA EFC to calculate financial aid. They use their own institutional methodology. They require the submission of the Profile which asks many more questions about family finances. The Profile does NOT spit out an EFC. The school calculates the need based aid based on the info, and the rest is up to your family to pay. If a school has it’s own financial aid calculator, or they are willing to provide a guestimate for you, then you are in better shape than if you are using a generic EFC calculator.</p>
<p>AND remember…that finaid calculator is ONLY as good as the information you put into it. Be accurate. Use very accurate estimates of income and assets. You will be doing an estimated Profile for these schools probably in October or early November so make sure your parents (and you) are keeping excellent records of income (so you can do excellent estimates).</p>
<p>And remember too…your financial aid award will be an estimate based on the estimates you put on these forms. You (like any other student) will be required to update the FAFSA and Profile to reflect the SAME information that appears on your 2009 tax return. If there is a significant increase in income (for example), your award “could” change when the final award is made. </p>
<p>I’m sorry…but unless you are willing to pay the calculated costs to Swat for an ED acceptance…apply RD.</p>
<p>How can anyone know whether s/he would get in RD but not ED–i.e. whether ED helps at all? I am statistically qualified for the top schools, and I think I have a strong overall profile (ECs, essays, recs). But lots of qualified people are rejected from Swat every year, and many of them demonstrated interest as well–they just happened not to fulfill an institutional need that year. ED, IMO, constitutes an institutional need for students who really love a school and are committed to attending (which helps control for variance in stats, enrollment, FA).</p>
<p>I certainly will not apply ED to Swat unless I think I can afford to attend–but unlike its two direct competitors, Amherst and Williams, Swat does not offer any institution-sponsored method of calculating estimated costs.</p>
<p>It depends on the school of course, but I think the boost that comes with ED is not insignificant. I have no way to measure this, but anecdotally, I know among my kids’ friends, the ones that have gotten into very selective schools have most applied under some kind of early app --ED or EA, but mostly ED.</p>
<p>In two ED cases (Northwestern and Carleton) the parents had to seek more financial aid than they were originally awarded, and in both cases they got it. One had to get a non-custodial parent’s income waived, the other had some special expenses that needed to be factored in.</p>
<p>But, you do need to go into it with eyes open, finances clear, accurate estimates, etc. I think the boost it offers may be small, but still very real.</p>
<p>You are taking a risk when you apply ED and you need a certain amount of financial aid. If you want to take that risk, go right on ahead. I do know kids who applied to a number of like schools and got very different packages. I do know some who were able to get their packages re evaluated when a like school offered them more and it came right down to those numbers. If you don’t have any comparison, you really have no idea whether you are the one with unrealistic financial aid expectations, as many applicants have, or whether a particular school is being a bit skimpy.</p>
<p>I disagree. The boost from ED can be huge (several points for Dartmouth and Brown, 10 points for Duke) for unhooked candidates. But by definition, hooked candidates don’t need ED.</p>
<p>Not true that hook candidates don’t need ED. At many schools if not most legacies loose much of their advantage if they don’t apply ED. Recruited athletes often must to get the coach’s support.</p>
<p>Dartmouth’s Dir of Admissions is on record saying ED is not a boost for the unhooked.</p>
<p>Ooops, I forgot about legacies. Yes indeed, if they don’t apply ED they lose the legacy boost (altho that’s not a true hook in my way of thinking).</p>
<p>Like most, Dartmouth’s new Admissions director speaks the politically correct way. The simple fact is that ED is a boost for unhooked candidates at every other college, so it HAS to be at Dartmouth too.</p>
<p>Look, I’m not saying that ED will get an unqualified applicant in, but it can make a huge difference between acceptance and the RD wait list.</p>