ED2 Dilemma: Swarthmore vs. Pomona (vs. Bowdoin + Haverford) plus D3 XCTF

College Search & Selection
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Yes, I was directly informed that I would have full coach support in both ED2 and RD at Haverford. Thank you, though, that is certainly very important to keep in mind!

In terms of measuring the programs, I largely looked into all of the professors in each of their departments, as well as the courses for each major. The courses all seemed to be of similar, very high caliber… but the number of professors dedicated to Neuroscience, as well as how robust and how interesting their research was to me personally, varied somewhat.

Swat seemed to have much more focus on biology as a whole, with fewer Neuroscience professors. The Pomona professors’ research was the most interesting to me, with 2-3 professors whose labs I would really hope to work in, whereas I cannot say the same about Swat. Bowdoin and Haverford seem equally good with the professors, but none of their research applies as well to my interests as Pomona’s do.

And with the med school acceptance rates, I did not do a deep dive… good point!

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If Brown appealed to you partly because of its notably flexible curriculum, some of these colleges may be of interest for your greater list:

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You’re applying to all four but you want to apply to higher level with your ED.

Why? How many kids go to their state school or another when they can get into Ivy or top private?

They go where they want. You have to be somewhere, for four years, day after day. Wouldn’t you want to be where you want to be?

Plus, it’s not like Haverford is a cake admission.

I think your priorities might be a bit out of order. I haven’t read the rest of the responses yet so perhaps this was addressed.

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@hummingbird6 If you are still being actively recruited by Haverford for XTC that is a big deal. Are you familiar with Haverford’s esteemed and beloved XTC/T&F coach, Tom Donnelly? He has been at the college for over 45 years and is universally admired and adored in the T&F world. Here are a few articles about Coach Donnelly

https://www.americanrhodes.org/news-355.html
Tom Donnelly’s great runners return to Haverford College for reunion | Mike Jensen (Behind a paywall but the headline will give you the gist of how highly Coach Donnelly is regarded)

As a Haverford alum, I’m admittedly biased, but I am confident that you won’t be making an academic sacrifice by attending Haverford. My classmates and fellow alums have excelled in many fields from academia to finance to publishing to the arts and service. If it feels like a fit and you’re still an active recruit, I would apply ED2.

Perhaps @EyeVeee can add some insight as the parent of both Haverford and Swarthmore students.

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Another vote for Haverford; don’t get sucked into the toxic boarding school “prestige” race. Haverford is awesome and will take you wherever you want.

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It is certainly different scenery than bucolic Swarthmore, but there is a good amount of trail running very close to Pomona. 10 Best Trail Running Trails in Claremont | AllTrails.

Metrolink (train) runs from Claremont to Union Station. Still takes almost an hour but traffic is not a concern (which is good, since OP doesn’t drive)

Whichever ED2 school you choose, make sure you reach out to the coach and let them know. Couldn’t hurt. Might help.

Good luck!

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There is no quality difference between the schools you mentioned. You have a clear first choice. Exercise it. Whatever benefit you think will come by being able to brag to boarding school friends about a supposed prestige difference will be fleeting, compared to the four years you will spend living at a school that is not your first choice.

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Why are you not indicating your interest in neuroscience at this stage? From everything you have posted, it seems that you would choose neuroscience as a major.

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Haverford has an excellent visual arts program. In that aspect, I’d give it an edge over the others on your list.

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@hummingbird6 - as @gotham_mom pointed out, I’m the parent of a Swattie and a Ford.

I started a rather long response and was then pulled away by the two grads of interest. While away, I was thinking a bit about your situation and deleted it.

Instead of attempting to optimize prestige, consider how you’ll feel in April if you don’t get in anywhere. You seem to be pretty confident that Haverford will admit you, but if you get a rejection from Swat or Pomona on an ED2 app, are you gonna wish you’d have used it on Haverford?

Your initial post started from the heart, and then spun out of control when you’re head took over.

My gut is that you would fit in better at Haverford. I understand your strategic considerations, but I think ED2 is more about grabbing something you really want and not about rolling the dice to try and please others. ED2 should be about protecting something you would be crushed to lose if RD delivers a rejection.

Apply where you want to be the most. They are all great schools, you’re overthinking it.

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As a runner and former coach I would typically advise you to go to the best academic school but all of your choices are excellent so there is no option which is superior academically. If you truly want to run at the college level and are being recruited by Haverford then it is by far your safest choice.

There is no guarantee another school will take you as a walk on. If you do walk on, will you be on the travel team? Haverford is recruiting you at your current times so there is no additional pressure to meet a time standard to secure a spot on the team.

Sounds like you are leaning towards Haverford anyway so I would go with your gut.

Good luck with your decision.

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32

Although my print copy of U.S. News is two years old, you might be interested in the “selectivity ranks” of these colleges (within their category) as they appeared that year (top nine included for context):

:black_small_square:︎1. Pomona
:black_small_square:︎2. Harvey Mudd
:black_small_square:︎2. Haverford
:black_small_square:︎4. Amherst
:black_small_square:︎5. Hamilton
:black_small_square:︎5. Swarthmore
:black_small_square:︎5. Williams
:black_small_square:︎8. Barnard
:black_small_square:︎8. Bowdoin

More so than their general rankings suggest, this shows the similarity of these schools with respect to student profile.

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I agree with others that these schools are all very high quality and distinctions between them based on prestige, selectivity, med school admit rates are not very meaningful. More important is social and academic fit.

A few comments on the running side since you mention it’s important to you:

Be aware that XC in CA is not the same experience as XC in the Northeast. More dust than mud, generally hotter throughout the season, and courses aren’t quite the same. It can be a great experience but it probably isn’t what you’re used to.

Pomona women are a nationally competitive program in XC. Haverford women are near the bottom of their conference and an unusually small team with very few juniors and seniors. Swat is somewhere between those. I’d think about what your experience will be like at these programs. Keep in mind that in college not everyone gets to compete.

If coach support at Haverford is powerful I’d weigh that in the decision. I’m not clear it has the same force at Haverford as at, say, a nescac or Ivy.

If Haverford feels right I’d lock it down.

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sounds ilke most posters are suggesting you ED2 to Haverford. Our son runs on the XCTF team at Bowdoin and walked on after being accepted RD. He was in touch with the coach in late summer but was not recruited. Bowdoin typically recruits two long distance runners (to run all seasons) so most of the team walks on. Our son is a senior and I believe there are 6-7 senior long distance men on the team. I assume it’s the same for the women’s team. Just a couple of recruits. Your times are competitive to walk on.

If you have any questions about Bowdoin or the team, you can private message me.

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Haverford used to have a reputation of NOT admitting those who had had a positive pre-read. I don’t know if that has changed, but you can research some old threads Haverford Pre-Read or check other sources. Haverford would do a pre-read and determine “Yes, this student is qualified to attend.” What they didn’t tell the athlete was that many students got that positive pre-read but only a few would get admitted, and didn’t mean anything other than that the student was in the qualified pool. No thumb on the scale in admissions.

Ask the coach what the support means. Ask if any students who had full coach support didn’t get in. Ask if you need to apply E2 to get the support.

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These schools are all very good, so choose based on fit. If you prefer Haverford, go ahead and apply ED2 there.

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The issue you highlight is a difference in admission processes between schools. At some schools, the coach has a few “sponsorships” that can pretty much guarantee the admissions decision once it’s determined that the applicant “is qualified”. At Haverford, the feedback received merely lets you know that you have a chance (or that you’re not going to get in…but you don’t read about those here), but there are no guarantees.

The majority of the residual anger expressed on these boards about being misled at Haverford relates to a former lacrosse coach.

Most importantly to this OP, it sounds like the level of engagement with Haverford’s coach is higher than other schools, and statistically speaking, the OP probably has a better chance of admission at Haverford than the other schools mentioned. The OP is attempting to determine whether the contact and statistics are strong enough to ensure an RD admission, if not accepted someplace “more prestigious” with an ED2 app.

As I said above, I would advise the OP to go where they want to be with an ED2 app… not strategize for prestige.

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FWIW, I heard directly from Swarthmore’s women’s XC coach that to be officially recruited at Swarthmore, you need a sub-20 minute 5k. But he also said that the team is inclusive, strongly implying that the Swat team takes most walk-ons. In short, you could definitely make the team there (and probably at all the other schools as well) if that’s a concern.

If I were you, I’d probably just apply to all these schools RD unless you’re sure about Haverford. Why rush such an important decision? That said, I lack the experience that the other commenters have about such things.

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You are obviously a really smart person. I love that you have done so much research and you know so much about each of these 4 colleges that you are considering (med school acceptance rates etc). I love that you reassessed what you really want in a college/university after not getting into Brown ED1. You have a really good head on your shoulders and I think you should be confident in yourself to make the right decision for you regarding ED2.

No college is perfect, and from your personal situation, each of these 4 colleges have some great things about them, and each of them have a couple concerns.

Honestly if I were you, I would not apply ED2 to any of them. You are an extremely strong applicant, and I think you are very likely to get into Haverford applying ED2 or RD. By applying ED2, you are just boxing yourself in and eliminating your other options. By not applying ED2, you have the chance to be accepted to two, three or all of them. Applying RD would also give you more time to think about what to do. You may hear back from the other coaches in the next couple months (especially if a student athlete they expected to apply to their college ED2 ends up not applying ED2) and it may become obvious to you over the next 4 months that one of these 4 colleges is your definite top choice, or that one should be eliminated.

If you were not such a strong candidate, I would say ED2 to Haverford because it sounds like you would be happy there overall. But I think you can afford to apply RD to Haverford and see what happens with the other 3 in the RD round.

I think Pomona is a great option for you, and I don’t think you should be too worried about not liking California. The truth is that Pomona may feel more like home than the culture of a place like Swarthmore, which is a very unique place and a little more “love it or hate it” compared to Pomona where I think a greater variety of people can be very happy. The neuroscience opportunities at Pomona would be better than Haverford, and the geographically unified consortium of Pomona all on one campus is a major asset compared to Swarthmore and Haverford. I also don’t think that you should be concerned at all that Pomona’s physical closeness to the other Claremont colleges will feel like one (too big) university.

Unlike ED2 to the other colleges you are interested in, ED2 to Pomona usually offers very little boost to the acceptance rate compared to RD, so applying RD doesn’t really hurt you very much at all with Pomona. However, this opinion is based on acceptance rates for the general population, and it may not necessarily reflect the past experience of applicants from your particular high school - and based on your comments, it is possible that applying ED2 to Pomona would make a difference coming from your particular school, I don’t know.

So my advice is buy yourself some more time to think and ponder each of these 4 schools. You said you felt like you didn’t really understand what you actually wanted until you received the Brown ED1 news, so don’t rush yourself into making a hasty decision now. Good luck!

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I’m a little biased since S22 got in ED1 to Haverford last year, but if it is the school you like best you should ED there. S22 had considered ED to Brown until he visited and immediately decided he didn’t want to go there. My guess is he could have gotten into more “prestigious” schools or schools that are harder to get into, but he loved Haverford.

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