Just this past Friday I was rejected from my dream school (William and Mary) with a 4.0 GPA! I put everything I had into the application and spent hours pouring my heart and soul into it. Of course, there is nothing I can do to change the decision however I can tell you what I learned from the experience. The whole numbers game you are playing is important, but make sure you are focusing on yourself in the meantime. There is nothing anybody can say to make you feel 100% confident about your application or your stats so just try your best on everything during the next year and see where you land. For me, I did not land at W and M but I know that my future is not determined by this one decision. Good luck and BE CONFIDENT
My D had a friend who graduated in 2019 with a 1420 SAT, 97.63 average (school does not weight or use 4.0 scale but with an average like that, she likely didn’t get below a 94 on anything). She was an accomplished violinist, varsity sport captain, took every biomedical elective, all AP math and science classes, and volunteered and job shadowed at the hospital. She applied PreMed, was waitlisted and eventually rejected. Oh, and her aunt is a faculty member.
@barb4567 I am sorry for your disappointment. But you sound like a terrific student, and the school that enrolls you will be lucky!
OP, you must look at GPA in context. Perhaps this example will help illustrate what some posters are trying to convey to you.
Student A - 4.0 UW GPA, 1340 SAT, 29 ACT, standard math, science and English classes, some PE, art, music classes.
Student B- 3.76 UW GPA, 1510 SAT, 34 ACT, all AP or IB classes, most rigorous course designation from school, no art or PE classes. AP scores and SAT subject test scores to confirm proficiency in most subject areas.
It would be ridiculous to determine that because Student A had a better GPA that she was a stronger candidate than Student B and thus more guaranteed positive admission outcomes based on that fact. These are my children and I can assure you, that is not the case.
Your GPA is wonderful - congratulations! Perhaps you are correct and W&M will see that and fast track you to the yes pile, but perhaps they will be looking deeper and you should consider how to solidify yourself as someone who will bring something special to the campus.
barb4567… Really? 4.0? Why don’t you tell me what your SAT/ACT was? Did you forget that very important piece? Surely you cannot expect me to believe that you poured your heart/soul in W&M and are so happy about it. I have exchanged with numerous people who were deferred and they are DEVASTATED. Sorry Barb… I am going to continue to wait for a real 4.0. But man… I must have hit a nerve here… I am going to guess that I am not going to find a real 4. 0 rejection in ED1 because W&M wants 4.0 students. Just look at the CAPEX graph… Many 4.0’s ACCEPT but the don’t ATTEND. Think about it… So, you are the committee selecting students… You have a 4.0 (with a reasonable SAT) that is committing and must attend under ED1… Why wouldn’t you grab them? If the committee waits to get 4.0’s during RD, they don’t attend. Again, look at that graph… None of the 1400s/1500s SAT with 4.0 attended. the institution…Why? they got into IVY or a better schools. Comon… This is obvious. Thus far, that’s the way I see it but I will continue to wait for the 4.0s who got rejected under ED1 to come out…Thanks again to all. .
Sable999. I do agree and understand what you are saying here but we can only use Broad strokes here. We can’t possible drill down that deep. But shouldn’t we see some 4.0’s get rejected if you are correct? I am still waiting… In the end, GPA appears to have a greater weight than SAT so my 1330 should be OK… That’s all I am saying but the folks on this board are outraged that I would challenge their superior intelligence with facts.
@helpingmom40 Thank you for the post… You are missing one very important element… ED1… Thanks again…
OP, you seem confident, and that is fine - its your admission on the line. I will just point out that a) it has been clearly shown over the years that far fewer students who are rejected come back to report that on the threads and b) college confidential is a VERY narrow view of applicants. Just be careful making assumptions based solely on one flawed data point. Good luck. I hope it all works out for you.
@rvgros22, you are showing immaturity and rudeness in these last posts. If you want support from experienced posters in the future I suggest you tone it down.
Most of the posters trying to help and advise you on this thread are adults with a few thousand posts on CC and have been around the block a few times with regard to college admissions. @lookingforward has worked at an Ivy, and at 35,000 posts DOES know a thing or two. You may tell her “we may have to agree to disagree” but there’s no question that she knows more than you do about college admissions at elite schools. It would benefit you to think carefully about what she says and to respond in a thoughtful manner.
Perhaps @barb4567 (if a real student) didn’t post test scores because you, yourself were so hyper-focused on GPA and discounted the importance of test scores. I didn’t get the sense that barb was happy about the rejection after pouring out heart and soul, just determined to BE happy wherever she lands. That’s resiliance and…yes, maturity.
You’re right, your med-related ECs show very good accomplishments, and are something to be proud of. However, I don’t think you understand the level of competition, and just how many outstanding candidates there are. Also, schools like W&M are not just looking for students who achieve certain things; they are looking for students with a thirst to do and to learn, constantly and deeply. The stats and scores and accomplishments on paper are just the starting gate for demostrating certain qualities of mind. I’m not sure your defensive and snarky tones are demonstrating the maturity these schools are looking for.
My 16-year-old, 4.0 (u.w.) daughter started some volunteer work (that I’d say is a tad less impressive than yours) and I’m proud of her for it. She has some other ECs that she spends a LOT of time on. However, I can tell you, she’s not getting into W&M. MAYBE she’d have a modest chance if we lived in-state but I wouldn’t be betting on it. I’m proud of her as she is, and she will go to a very good school. Not necessarily an elite school, but one in which SHE can thrive. There’s no shame in not going to a highly-ranked school as long as a student works hard, engages, learns and grows.
No one is saying that you WON’T get into W&M, but that chances ar small given the deficits you show for THAT type of school, and that your hypothesis about GPA is naive. They are saying it’s competitive for exemplary candidates and even slimmer when there are areas of weakness on the application. Every year we read of DROVES of highly disappointed students who seemed to do every thing right. That is why we are saying to you:
Improve your grammar/writing skills; work hard on test prep this summer (and at least moderately over the school year as you find time); do ECs that are meaningful to YOU, and enjoy your high school time in and of itself and not just as a stepping stone to a particular college; cast a wide net in college admissions with safey, match and reach schools rather than ONE dream school; and learn gratitude toward those who try to help you by giving you the unvarnished truth that they see, rather than the fantasy that you want to hear.
There is no guarantee you would be happiest at W&M if you did get admitted. Don’t hang all your hopes on one school. Find the school that fits YOU and not the other way around.
Good luck to you in your future endeavors.
My point again…most of you here at the outset told to me walk away from W&M with a 1330. With the research thus far this is false information. With the 4.0 I AM in the game. You people had me walking away. Ate you kidding? There are no guarantees in this life i am hearing such dire warnings from you all but if rejected do I die? No. Its only december of my senior year… whats the problem? I have a 4.0 and can get into most schools. The sky will not fall.
@rvgros22 I cannot answer your question regarding W&M’s admissions for ED1. However if you were my kid or a friend of one of my kids, I would advise focusing on your grades. Strong grades at a rigorous HS usually contribute to high AP and SAT subject test scores, although SAT subject tests often involve extra preparation with a test prep book to fill in any gaps. Also, if it turns out that you don’t test as well as your academic record suggests, there are many excellent test optional schools where an unweighted 4.0 will be viewed favorably.
As for the SAT, it is possible to prepare even if you think you don’t have the time. Get the app for the SAT question of the day. Spend 10-15 targeted minutes a day on Kahn Academy. Get a test prep book and do one section of an official test every weekend, which should take no more than an hour. Even the most over scheduled student can carve out 10-15 minutes per day. Then you have all of your academic bases covered. Round out your application with ECs, strong letters of recommendation, and essays that show you at your best and demonstrate genuine interest for the school.
If you are basing the ED deferral or rejection rate on applicants posting on CC or reddit, keep in mind that most kids are NOT feverishly searching these sites. I have found a lot of info here but my S has never looked at this site AFAIK. Most applicants are also not going to seek out an opportunity to report a rejection. I know there are a lot of 4.0s out there, but there is always a chance for you. I am not sure anyone told you to walk away from W and M, but they advise falling in love with other schools as well, that’s all. Admissions is a terrible crapshoot even for those with wonderful applications. Good luck to you.
My daughter applied and was rejected ED1 with a 4.3 and 31 ACT. She also visited the campus multiple times for events/tours and had an interview that went very well. Her essay, as well as the optional essay, were both a great reflection of her. Although, she had only 2 years of foreign language and I saw on a Powerpoint presentation in our last visit that the typical student applying had at least 4 years. But I am still scratching my head as to why she wasn’t at least deferred…but that ship has sailed so we are moving forward.
I forgot to mention we are OOS.
@rvgross, no one has told you to walk away from W&M.
We are telling you that there are no assurances. We have seen too many high-stats kids heart-broken, who didn’t get into ANY school (or only got into a safety they didn’t like) because they were SO SURE thier high stats would get them into an elite dream school that they didn’t apply to a wide array of match colleges with higher acceptance rates.
We simply don’t want that to happen to you. Perfect grades (and perfect test scores) are more common than you seem to imagine. Do your best, apply to W&M, and also have a big safety net of other attractive options.
Right. The only two scenarios are not waste of time vs “hey, I’m good cuz I have a high gpa.” That’s incomplete thinking.
You need to understand the vast middle ground where you put continued effort into rigor, considerable focus on a substantial increase in scores, plus the right ECs and some critical thinking skills.
Why not do it right?
If the answer is no time, find colleges that dont expect holistic.
A 4.0 is great but they do care about the classes. a 4.0 in standard classes wont impress. They stress they like calc, physics, 4 years of science, math, and language. My daughter was able to increase her SAT scores by over 300 points using Khan Academy over the summer and was just accepted ED 1. But it was about 10 hours per week almost all summer. Definitely put your time in, take the Aug test and move on. Good luck.
@rvgros22
If your GPA is a 4.0 on a 4.56 scale, then converted to a 4.0 scale your GPA is really a 3.556 weighted,. Add that to your GPA W&M is really a reach for you.Unless you an amazing recited athlete.