If cold winters not his thing NW should go off list. I loved the years I lived in Chicago, but the winters can be hard and long. I like cold weather enough that Boston down the Eastern States, , most of PA are just fine for me but mid Atlantic winters are my comfort point. Plenty of great schools like Wash U, Emory, Vanderbilt, Hopkins etc that have milder winters.
I think ED Rice would confer the greatest advantage but once an app from the East Coast is in RD status, without great demonstrated interest, it becomes difficult to get accepted. Too many kids use Rice SS a back up name school, really preferring any the East coast colleges. Going to Texas is a bit of a hurdle when it comes down to making that decision if other choices there. And Rice is well aware of this. I’ve known some kids denied or WL from Rice RD that got into other top schools.
My older kid looked at Rice (we’re in Texas) and loved it, but ultimately chose to get out of state. We know lots of kids who went to Rice, and they are top students and a diverse group. Every one had a great experience. My company recruits at Rice, and we’ve interviewed quite a few students from the northeast, west coast and midwest. Houston is a fun, vibrant and affordable city for a college student. I’m also quite familiar with Duke and I would say it is a mixed bag. Most students are happy, it’s an intense place, and I’ve run into more folks professionally that think there is a little more of an attitude that some of the Duke grads have as new hires. No doubt it is an excellent school. Northwestern- well, it’s a Big Ten school and it’s cold up there.
Don’t know if you all have looked at Davidson, but if he is looking for warmer weather it might fit the bill. It is up there with Duke academically, but is not quite as well known. It’s small, more liberal arts, but rigorous academically. Close to Charlotte for the big city excursions.
We toured Davidson. We all felt it was like an Amherst or Williams if the south. Fabulous facilities, but very very small…like around 2000 students total.
Rice, Duke and NU are much larger universities. While I really love Davidson, I’m not sure this is what this kid is looking for.
Agree that if Cornell is off the list because of weather, NU probably should be off the list as well.
@DCCAWAMIIAIL - thanks for sharing your daughter’s experience. Wonderful to hear she’s been happy and I too have been very impressed by their COVID response.
@jym626 - I didn’t know about the expansion that happened under Lebron’s leadership. Thank you for this background information.
@cptofthehouse - while cold winters are not his thing, he’s spent his whole life in New England and could probably deal with four more years of them, it just wouldn’t be his first choice.
@HighTide2020 - my H is concerned that the Rice “name” will only take him so far outside of TX - there’s such a strong NE/Ivy bias up here which I admit should change. Also, TX feels like another country to us - again, we have lived a sheltered, liberal life up here. S loved the idea of Houston and all that a major city offers including a pro football stadium accessible by the train!
@Sweetgum@cptofthehouse and @thumper1 - Davidson was on his list and dropped off because of too many requirements. But maybe he should reconsider even though it’s a little smaller (one of his favorite teachers is a Davidson grad). Thanks for bringing it back to my attention!
Don’t worry too much about where the undergraduate population at T20/30 universities is coming from, as it’s largely a factor of geographic preference. ~1/2 of Rice is from Texas, ~1/2 of USC is from California, ~1/2 of the Ivies are from the East Coast (ex: there are more students from New England, not including NY, than the entire West Coast at Brown) etc. If your kid’s interested in a T20 and is able to back up his choice, apply and hope for the best!
OP isn’t comparing Duke to Carolina, though. Most of the other top private universities like Northwestern have student body profiles more similar to Duke than to Carolina.
Students from the top 1% of income
19% Duke
14% Northwestern
6% UNC Chapel Hill
Students from the top 5%
44% Duke
41% Northwestern
27% UNC Chapel Hill
Students from the top 10%
56% Duke
53% Northwestern
43% UNC Chapel Hill
Students from the top 20%
69% Duke
66% Northwestern
60% UNC Chapel Hill
Students from the bottom 60%
20.7% UNC Chapel Hill
16.8% Northwestern
16.5% Duke
Median family income
$186,700 Duke
$171,200 Northwestern
$135,100 UNC Chapel Hill
Campus Culture does not necessarily adhere strictly to the numbers.
Just noticed that the Wall Street Journal Ranking of US Colleges came out almost a month ago on September 18, 2020.
Rankings are based on four categories one of which is “engagement rank”. The WSJ ranks the top 500 colleges & universities in the US. Rice, Duke, and Northwestern tied at #48 for “engagement rank”.
Duke (tied with Harvard & Brown) finished at #2 for “outcomes rank”, while Northwestern ranked #11 in a tie with Johns Hopkins University. (Northwestern’s outcomes rank is adversely affected by the theater/communications students whose starting pay is much lower than engineers, management consultants, and investment bankers among other professions.) Rice’s “outcomes rank” was at #24 in a tie with USC.
“Resources Rank” = based on academic spending, student-faculty ratios, and research output favors Rice & Northwestern which are both tied at #7 among the 500 colleges & universities ranked by the WSJ. Duke finished at #14.
Sure! Wash U falls closer to the Duke/Northwestern end of the spectrum (but is wealthier than either), whereas Rice more closely resembles top public universities like UNC Chapel Hill and Michigan.
WUStL
Top 1%: 22%
Top 5%: 57%
Top 10%: 71%
Top 20%: 84%
Bottom 60%: 6.1%
Median income: $272,000
Rice
Top 1%: 9.8%
Top 5%: 35%
Top 10%: 50%
Top 20%: 64%
Bottom 60%: 19.9%
Median income: $160,800
And that’s why Rice will continue to give preference to students from NE, expansion or no expansion. When we friend’s son was applying to colleges, it was after Rice’s expansion period.
@warblersrule - thank you so much for compiling the data on these three schools as it’s so interest to see how they overlap and diverge. I really appreciate it!
@Publisher - I appreciate you bringing these rankings to my attention. And good point to acknowledge that the diversity of programs at NW affects the outcomes.
@oldfort - his counselor thinks he has a good shot at Rice in RD due to preference for NE kids since there are so few applying and perhaps even fewer this year as they’ve seen kids wanting to stay closer to home due to the pandemic.
Last night my S says he’s leaning toward NW for his ED but had no concrete reasons why. He plans to make his pros and cons list this weekend and maybe that will help. Today’s cold weather in NE would motivate me to go south!
@dogmomof2 Interesting to see all of the opinions here about using ED strategically vs. using ED at your absolute favorite only. You know your son best - if he is unlikely to have regrets, then a strategic ED makes sense. If not, maybe rethink.
I have not checked ED stats at these places but I will offer an anecdote. A few years ago, I remember a friend of the family agonizing over ED to Northwestern. At the time the difference between ED and RD was very substantial - something along the lines of 35% + acceptance rate ED vs. single digit RD. While there are hooked applicants in the ED pool for every school like children of faculty or recruited athletes, that’s a big difference! (I don’t know if that gap still prevails today). I have heard that the ED/RD gap at Duke is meaningful and I don’t know for Rice. But it might be worth researching those figures for the last year or two at all three options to see just how much that ED matters for admission and if it’s sufficient to risk it.
FWIW, from how you describe your kid, I’d guess a rank order of Rice, NU, Duke for fit (excluding winter weather!) That said, they are all great schools, each with a preprofessional vibe, hardworking, motivated students, and great post-graduation outcomes. Good luck!
@mamaedefamilia - thanks for your thoughtful response. I think he is unlikely to have regrets but he continues to surprise me.
The ED stats are definitely in his favor, and as I may have already written, his GC says that kids are leaning more toward staying closer to home, which I extrapolate that maybe it will be slightly more advantageous for him applying to colleges that all require a plane flight.
Rice is definitely my favorite but it’s not my choice! NU is just so cold!
NU is cold in the winter…and windy. But Chicagoland is a fabulous area. Evanston isn’t all that far from down town but I’m not sure what the advantage of that is during Covid time.
At NU, he will get to see four beautiful seasons. At Rice, one will be missing.
One of our kids went 3000 miles away to college. We felt college was a great time to go to a different part of the country and experience something different than home.
Does Covid planning/response factor into your decision at all? If so, NU pivoted at the very last minute and decided to not have freshmen and sophomores on campus the same week they were suppose to arrive. My niece’s friend found out while she was at her goodbye family dinner that she wasn’t allowed on campus. We watched families move back out kids they had just moved in at the sorority houses. Upperclassmen who were allowed back have all their classes on line. IMO, not a great response/plan.
In terms of weather, I don’t think Evanston winters are bad at all. The lake has a moderating effect on temperatures. It can get windy but usually the sun is out.
FWIW, notwithstanding the school-year temperatures, I wouldn’t say that either St. Louis or Houston have good weather, particularly. Hope that he doesn’t stay over a summer. The heat and humidity are significant.
