<p>I say if your parents say they will pay, then pay. Youre lucky you got accepted.</p>
<p>“The opportunity to opt out of a ED acceptance is of no benefit to a student who needs to maximize an FA award.”</p>
<p>Students seeking to “maximize” FA should not apply ED.</p>
<p>“It’s just a dumb choice for a student looking for significant assistance.”</p>
<p>Not at all; a student with a clear number one choice above all others, who gets enough “significant” assistance to enable attendance, is likely delighted with the result.</p>
<p>There is the up side and down side to ED. IMO, those who need the money have a down side that can cause more long term stress and harm both the student and family than is worthwhile in getting into a highly rated college. In this country, there are so many excellent choices out there. It’s not a one chance out of the pit sort of thing. By applying ED, it puts the applicant and all those invested in the process, in a psychological state that makes it appear as such. Make no mistake about the tremendous momentum that the ED process produces, so that it is terribly difficult to make that decision to pass on a financial aid package that really is not one a family should take. Do note that the very top schools, the ones that I would probably say are exceptions to my “rule”, HPYSM, do not even participate in this sort of thing.</p>
<p>I really agree with everyone that says really look into your package.
I had a similar situation with Yale, except it’d non-binding and I recieved no aid what so ever. The more I looked into it, the more the price dropped. The actual billed attendance for me was four grand lower than the quoted. Plus work study. Plus other fees that can be waived (I.e. at Yale, 2,040 in fees are waived if you can prove you have health insurance because then you are excluded from the insurance cost.)</p>
<p>Before you make any decisions, make sure you have that physical mailer in your hand. I had a break down in school one day when I started thinking about my aid. Now that I have the mailer in my hand, my cost is about 10k lower than I thought - 40k lower over four years.</p>
<p>It’s okay! Make sure you figure it out clearly. Make sure you think of your major and your outlook and how much your job may pay in the future. If the potential is good, the education might be worth it. Might.</p>
<p>"How do you qualify for Pell with a $80k income? That seems unusual. "</p>
<p>I don’t think the OP does qualify for PELL, Swimcatsmom. For ED, an estimated PROFILE using the prior year’s info with extrapolation is used, so the questions would be geared for the current school year, not the upcoming one The OP has not completed FAFSA yet, since the form isn’t even available for the 2014-15 school year. So, my bet is that the form indicated that there are two in college, for the EFC estimator that schools just auto use to see what federal/state entitlements come out. There is a sibling in college for the current year, so the EFC would be half. But when more careful estimates were done to calculate the instituional required contribution, Penn noted that there would only be one student in college, which is why the numbers are as high as they are. It would not change Penn’s required contribution, and my guess is that Penn will make up the deficit caused by ineligiblity for PELL. </p>
<p>The figures are estimates only, since for ED, end of the year figures are not yet available. IT’s another problem with ED because the estimator is only as accurate as what the actual figures end up being and when you follow directions for that estimated PROFILE, there can be discrepancies. This is one I"ve seen a few times. The final package will be based on actualy 2013 income figures. </p>
<p>Ellacherie, you can “beat” some of the numbers, but you are often stuck for more on some of them too, as they are averages. My son’s transportation costs, for example, were very high, higher than the average as most kids at his school came from a three state, within a three hour radius. He was just about cross country and there were no direct flights from our place to where his school was located. Had to buy a lot of things there and it was a new, unknown area to us with a time constraint when we moved him in, as we could not simply load up the car. He broke his nose and then had a medical concern that necessitated an immediate trip home which put a thousand dollar dent in the budget right there. Insurance isn’t in that Penn figure, and if your family insurance does not meet their standards, you gotta buy student insurance. You get the room you are assigned to, and freshman year, there are room and board requirements. OP can request the cheapest room there is but some schools have one price. I have a friend who did not commit to a room till late, and was left only with upper class housing choices which were much pricier as they were all single room suites at that college. There was no negotiating this–they tried. $2K right there. </p>
<p>I think CRD is giving the best and most succint advice here. I think Penn will work with you. You may not get the price down to where you had hoped, but I think there will be some movement. You also have $5500 in Direct Loans you can take out and hopefully you can work this summer to meet your personal college contribution, and maybe a little bit more. If Penn can come up with say $5K more, it may be doable.</p>
<p>The problem though with schools is that a $5K overage even is really $20K+ over 5 years, but most parents, kids, families are hard put not to back out of ED. Everyone really wants it to work out.</p>
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<p>Absolutely. It worked well for our family. Attending one of the Ancient Eight with need-based aid was cheaper than our instate flagship. But yes, (perhaps) we forgo the opportunity to “maximize” financial aid. (I say perhaps because most schools are not as generous with need-based aid. But to be fair, one of the lower UCs did offer a Regents++++.)</p>
<p>Even with two in college, it is strange that the family would qualify for that much Pell (estimate). The EFC for one child should be about $14k…divided by 2 would be $7k…beyond Pell. So, the inclusion seems odd.</p>
<p>That said, the family will only have ONE in college next year since the brother is graduating and going to med school…and will likely be funding THAT with student loans (not parents providing more than 50% of his expenses). Plus, the family SIZE will go down by one person in the household…another thing that needs to be corrected.</p>
<p>Either Penn has made a huge mistake (which can happen) or there’s some reason that the family’s contribution is that high. Did the family make a retirement acct withdrawal. Did the family neglect to include something on the brother’s Profile which caused his to be much lower? </p>
<p>The family should print out the brother’s Profile from last year and compare it to this student’s Profile that was submitted to UPenn…and see what’s different.</p>
<p>Could the OP have just been wrong about the parents income? I notice a lot of threads here are fuzzy on actual numbers from the OP – they say things like, “my parents make between 150-250K a year” or something kind of vague like that.</p>
<p>“That’s why I don’t advise ED for those who need fin aid.”</p>
<p>Some schools are trying to dispel the idea the ED is only for the well-to-do.</p>
<p>Yes, some schools are as well as some people. ED is available for all. However, those who need financial aid, for whom price is a big issue, could be losing out more than they are gaining with an ED acceptance. Even if they are happy with the package at the time they get it, it could well be more than they have to have paid, and for some families that several thousand (and often more as our own board members can tell us) a year can cause financial problems and issues.</p>
<p>The problem is the same as it is for anything when those who don’t understand this thoroughly start taking generalized advice that does not personally fit. As I 've posted before, there are certainly cases where ED is a great idea. There are also times when it works out beautifully and all is good But in my mind, when the down side risks and stresses are worse than the upsides, it isn’t a good thing. </p>
<p>It’s no great tragedy to get into a school other than ones first choice (especially when it’s a hastily chosen first choice that may not really be a first choice). That rush and push to get into a school a little better than what you could maybe get into isn’t worth it, in my opinion. For those who have financial concerns, it often means taking that deep breath and accepting a package you would not have if there were other choices on the table. Few parents who get this far can look into those puppy dog eyes so hopeful with the ED offer and say, “no, gotta start over. Can’t afford.” Nope. you swalow and take it unless the offer is so unaffordable, and yes, some try to make a go of it even then. Usually the kids who go ED are the kind that are going to have a number of choices anyway. </p>
<p>Schools LOVE ED. The rate of those who back out of it is very, very small. THey love high yield, never mind the rankings; it allows them to have a firm base on which to build the class and takes out the uncertainty to a large degree, as to who is going to show up for the party. I would love a solid commitment like ED for any venue I plan. Otherwise you never know who’s going to show up. With a 90-99% matriculation rate of the ED group, absolutely, schools want a good core group of ED kids. Even Harvard with its great yield, and who does not have to go ED, but can get a 50% increase in yield with SCEA loves this early business. And when it comes to financial aid, they don’t get as many people cut bait even if the aid isn’t what they want. Too much momentum, emotion and stress to do this right before Christmas. I mean, heck, it’s a week before Christmas when these accepts came out, a lot of the school offices are closes, who wants the pall of having to maybe tell the kid that ED isn’t going to work, and tthose other apps have to go out. Better to do the toasts for a college process well done and truly done. Who wants all that for two long weeks and start the new year off that way. Uh uhn, no. You try to come up with the money and hope it works out with a smile on your face. And no, you don’t HAVE to do this. You can back out. You sure can. But it’s gonna hurt to do so, and hurt that kid of yours too.</p>
<p>Does anyone have data on the average percentage of ED FA applicants who accept (or decline) schools’ (not just UPenn) FA offers?</p>
<p>Vonlost, I’ve not seen the data broken down that way, but I’ve seen numbers for ED yield at various schools and they are very high. Which is why the schools love ED. It would also be interesting to get breakdowns on what % of the ED pool apply for aid, qualify for need, get need and the breakdowns and see how they compare with RD, in terms of merit awards as well as financial aid.</p>
<p>I’ve asked a few schools and was told that these breakdowns are not made and noted. Because the aid packages are estimates only based on estimated PROFILE numbers, the final figures often differ and when the true packages are calculated the stats are just merged with the RD group.</p>
<p>I haven’t either; it would shed some more light on the subject. If the Net Price Calculator is an improvement over the past, giving better estimates, and then, e.g., 95% of ED FA admits can accept the offer, there’s a lot more joy than disappointment (but if less than 50% can accept, that’s a different story). E.g., should ED be avoided because there’s a 5% chance of disappointment, and give up on the 95% chance of having a relaxed senior year? (Use any numbers.) This is ignoring the possible increase in ED acceptance chance over RD that would have to be abandoned.</p>
<p>I can imagine that the disappointment of not getting into the by-far first choice could be better handled at ED time than at RD time; at ED time there’s more time to recover (including winter break) before the RD acceptances roll in, months to develop a new first choice with a clearer head. Yes, just imagining here, thinking out loud.</p>
<p>Remember ED is strongly skewed toward athletes, legacies, full pay students etc. so I highly doubt the ED rate would be close to 50% and suspect the rate is, in fact, very high.</p>
<p>The problem with ED is that often the parents will go with it even if the financial aid package is not what was expected and sometimes not affordable. Of course, this happens in RD as well, but with ED you get the parent who finds himself in a tight spot with the ED dream coming true for the kid, and the prospect of backing out just not looking good at all. If the same offer were on the table with other packages, it is possible that the decision would be a different one. </p>
<p>An acquaintance of ours was pretty much in this situation, and he might have stayed in it, even told me that he was in the "Stuck with the ED package"Club with a number of other parents . until his daughter got an acceptance from State U honors with a hefty merit award, along with a number of other classmates and friends. Though she had notified the schools of her ED acceptance, some schools do not acknowedge the info, and this large state school was one of them. She suddenly said she would rather go there. The cost differential was enormous, and my friend was getting chastized by his accountant who was working on his taxes and who found out about the upcoming financial obligation for college. He and his DD did get out of the commitment after a whole lot of trouble, deservedly so as they were breaking their contract in doing so. </p>
<p>Anecdotal, but an example of how something so important in the fall, changes by spring. </p>
<p>As for the disappointment if rejected, I don’t even take that into much consideration at all. An ED rejection can be a wake up call to adjust that college list and consider some other schools. My son got a good read on where he could get accepted by the results of his three EA apps. He was accepted to three schools and deferred at one. That left only reaches and merit opportunities for his RD apps as he had good choices in his pocket by the end of the early season. Deferral of ED/EA apps, give a student a second chance to look over and spruce up the paper work and also send any additional info to the deferred school. </p>
<p>On a personal basis, I would use ED/EA and have for the benefit of my children and myself. However, I am well aware that the system itself is unfair for those who do not have the benefit of an experienced adult pushing this along. THis is the case for such children in many situations anyways, but it’s yet another privilige that those already so blessed have. As a group, those who use ED and EA tend to be those from informed households with involved parents, and with resources. And in getting this extra edge, it leaves fewer seats for more applicants in the RD round. So who benefits? Those students already getting a leg up (often legacies, athletes, kids of privilege) and, of course the colleges themselves. All at the cost of those who do not have as much.</p>
<p>Momofthreeboys, I have seen ED yield rates and they are very high, in the upper 90s. I can’t remember where I saw them. The common data sets do not break this down. ED is a highly effective tool for the colleges. </p>
<p>I had my one son change a RD app to EA for a college one year, when I saw the accept figures for that schools EA and that of RD. The differential was significant. And this was EA where the yield is not as anywhere nearly has high as ED since kids are not contractually required to attend upon acceptance. I did talk to the Admiissons officers who told me their EA yield was quite high, significantly more than RD,</p>
<p>Also, when it comes to athletes, they can get special acceptances that are neither ED, EA or RD in timing. I know a number of them who were accepted after the early acceptances of other students, yet well before the school’s RD. They can go rolling in many cases. My one son was a recruited athlete, and though some schools did require that he go through the same admissions channels, a number of schools did not.</p>
<p>What is perplexing to me…the brother who is upon undergrad this year, is paying about $17,000. If the family finances have NOT significantly changed, it would seem that this student would,have at least similar aid. Of course the formulas vary even amongst ivy league schools…but I completely understand why this student is flummoxed. </p>
<p>So OP, have your family finances changed?</p>
<p>I don’t think Penn and other colleges use ED to charge more. FA awards are calculated every year. After the first year both ED and RD students are charged the same way and I don’t believe the FA offices keep records of ED and RD students throughout 4 years in order to provide FA awards to 2 separate groups.</p>
<p>Coolweather, from what I have been told by those in the field, is that financial aid for EDs are done as fairly and generously as the school will ordinarily do. No games played, though after some revelations have come to light where it was clear that some Financial AId and Admissions at schools like George Washington were bold faced outright lying in what they said in writing and verbally, still saying it was true while admitting it was not, all in the same sentence! However, unless one believes the whole thing is one big scam, one has to believe in the general integrity of the system, and my experience has been that those working in those offices do have integrity. Yes, I make snide remarks here and there about individual situations, but overall, what these people say, is how it is. With issues that arise in any situation anywhere.</p>
<p>From what I saw, ED at the selective schools has a near 100% yield, and it behooves the schools to have that situation be that way. So, they will want to make it work for ED. CMU which is a school that is not generous in their fin aid (and honest as well as outspoken, clear, which I highly respect) out and out says that ED acceptees get full need met. RD acceptees do not get that guarantee and many do not get full need met. Just because they are first in line in terms of their packages, ED packages will likely get more of the goodies. </p>
<p>As for future years, absolutely, the ED kids are just merged with the RD ones. In fact once the whole app year is over, it’s all one big family. However, financial aid renewals are heavily based on what the prior year’s package was, so it can have affect on what the future aid is, especially at schools that do not guarantee to meet full need. A CMU student accepted ED will get full need met by their defiintion wheras a RD acceptee may not, and that could continue for future years, as that first year package ususally is renewable as long as there are no substantial changes in financial situation. I’ve heard the question asked many times at college info sessions, and most schools will keep the packages pretty much the same as the first year offerings, with the exception of change in financial situation and built in increase of student taking on more of the cost, which usually by formula. So, yes, in a sense, FA offices keep track of what the prior year award was for EVERY student and award in the new year accordingly,but they do not tend to split them into RD and ED groups. No reason to do so.</p>
<p>I agree with Thumper1. If the family was paying $17000 at Northwestern I would not expect UPenn to be more. I would certainly want to compare the Profiles done for both schools. Having used the NPC for these two schools in the past it appeared that UPenn was significantly MORE generous than NU but that may differ with different income ranges.</p>
<p>If Penn accepted you ED then they really want you there so I would think the FA office will work with you and your parents to get this straightened out. That is unless the profile was wrong for NU and your parents were underpaying there.</p>