<p>I’m sickened by the attitude of some in this thread.</p>
<p>For those of you with students in college now who might want to help those in needy districts to get to college, there is a program called National College Advising Corps. It is currently in 16 or 18 states. Recent grads work as college advisers. D works for them in TX. Very fulfilling for her. She knows that I was one of those kids.</p>
<p>This looks like a great program, gloworm! I can certainly see the rationale for the near-peer model. It sounds just like something I’d like to do, though, despite being well outside their age range. I’d love to hear if anyone knows of other organized efforts similar to this one that call upon volunteers of all ages. My D would laugh so hard if she read this, but I think she’d secretly be proud of me and certainly would consider it a great way for me to channel the obsessive energy I’ve put into her college search. If this thread is still going next week, I’ll post if/when I hear back from the principals at my D’s former elementary and junior high schools and the GC from her HS. I’m going to have more time than money next year!</p>
<p>It is, absweetmarie.</p>
<p>IL is one of the states, too, if you have a student going to UIUC.</p>
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<p>Oh, I wholly disagree. Asking for help is not sufficient if nobody around you knows how to help you. Like I said with my FAFSA application, the so-called expert in my school could provide no assistance when my mother had not and did not intend to file her taxes that year. I was able to get the numbers by having my brother help me calculate the appropriate columns in a 1040 form, but if my brother hadn’t been able to help me there literally would have been nothing I could do aside from pestering my mother to file her taxes, and at that point, file past the financial aid deadline for my schools. With my friend, her dad would not help her at all to get the financial information she needed for FAFSA, and so she was stuck. There’s emancipation, sure, but that’s a very complex legal process and it also decreases the amount of aid to which you are entitled.</p>
<p>Even if you do get full TAP and state (Pell, in NY) grants, many kids face logistics that are very difficult to pull through, even if they are savvy. For example, I could have attended the community college around where I lived and commuted via bus, but what of those kids that don’t have a college nearby who do not have cars by which to commute, or the money to live nearby. Loan debts can pile up even with the thriftiest of schools, and the added burdens of being poor or having other trouble (having to work to get by, being responsible for childcare, or having turbulent home situations) may prevent kids from getting grades adequate to be considered for scholarship. </p>
<p>It is so much more than having the gumption for asking for help. In many cases, the help is lacking and the aid that is in place for those from such situations is inadequate. This is also incredibly discouraging. I know firsthand how frustrating it is to go through the process of trying to figure out how to make a college education possible without the same resources as your peers. You just run into roadblock after roadblock, try to navigate through sites where the information is scattered and you have to piece it together, and run back and forth between supposedly knowledgeable adults who don’t really know how to answer your questions. And this is from someone who DID have a computer at home and parents who encouraged pursuing an education. </p>
<p>Sure, there are people who rise above seemingly insurmountable situations, but these people are outliers, and there is definitely more to their situations than pluck. I spoke to a professor out of curiosity about how some people from very neglectful backgrounds manage to rise above their situations, specifically because I have a friend in college who survived some of the worst neglect anybody I know has ever experienced. </p>
<p>What my professor told me is this: generally, they find that people who are resilient in these situations have OTHER people in their lives other than their parents who are providing that guidance and support that they would otherwise be lacking. What reinforcement they don’t get at home for doing well, they find from someone else in the community, be that a teacher, other relative, clergy member, etc. </p>
<p>I agree with other posters who have stated that this general attitude is pretty abhorrent. Instead of trying to come up with solutions to the problems that pervade our society, some people shrug and say that those who fail to overcome incredible odds are just unmotivated. The truth is that if your children were in the situations of my friends who aren’t quite as successful in life, I’m pretty sure that they wouldn’t be doing so well either. There is a vast difference between the realm of possibility and something being a probable or expected outcome.</p>
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<p>I had the same thought more than once while reading this thread. Please let us know what you find out! I’ve informally helped a friend with her S, more because she isn’t American and works a zillion hours a week so is unfamiliar with the process, and that makes me think maybe i have something to contribute.</p>
<p>Oh, this thread is incredibly hurtful to those who really suffer economically. I can’t believe what I read… “Education gap is by choice”… “This is a blanket argument against immigration.”… “Mom won’t be there when in a year or two that kid is in college.”…</p>
<p>This study looked into kids growing up in poor households. These are kids who live in group homes because their family life isn’t safe. They don’t see their mothers (who are drug addicts) or their fathers (who left them long ago). I work with these kids. Their fathers are in jail. Their mothers don’t look at their homework because they couldn’t even read it to check it. And for anyone who thinks they should those elementary kids are cute, you wouldn’t think “cute” once you see how poorly they behave. School is hard for them; can’t imagine their challenges. </p>
<p>I work with third graders who read at the first grade level. That’s the “marker” year. If someone is still struggling to read by third grade, research shows that something like 57-plus% of those students will drop out of hs. Once they drop back in reading, the gap keeps widening. They don’t read because their comprehension is low and they don’t comprehend because they don’t read. Most new vocabulary words after 4th grade are obtained through books and discussing books, but it you don’t read…?</p>
<p>So if you really want to help those kids, volunteer in the early years. Be sure kids can read and can read to someone. This alone will make a difference.</p>
<p>Originally Posted by bclintonk
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<p>Amen!</p>
<p>I read this earlier this evening and thought it relevant, </p>
<p><a href=“Opinion | Money and Morals - The New York Times”>Opinion | Money and Morals - The New York Times;
<p>In terms of what will work, I am very interested in programs such as the Harlem Children’s Zone, which tries to have a well-defined series of supports from pregnancy through high school/college in order to effect change both at the individual level of each child and at the neighborhood level of having significant numbers of parents aspiring for their children, quality schools educating children, and children achieving (i.e., this changes the social climate or milieu).</p>
<p>In addition to helping (volunteering) with high school kids for college applications, or with young elementary-age children, I often think mentoring/supporting pregnant women and parents of infants/toddlers is key, since that is the juncture in which people begin to envision the possibilities for their kids and begin to establish their identities as parents. It is a time when people tend to be a little more open to change and information… I also have wondered about family to family support, whereby families with different skill sets could mutually assist each other…</p>
<p>I agree that if, as a society, we can begin to decrease gaps in achievement between racial groups, we can do it between income groups. Interesting thread, and the variety of opinions and experiences adds value.</p>
<p>I’m thinking of some of the types of jobs that used to be plentiful in my state and are dwindling: forestry, fishing, aluminum plants, pulp and paper mills, shipyards. These industries provided lots of dangerous, but relatively decent employment for non college educated men. Furthermore, they provided employment and supported small population centers in relatively remote areas of the state. When those industries die, or pick up and leave there are few other solid local options. There is a generational lag, as my husband experienced, where parents expected that their kids could provide for families without going on educationally and didn’t promote or expect aspirations beyond basic high school education. When those jobs dry up there is a generation of men who grew up under one set of rules that shifted mid-game. There is also a frontier, individualistic ethos in many more remote towns where people cobble together a living as best they can rather than moving to the city. Many of H’s classmates are still “in town” piecing together a living with several irons in the fire. Many of his female classmates are cleaning houses and working at convalescent homes or in home health juggling odd shifts to make ends meet. The ones who left for college never went back. </p>
<p>It brings to mind the movie “October Sky” the story of the mining town and the rocket boys. Recognizing that it’s a movie - there is a combination of mentoring teacher, peer support, community backing, kind and understanding mother etc. that made it possible for the group of boys to rise above low expectations, occupational tradition, poverty, alcoholism and abuse.</p>
<p>Saintfan, I agree wholeheartedly. Employment that used to be available to the hard working but uneducated is certainly dwindling. In this region it is steel plant and auto manufacturing positions. Those were the positions that led the family in upward mobility. Dad took a job at the steel plant to provide a living and income allowed for the upward mobilty of the children through education.</p>
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<p>It is the other way around; Pell is federal aid and TAP is NYS aid</p>
<p>In today’s paper: Dickenson college in ND is in trouble for granting degrees to 410 Chinese students, 400 of whom didn’t meet the coursework, GPA, and/or Eng. language requirements! Dickenson was happy to take their money and look the other way because enrollment is down due to the shale-oil boom in ND. It seems kids are going to work instead of to college.</p>
<p>So MiamiDAP–you were wondering how so many Chinese students manage to get through college when the American kids can’t? At at least one college, it’s a simple matter of $$ to pay for a degree.</p>
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Sadly, these programs are far and few between in the inner city where I work. There are so many needy kids. However, I do notice the community spirit within many families (partly because so many are related to each other) and church is also a huge factor. </p>
<p>This still doesn’t get to the core of the problem: that many of these kids are reading well below grade level. For that, these kids need support that they might not get at home.</p>
<p>Please if you can: volunteer in your local elementary school. One of the most effective ways to help is simply listen to children read. They need that experience, that one-on-one support to become strong, fluent readers. This is particularly true for kids whose families do not speak English at home. Reading is not necessarily intuitive and practice, practice, practice makes a huge difference. Once kids become strong readers, their opportunities ahead can be limitless, but without that ability, the gap widens and problems persist.</p>
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I beg to differ mncollege. Many of the “people” (families) you are referring to have no choice. The problems have continued for generations and generations. They DO NOT walk around the mall “all day” to look at items they can not buy. Many of those who might be there are there because the mall is heated or air conditioned, which their (closet-sized) apartments probably don’t have. Those who ‘mall walkers’ would rather get a job, but those jobs are limited. They are limited because their skills are limited.</p>
<p>It’s true that some cultures do not value education as highly as other cultures. See <a href=“Mexicans in New York City Lag in Education - The New York Times”>Mexicans in New York City Lag in Education - The New York Times; but that is because many of these families do not speak English at home and therefore can not support their children with their reading and other homework. It’s Catch 22.</p>
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<p>I can’t help but feel that a more literate public (whether someone goes on to four-year college or an associates degree or into one of the vanishing trades) is essential if we are going to have the slightest prayer of staying competitive this century. </p>
<p>limabeans, I am interested to hear more on the concept of the “marker” year for reading (in post #126). </p>
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<p>This is making me cry. To think that such a simple thing could help a kid so much. And how hard could it be? Really, how delightful would it be to hear little ones read for those of us whose children are grown?</p>
<p>limabeans–feel free to spend a day at your local “social services” department and tell me I am wrong. There is very much a faction of the low income population that are lifers on the system and work the system to their advantage…whether you choose to believe that or not. I have spent many years working with various social services organizations and this is first hand knowledge. There are many that do want help and try to get off welfare and work hard to do so but they are not the ones who’s kids are failing in school. They are the ones that show up for parent teacher conferences, they are not the ones crying to the school because it’s “YOUR job, not mine to teach these kids”. All of these programs are well and good but it still doesn’t address the problem that there are just too many parents who’s kids are the ones failing in school that just don’t care. Unless the program is free and you take care of getting their child back and forth and feed the kids while they are gone and figure out how the younger siblings are going to be taken care of while the older sibling is visiting the zoo, they won’t come. Be as offended with me as you want but these programs are still not addressing the underlying issue this country is having and that is the parents that don’t care.</p>
<p>What do you think you might be able to do to help, mncollegemom?</p>
<p>I have been helping. I have spent countless hours in schools working with low income kids. Sometimes it helps, other times it doesn’t. It’s amazing how much these kids WANT to learn, but they need someone to say, WOW look at that spelling test and how well you did. IT IS as simple as that. Yep, it’s hard to overcome things when they get home, show mom the test and all mom says is “you are late”. It’s a crying shame and your heart just breaks for these kids but the kids that WANT to do better do. Those that don’t you can only help so much. You will never see the 100% proficient rate the government thinks is possible and until people realize that, you are doing more harm than good. I agree that we need to find a path for those that don’t want to be in school. There needs to be a direct tie to a job, not just “looking” for a job to receive welfare payments. Medical benefits, food supplement programs need to have higher income thresholds (although the health care reforms will help that) so people don’t fear losing medical coverage. In our state the state pool addresses that and the fees are on a sliding scale that is very affordable. That is not available everywhere. Stop the handouts and tie it to something tangible, either a job or “volunteer” hours at a school or whatever. The biggest thing that can help is for everyone to STOP MAKING EXCUSES for why they are where they are and just buck it up and do something. If you always give people the excuse of 'well, it’s ok, your mom was an alcoholic so you didn’t know any better" that is exactly what people are going to continue to believe. The comment should be “I’m sorry your mom made bad choices, what are YOU going to do so you don’t end up there too?”.</p>
<p>“This is a blanket argument against immigration.”</p>
<p>I think you misinterpreted my comment. I was trying to point out that a poster’s attribution of the income gap to illegal immigration applied to ALL immigration – including that which brought most of our uneducated ancestors here. It’s a bad argument because it overlooks the fact that I and most of my classmates at Harvard came from uneducated, non-English-speaking immigrants. In my case, that was just two generations ago and I knew those grandparents well.</p>