<p>among my list of considering colleges penn stands out (i want to go to wharton) but not by a mile. from what i heard applying to penn by ED gives you a double better chance in admission. </p>
<p>i have a friend who's currently in princeton. he was accepted to all of the schools he applied to (including harvard, princeton etc.) besides upenn.</p>
<p>just wanting some feedback if applying ED is the wise choice or not.</p>
<p>thanks!</p>
<p>Despite what the numbers say, it’s not twice as easy to get in ED. (Such a concept cannot be quantified.)</p>
<p>Simply: if UPenn is your number one choice and you think it will stay that way, apply ED. This is assuming all your scores are in order and you aren’t anticipating a grade increase.</p>
<p>If you apply early decision, you need to say with absolute certainty that if you got into Penn as well as some other school that you also liked, you would choose Penn. If you have even the slightest doubts, then don’t apply ED. Penn isn’t for everyone and can make people miserable if they’re not ready for it. That said, early application increases your chances, as roughly half of the admitted students come from the early pool. Part of why they do this is that they know those students WILL come to Penn… they are contractually bound to attend.</p>
<p>Basically, in order to apply ED, you have to realize that penn has the best environment with the most opportunities possible. You have to accept the fact that these four years are hard and that you’ll want to spend them at the best place possible, which is obviously Penn. I was stupid and wasted a ton of money applying to a bunch of places, only to recognize that Penn was the only place for me. But the choice is yours.</p>
<p>Thanks for the replies! Yeah I’m not 100% sure now whether penn really is for me… I will just feel really bad if I’m rejected in the regular pool and be thinking “darn maybe I’d be accepted in the regular pool”.</p>
<p>How would you characterize penn besides that it is a fun-loving ivy? I am not too sure whether it truly “fits” me or not.</p>
<p>Penn’s ED acceptance rate is roughly twice that of the RD acceptance rate. Some things to consider though:
<p>On top of that, people who apply ED know Penn is their #1 and tend not to need senior year to improve their profiles (stronger SAT or GPA). </p>
<p>I would suggest starting the Penn application sooner rather than later. You have until the deadline to decide whether or not you want to apply ED. If Penn is your #1 in October, go for it. If not, then nothing is lost because you were going to apply anyway. One thing I did when applying was I started applications for my top 3 schools (two ED one SCEA) and as time went on I realized Penn was my #1 and made that my ED.</p>
<p>How would I characterize Penn?</p>
<p>It’s a huge school, so that has upsides and downsides. There are quite a few people who, frankly, have their heads up their asses. Many people are arrogant and the like, which is what you should expect from a school that recruits the top students in high schools… a lot of people develop inferiority complexes once they get to Penn and realize they’re not the best, and after awhile, that can be annoying.</p>
<p>That said, Penn has extraordinary opportunities. If you have an interest, there is a group you can join! The campus is beautiful and is walking distance from Center City, Philadelphia. </p>
<p>Penn is very pre-professional, which is great for some people and terrible for others. Wharton has a big influence around campus.
People enjoy themselves but do work very hard academically, so though it’s a better party school than I anticipated, it’s not as socially awesome as, say, ASU, UMiami, etc.</p>
<p>You will find a group of friends if you try, as there are bound to be people your speed in a school of 10,000 undergrads.</p>
<p>it’s a little misleading to say that it’s huge since compared to yale, for instance, it’s not. it’s more than half the size of yale. it’s has a lot of students but it’s a closely knit community within the penn campus, which is actually quite small. i loved it, but u really need to visit and do yr research. also, there’s no way you would have gotten accepted ed if you got rejected rd.</p>
<p>Venkat89, so will you say that for normal ppl like me (not a legacy, recruited athlete or development case), the chance of getting into penn is approximately the same for ED or regular? It’s just that I might make a college visit to colleges that accepted me later on (I live in Hong Kong) - since I know that brochures and college websites do not tell the whole story.</p>
<p>Will those who went to Penn comment on the student interaction in the campus? Do international students tend to segregate (cus I’d definitely not want that)?</p>
<p>NO!<br>
ED HELPS A LOT!</p>
<p>Tell us a bit about your stats first. If you’re a strong applicant who’ll probably get into Penn RD, don’t go ED. Apply to better schools too. If not, definitely apply ED.</p>
<p>SAT I: (not that good I know, but I’m planning to retake them in Oct)
Math: 800
CR: 650
W: 690</p>
<p>SATII:
Chinese with listening: 800 (no brainer since I’m Chinese. Arghhh which makes me harder to get into Penn)
Math II: 800
Chem: 740</p>
<p>Notable achievements:
-Started a Jiangmen scholarship program (a province in China) for girls who cannot afford to go to school. So far we’ve raised enough funds for about 50 girls to go to school ($250 USD each).
-First place in ORBIS student ambassador program (we need to come up with a fundraising idea and one team representating every school - 4 per team - has to raise the most money in order to win). We’re going on a service trip to Vietnam end of this month sponsored by ORBIS. Apparently there will be two reporters following us and everything.
-Business head in Interact fashion show (the biggest charity event at our school every year - this year we raised more than $30,000 for the scholarship program mentioned above). I was apprentice for this charity club in Freshman and Sophomore year. I’m also treasurer of Interact club itself.
<p>I know that my numbers aren’t that good… but does that make me a big no-no for Penn (as you can see from my rather business-approached-with-a-service-twist activities, I want to apply for Wharton) regular decision? And what about ED :(</p>
<p>unless you’re an international gold medalist in something, you should consider making your college application pool something like an equities portfolio (combination of stocks):</p>
<p>You have a couple of safety schools that guarantee your college acceptance
You have a couple of “range” schools which should admit you and you wouldn’t mind attending
You have a couple of “reach” schools which admit erratically but you would love to attend.</p>
<p>Given your specific profile, you give weights to different categories. Strong applicants have few safeties, few ranges and lots of reaches whereas weak applicants have lots of safeties, a couple of ranges and a limited amount of reaches (why throw your money to the wind?)</p>
<p>Given this premise, you want to spend the EA period applying to good schools you wouldn’t mind attending (range) and top choices (reaches). RD will be your safeties and everything else you couldn’t fit in during the early period (restrictive EA vs. ED, etc)</p>
<p>example (mine):
EA Georgetown Business (range - accepted) <strong>my default</strong>
EA University of Maryland (safety - accepted)
EA(ish) University of Virginia (safety/range - accepted)
RD Yale (reach - rejected)
RD Princeton (reach - rejected)
RD Cornell (reach/range -waitlisted)
RD Upenn, Wharton (reach - accepted) <strong>attending</strong></p>
<p>An ED for Wharton would have messed up my EA to Georgetown (restrictive) and I would have gone high risk and un-hedged.</p>
<p>^thanks for the tip. Yeah that was what I was thinking too, in terms of the putting everything I couldn’t fit in into EAs. I am just not entirely sure that I’d like to apply to Penn, which is why I do not think ED for Penn is such a great decision for me. </p>
<p>With my stats above do you think that I have a chance with Penn Wharton RD? And as for your essays, if you do not mind sharing, were all of your essay to Penn focused on the business side?</p>
<p>ED does help for “normal” applicants. It is a great way to signal to Penn that it is your number 1 choice and that can be a huge tip factor. However, ED does not make up for weaker stats (not that your stats are weak) and is still very competitive. I would say it’s tough to tell an applicant that he will or will not get into Penn RD (though some obviously have better shots than others). If Penn is your #1 and money isn’t an issue go for ED. If either is not the case, wait till RD.</p>
<p>I honestly think that essays are the deciding factor. Your stats are more or less irrelevant if your essays are strong.</p>
<p>ALL of my essays were HEAVILY business-related. In fact, I never veered off the topic; not even for a paragraph.</p>
<p>Chrisw. What can make Penn miserable for some people? What is the difference between Penn and Yale in terms of expectations? What can make some people like Yale and don’t like Penn or don’t like Yale and like Penn? Thank you, your answers are always informative!</p>
<p>I can give you a million reasons to go to Penn and a million not to. There are positives and negatives of every school, and for me the positives far outweight the negatives. Some of the negatives that I have can be applied to more schools than just Penn. For example:
Wharton has too much influence over undergrads.
The library isn’t open more hours. There are study areas open 24 hours (or close to it) but I’d like to be able to get books later at night.
They don’t make sure that grad students can speak English at a high level before they become TAs.
You have to fill out housing forms to stay in dorms in January before most students know their situations with study abroad and fraternities.
None of the history courses I want to take fulfill the history requirement but my friends can take BS science courses to fulfill those requirements.</p>
<p>necrophiliac: I’ve heard otherwise about the essays - someone has told me before that since every Wharton applicant focuses their essays on something relating to business, they do not “stand out”. What do you think about that?</p>
<p>AABoston: Though I am not a student of either university, I agree with Venkat89 that all schools are not without faults. It really depends on how much your “fit” is with the school. First understand who you are and what you are looking for in a college, whether it is strength of a specific major or location, then narrow your list.</p>
<p>Venkat89: I’ve heard about the harsh grade curve in Penn (or is that only in Wharton?). Is it really as harsh as others have said?</p>
<p>Most courses are graded on a curve. Many courses have a relatively strict curve where As are capped (Wharton core, calc sequence, intro science, intro engineering). If you get the median grade in a Wharton core course, Math 104-241 course, or intro science course you have about a B or B- or (sometimes) a C+. </p>
<p>IMO, the Wharton core is tougher in some courses because As are capped, but the material is so easy that everyone does fairly well. My friends have shown me core courses where the averages were close to a 90% and that was a B because they cannot give out too many As. It would be fine if it was like a chem or physics course where grades are more spread out and the material is more difficult so a professor can differentiate between the top 20% of students and the average students. In my college courses that mirrored the similar Wharton ones (Finance 101 vs Econ 102) my friends in Finance 101 complained that they had to do really well to do better than the curve. My professor in Econ 102 told us that if everyone did well we all had the opportunity to get As (no arbitrary cap). That didn’t happen in Econ 102, but if our professor gave us easier tests and our averages were above 90%, we wouldn’t be punished in our grades because the test lacked difficulty.</p>
<p>it’s a little misleading to say that it’s huge since compared to yale, for instance, it’s not. it’s more than half the size of yale. it’s has a lot of students but it’s a closely knit community within the penn campus, which is actually quite small. i loved it, but u really need to visit and do yr research. also, there’s no way you would have gotten accepted ed if you got rejected rd.</p>
<p>It is actually not misleading at all to say that it’s huge. The only Ivy Leage school larger than Penn is Columbia, which has 24,000 students compared to Penn’s 20,000. In terms of undergraduates, only Cornell has more, with 13,000 compared to Penn’s 10,000. I’m not sure where you’re getting your numbers, but Penn has nearly twice as many undergraduates as Yale does. I think it is reasonable to say that any university with ten thousand undergraduates is a “huge” university, especially when they’re all on one campus.</p>
<p>Also, saying that someone would never have gotten in ED if they got rejected RD is not necessarily true based simply on math. The most recent stats are for the class of 2012; 23,000 students applied, total, of which 3,900 were accepted. For early decision, 3,900 applied at 1,150 were accepted while that same number (roughly) was deferred and 1,600 were rejected. Of the 1,150 deferred, 150 were accepted RD. Of the 2,750 who were accepted RD, 1,298 enrolled (a little under 50%).</p>
<p>For admissions percentages, ED is roughly 29%. Of the 20,273 RD applicants, 2,750, or 13.565% were accepted. </p>
<p>In other words, if you are a student who doesn’t particularly stand out of have any hooks, ED will help you a LOT, provided you have the basic academics to get you considered.</p>
<p>*honestly think that essays are the deciding factor. Your stats are more or less irrelevant if your essays are strong.</p>
<p>ALL of my essays were HEAVILY business-related. In fact, I never veered off the topic; not even for a paragraph. *</p>
<p>Now let’s not be too quick to say what the “deciding factor” is. It could be any number of things. One of my hallmates started a business predicated on helping cancer patients, while he was still in high school. Another friend traded stocks to the point that he turned $10,000 he earned at summer jobs into upwards of $200,000. One is a terrific dancer and submitted a dance video with her application and another has all kinds of minority status, which is helpful in admissions. </p>
<p>I got in because of one of the following factors: I live in Philadelphia; my essay was unique (talked about a multi-cultural experience without even leaving the city limits); my interview went exceptionally well; my extra curriculars in high school were things I was interested in doing, not things I wanted to show off to admissions officers; my grades showed significant improvement from freshman to senior year; I didn’t kiss ass on my application, but I showed that if I got accepted, I’d probably go. Any one or multiple of those factors could be the reason(s) I got in.</p>
<p>Your stats are, by the way, always relevant, regardless of your essays. That said, if you want to think they’re irrelevant, then do so, since you can’t change your transcript; you have total control over the essays though.</p>