<p>Harsh lesson to future students and parents on this board: DO NOT APPLY ED UNLESS YOU CAN AFFORD FULL FREIGHT.</p>
<p>Unfair? Maybe, but I went through that with my son, and the decision had to be made NOT to do ED to any school.</p>
<p>Every year, this same post (with different posters) appears.</p>
<p>Dreamer: please post a few more specifics if you'd like some assistance. According to Penn's web site, they meet "100% of demonstrated financial need." Moreover, they clearly indicate that finaid packages include loans and work study. </p>
<p>In an earlier thread, you mentioned that parental income ~$50k. In post #20, you mention a fafsa efc of zero....assuming your Profile efc is not zero, the ED college has determined that parental assets can be used for college expenses. Thus, what part of your need was not met by ED school? What was "not as expected..."? Was it a majority of loans?</p>
<p>btw: by now you must know that fafsa (used by UMich) excludes assets like home equity, whereas the Profile, used by most private colleges includes assets that fafsa does not....</p>
<p>dreaming,</p>
<p>It sounds as if you either received poor advice from your GC on how to deal with ED and EA or decided to ignore the advice. My advice is to consult with you GC and then come clean with Wharton. Tell them that you cannot attend due to the finaid you've been offered. If they can't provide the level of aid you need, then you have to choose--withdraw or stay. If the latter, you'll most like be out your deposit minimum. I don't know if there will be any other ramifications. They may ask about your college plans, in which case, I would strongly recommend that you tell the truth. But if, as implied in other posts, you did not abide by Penn's ED rules, then you'll have to live with that.</p>
<p>I still don't understand.... need specifics --- Please answer by the number </p>
<ol>
<li><p>How much FA did UPenn offer and what did they consider your EFC to be?</p></li>
<li><p>Did UPenn meet 100% of need (Total costs - EFC = FA need )</p></li>
<li><p>How much did your FA did your EA offer and what did they consider your EFC to be?</p></li>
<li><p>What is your family's income?</p></li>
<li><p>Are you expecting to receive 0 dollars from your family? If not, how much?</p></li>
<li><p>By any chance, did your EFC go up at UPenn because they considered the income of a non-custodial parent?</p></li>
<li><p>Do your parents have a lot of assets (property, savings, stock, investments? If so, is that why FA was not what you expected.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Again, please answer by the numbers (copy/paste questions) so we all can "be on the same page" in regards to info.</p>
<p>Dreaming Melancholy.... please answer the above questions.</p>
<p>I frankly am amazed that this does not happen more often than it does.</p>
<p>My D did not apply ED anywhere, mainly because her top choice school (Illinois Wesleyan) for many years had an admissions director, Jerry Pope, who understood that ED is a perverse system that everyone hates but which most schools cling to for fear of losing a competitive advantage. As a result, there is no ED at Illinois Wesleyan. </p>
<p>I have sympathy for Melancholy Dreamer. S/he is obviously a very bright student from a family with limited resources. I can understand the lure of ED, especially given the tantalizing promise that the financial aid package would meet his/her need. Clearly, Dreamer or her Guidance Counselor should have pulled the plug on her other applications but since they did not, I think Wharton will survive Dreamer's decision to choose a school which her family can actually afford.</p>
<p>I have two more Ds in the college pipeline and I may well encourage one or both of them to apply ED to improve their chances of gaining admission to their dream schools--and we will play by the rules.</p>
<p>However, if ED were banned tomorrow we would all be better off. It is a badly flawed system that only helps the upper echelon schools inflate their yield numbers so they can move up in the U.S. News rankings. Our kids would be much better off applying to schools from a level playing field and making their final decisions after having most of their senior year to reflect on their choices with the benefit of complete and final financial information.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <blockquote> <blockquote> <p>However, if ED were banned tomorrow we would all be better off. It is a badly flawed system that only helps the upper echelon schools <<<<</p> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>It also only helps those who are the most affluent, those who can pay "full freight" no matter what. Others have to "pass" on ED in order to be able to compare offers from other schools.</p>
<p>Op was admitted to Penn ED. After being admitted to Penn, student was admitted to Chicago which has given a better package than Penn.</p>
<p>The same talk is given year after year, if you need to compare packages, if you are not pretty much willing to live and die by the FA package you are given (barring and unforseen changes in your FA situation which the school will revisit) then one should not apply ED.</p>
<p>Applying ED you are basically saying in exchange for an Early Evaluation and subsequent admission I will attend your school and with draw my other aplications. </p>
<p>At the end of the day these are tough decisions that a family needs to sit down and make. many families are less than thrilled with the months and months of waiting but we do it because we don't want to go blindly into a financial situation unless we we really have no qualms with the package we are given (even those who can afford full freight are not adverse to a better deal if they can get one ).</p>
<p>At many schools GC's are constantly working to build relationships with colleges (which is probably a contributor to why school A sends 10 kids each year and school B sends 2 with all other things being equal). </p>
<p>For the GC it comes back as ding on thier integrity (they did not do a good job of explaining the process, they knew or should have known a student was admitted ED and aided the student in getting around the process, by sending out more stuff or not making sure that the other apps did get withdrawn). It also sends a message why take this student because schools ultimately want students who want them. At the end of the day, admissions committees are made up of people and some people have long memories.</p>
<p>Call Penn and tell them that you cannot come. Tell them you have a better offer from UC but will be going to U of Mich--because UC will withdraw the offer if you reject UPenn without their premission.</p>
<p>These disappointments can seem enormous, but they have their purpose in a life. If you don't end up at Penn, your life will take another path. My bet is that you will discover that you love your alternate path. </p>
<p>Life is what you make of it. It is all in your hands.</p>
<p>If Melancholy Dreamer forgoes Penn for Chicago, the GC may be tainted and other applicants from that High School may be disadvantaged. </p>
<p>Hoepfully, the effect would be limited to Penn. Even then, the effect should be for the Adcom in the future to get some assurance from that particular GC that the other applications have in fact been withdrawn. In addition, individual applicants from that school will still be free to demonstrate their intererst and commitment to Penn in myriad convincing ways.</p>
<p>I understand that the GC is probably way overworked, but s/he ought to have a tickler system for following up on kids who have applied ED. Its no secret when the ED decisions for each school are rendered. I believe that is the reason the GC is required to sign the ED application.</p>
<p>Also, not that all students should not receive equal attention form the GC, but if I were the GC I would have been curious to track the success rate of a kid with the credentials to get admitted to Penn, Chicago and Michigan (with a full ride). I blame the GC for letting this happen, although it appears it may have been to the benefit of the student. Perhaps this is a case of benign neglect. If so, it is further evidence that this system stinks.</p>
<p>In any case, my advice to Melancholy is to go to Penn if there is any way to afford it and if not, go elsewhere.</p>
<p>If Penn offered an appropriate package based upon the financial guidelines and norms, I would assume that you would need to abide by that package. If it is truly less than calculated aid and you cannot afford to attend, perhaps you should attend your state university. If Penn perceives that your claim is less than straight forward, they have the right to contact other top private universities that you reneged on an ED admission.</p>
<p>If 2 schools calulate your EFC similarly and one offers a higher percentage of loans than grants, both are meeting your financial need. ED candidates should not have the luxury of comparing offers. </p>
<p>If your claim is totally legit, they will most likely allow you to get out of ED with no ramifications. You should speak to your guidance counselor and be in contact with Penn.</p>
<p>jlauer:</p>
<p>
[quote]
That is unfair. Other students from his/her school are not responsible for the actions of another student.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually, the school should also notify the other schools that a student was accepted under an ED program. This would/should happen when they send the mid-year report. If they do not notify them then it appears that some schools will question whether they can trust the school's commitment to ED and thus "punish" future students.</p>
<p>I just think that ED is a very bad policy. I know others disagree with me on this but I am okay with that.</p>
<p>OP should definitely contact Penn again as s/he may benefit from their new FA policy (does it kick in this year?)</p>
<p>OP now has Hopkins as first choice.....hmmmmmmm. </p>
<p>Isn't it possible that Hopkins will rescind its acceptance?</p>
<p>in that link to the post...i was quoting someone else who is going to jhu...i was asking where she got the number to call. i did not apply to jhu</p>
<p>i have scheduled an appointment to talk to my regional adcon...thanks for those who gave advice.</p>
<p>Best of luck Melancholy Dreamer. I hope you find success and happiness in whatever you choose to do.</p>
<p>So, let me get this straight. You have financial aid packages from all of the schools. In order to have them, that means you not only didn't withdraw your applications from the EA and rolling schools to which you'd applied, but went ahead and applied for financial aid at them AFTER you had heard from Penn? Must be since you can't file the FAFSA until January at the earliest, and Penn decisions come out in December. So you continued to pursue other schools - rather than withdrawing your applications as you were supposed to, right? And, now you're unhappy because you've noticed that gee, other schools have offered you a different package than Penn? </p>
<p>If I were you, I would call Penn and tell them exactly what you have told us. I am sure they would be more than happy to release you from your acceptance there because you have clearly violated the terms of the ED agreement and they'd probably much prefer to pull a student off their waitlist who has higher moral/ethical standards or who is at least smart enough to read the pretty easy to understand ED rules.</p>
<p>Of course, that assumes that Penn hasn't compared its list of ED acceptances with some of the other schools you have completed applications and financial aid with --- in that case, you may very well stand to have those acceptances rescinded as well.</p>
<p>I know some may think I'm being harsh, but I don't have a lot of patience of sympathy with someone who has tried to play the system and then is complaining about not having the system work for them. You thought you'd be able to game the system and it didn't work out. Period. So, now you might as well fess up and do things the way they should have been done to begin with:</p>
<p>Honestly.</p>
<p>Carolyn is being more than harsh. I would prefer to give an inexperienced first generation immigrant child the benefit of the doubt before making accusations about gaming the system. Blame the GC if you want to assign blame. </p>
<p>It would be a shame for this obviously gifted youngster to be denied admission everywhere for essentially making a mistake.</p>
<p>Even if his/her actions were part of a calculated though ill-conceived plan, it amounts to no more than an attempt to take advantage of a horribly flawed system. The only one hurt in the long run may well be Dreamer.</p>
<p>melancholy writes:</p>
<p><<<<< its financially impossible for my family's current income to go to penn, as penn's efc is almost 40% of our gross income. >>>></p>
<p>how can your EFC be 40% of your family's gross income unless you have a lot of personal savings which they expect you to use or your parents have a lot of savings/investments. Which is it???</p>