Education in the US needs to be changed and reinstated value.

Parents Forum
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<p>I personally think that there are way too many people who are not cut out for college. This is how we end up with a bunch of graduates with bachelor degrees that took little effort to earn in the first place. Due to the excessive amount of graduates, the bachelor degree isn't worth a lot unless youre an engineer and/or have a high gpa and plan on going to grad school. Even then, a masters or phd won't guarantee you a job.</p>

<p>We need to start teaching the academically challenged kids that there are other options besides college such as the military or vocational school, which provides one with skills for jobs.</p>

<p>To reduce the glut of dumb college graduates out there, we simply need to raise the bar in order to get into college from high school. This seems obvious because not every high schooler is ready to make the transition to college as soon as they graduate just to get a subpar gpa and put in no effort into getting a degree that they don't know what to do with.</p>

<p>We should make it so that to even get into college you need a minimum gpa of 3.25 so the ones that are academically ready to accept the workload and responsibilities of a college life can move on and succeed. High school is easy enough already, I graduated with a 4.2. But that's because I took responsibility and matured and this was shown through my grades. I knew I was ready for college because of the work I put in during high school.</p>

<p>Meanwhile I has friends who had 2.2s or 2.8s. They obviously weren't ready.</p>

<p>So I say we need a 3.25 gpa minimum to apply to a 4 year university or college. Otherwise there isn't going to be any value in a higher education. There should also be a minimum score on standardized Tests in order to apply. For the SAT it should be 1600/2400 or 24/36 for the ACT.</p>

<p>Now what about those that didn't have a 3.25? They can go to vocational school, get a job, join the military OR attend a community college and get a gpa of 3.25 so they can apply again to 4 year schools and show them they can handle college.</p>

<p>3.25 is just a number I came up with. In my opinion its not a bad minimum. Reducing the dumb kids getting college degrees will brig back value to the higher education degrees in America and help out the education system overall.</p>

<p>I remember when I was going to get a BS in biology, I would always tell family and friends that asked about my major and they would act as if I was a genius. It's quite the opposite. Biology teaches you nothing besides memorization skills. (which is why I changed to math.) </p>

<p>If only the uneducated knew how worthless bachelor degrees are.</p>

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<p>Worried you won’t be accepted to grade school with less than a B in Ochem?
Perhaps if you retake it, you can get a higher grade.</p>

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<p>I’m not sure what you’re implying. Retakes are out of the question. Students who messed up should be given the opportunity to redeem themselves by retaking courses they did poorly in. </p>

<p>For example, let’s say there was a minimum gpa needed just to apply to college. A junior finds out his gpa is only 2.8 and he is worried. He can choose to retake those classes during the school year or the summer. </p>

<p>But overall it would be the students fault for messing up in the first place so it only makes sense that they are penalized. Retaking courses is a second chance. Students should be glad to have an opportunity to fix their mistake.</p>

<p>And last time I checked ochem was a college level course.</p>

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<p>Every single college has a minimum GPA they will take whether it’s written on their website or it’s unspoken in the admissions office. There are colleges that will take a 1.9 student and put them on a probationary year. Kids in colleges all over the country are “redeeming” their past mistakes. Only about half the kids that start college finish their undergraduate degree so I’m not aware of “dumb college graduates.” A goodly number of college graduates never started at 18, they started as older students. No one says that college is grade 13 to be started immediately after grade 12. I do not understand the underlying premise or basis for your thread.</p>

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<p>A 1.9 gpa is low. The bar needs to be raised to reinstate the value of a college degree. Starting with high school gpa and test score requirements necessary for college applications. There should also be a required gpa minimum while attending college that is necessary in order to graduate. I know colleges already have that and mine had a gpa of 2.0. 2.0 is too low, we need to raise it to at least a 3.0.</p>

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<p>All the institution of higher minimum GPAs for admission and graduation will do is ensure even more grade inflation at all levels.</p>

<p>If you were disappointed with the caliber of your classmates and your curriculum, why didn’t you transfer to a school with better peers and more challenging programs?</p>

<p>No one pretends that every college degree in every discipline from every institution is equal. Education is a market. Buy a better product.</p>

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<p>I’m advocating a minimum gpa required to actually apply to college. Let’s consider medical schools. Most of them have a minimum requirement of a 3.0 gpa to even apply. And even then you’re not guarenteed to get in. I think undergrad admission should be like this. This would ensure that there isn’t a surplus of students who went to college, partied, and graduated with a BS degree with a mediocre gpa. The worth of a college degree would go up.</p>

<p>There would also be room for students to improve themselves if they didn’t get the opportunity to apply to college because of their gpa. They could attend community college and show universities that they improved and reapply.</p>

<p>I agree with your concern for grade inflation and a minimum gpa requirement in order for undergrads to graduate with their respective degree. But at the same time I don’t. Students will simply have to work harder to achieve a 3.0 (if that was the minimum needed to get a degree) than a 2.0. No grade inflation involved. </p>

<p>First of all, the students not ready for college will be weeded out due to grade/test score requirements needed to apply to college.</p>

<p>Then those select few that get in and eventually graduate. Those that cant meet the minimum gpa will simply not receive a degree.</p>

<p>Now the graduating class is further reduced. Less degrees are being given out in the United States, thus the worth goes up and we end up with a better education system with better educated students that have the work ethic necessary to get good jobs.</p>

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<p>To presume that every student that doesn’t do well in high school will not be able to succeed in college and life is a dangerous thought set to have. Have you not seen the bumper stickers that say “My C student is your A student’s boss”. There’s a reason someone made those bumper stickers. Success entails many variables, not just the variable of being able to perform well within a specific criteria of benchmarks. If that were the case every “smart” high school kid would be a successful college student and we all know that is not true. And I agree with NJSue, if you felt that you were surrounded by the wrong kids you picked the wrong college.</p>

<p>The college in our state that takes those kids and puts them through a probation period is not UofM and they are working with kids that generally are very disadvantaged. I have no problem with any college in the country giving disadvantaged kids an opportunity to catch up for a year. I do not believe EVERY college should be doing this, but ear marking a college or two in each state I have no problem with. </p>

<p>I know of very few colleges that do not require a B average for the student to stay in their major. An overall 2.0 to stay in the college in general. It wouldn’t surprise me if there were colleges that didn’t but again, I’m not aware of any that would continue to pass through a poorly performing student. Generally students that do not perform are put on probation or asked to leave. Again perhaps you are at a college that is a poor fit for you.</p>

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<p>No, I’m satisfied with my college. I just think its a better solution to weed out students by raising the bar.</p>

<p>My school had a minimum 2.0 gpa requirement in order to receive a degree. In my opinion, this is too low if we’re trying to make the degree worth more.</p>

<p>I know that there are other variables factored into getting a good job and a degree alone cannot accomplish this. But getting a college degree should mean more than it does as of now. That’s why I think there needs to be more restrictions. Students simply aren’t working hard enough for their degrees nowadays nor are they passionate enough. </p>

<p>College should be seen as being a very tough form of higher education to get into and get out of, thus leading employers to think “Gee, that guy graduated from college, he must have good work ethic”.</p>

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<p>Well, we required the kids to keep a 3.0 minimum and not just in their major for us to continue paying and it took some work ethic on their part. Their college required them to keep a 3.0 in their major to stay in the program. I’m of the school of thought that think a B is above average and acceptable. Do I think the kids could do better than a 3.0…well yes and they are doing better than that for the most part. I guess the bottom line for me is that at least half the kids manage to perform…the other half don’t graduate. I also believe that performance is individual…some kids run at the front of the pack and perform best when no one is breathing down their neck…some kids need others to propel them to greater outcomes and some kids are happiest running in the middle of the pack and finishing and others fall off and drop off and never finish or wait awhile and try a race again. No one knows the outcome of the race at the beginning so why should we cut-off high school seniors from even entering the race? We won’t know the outcome of the race until it’s over.</p>

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<p>Do you know what an MD degree is? Do you know what it’s worth? Do you know how much hardwork and dedication is involve in getting that degree?</p>

<p>Someone with an MD or a DO from the US is known to have received a great education that can be applied to healthcare.</p>

<p>The BS is seen as… well BS. It isn’t worth anything. We need to make it so people look at a bachelors degree as a viable option.</p>

<p>We need to raise standards in order to bring back the prestige to a college degree and let people know it takes hard work and dedication in order to get such a degree, just like the MD or DO in comparison.</p>

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<p>I went to high school at an exclusive New England prep school where I did not fit in with the other students and endured four years of hell. Not unexpectadly my grades suffered and I had a terrible high school GPA. I did do well on the SATs and found a college that would take me. In college I found people I was able to fit in with and was so much happier. My grades shot up and I was accepted at a U.S. medical school earned an MD and am a practicing physician today.</p>

<p>There are numerous reasons having nothing to do with intelligence why a student might not do well in high school so I think high school is a little early to start writing people off as unfit for college. The fact that nearly half of all students who start as freshmen in college never earn a BA or BS is pretty strong evidence that colleges already do a pretty thorough job of weeding out weak students well before they are awarded a college degree.</p>

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<p>Why is anyone posting on this thread?</p>

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<p>Why? What good will that do?</p>

<p>And you talk with the air of someone narcissistic and superior to your classmates. If you feel you are better and a lot smarter than them, then why don’t you transfer to a university with a more challenging student body, as NJSue said?</p>

<p>Take a look at this thread: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/767966-where-did-your-3-0-3-3-gpa-child-get-2.html?highlight=where+did+your[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/767966-where-did-your-3-0-3-3-gpa-child-get-2.html?highlight=where+did+your&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;

<p>There are some respectable schools in that thread, including NYU, GWU, and Northeastern</p>

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<p>while I sympathize with the view that BA and BS degrees are becoming very common, the OP is very misguided, IMO. There is no reason to limit the people going to college. If people want to go, they should be able to go.</p>

<p>Now, if you want to cut federal subsidies for higher education, I might be more inclined to consider that.</p>

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<p>I attended a STEM centered public high school where I graduated somewhere in the bottom half of my graduating class. Despite that, I graduated from a respectable top-25 LAC as a scholarship student with a GPA most parents would be proud of. </p>

<p>More impressively, my HS classmates with 2.0 or less in high school GRADUATED from the following universities with 3.5+ cumulative GPAs:</p>

<p>Reed, CMU, Cornell, Columbia, etc…and most were STEM majors…usually Engineering/CS with a pre-med or two thrown in.</p>

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<p>And this is inherently desirable why? </p>

<p>And where’s the breaking point? The value of a college degree would be much higher if you set the minimum applicant GPA at 4.0 and the minimum SAT at 2400. There would only be a handful of BAs awarded every year. Why is your particular choice of cutoff the optimal one?</p>

<p>In addition, it seems you wish for a unilateral, uniform restriction applied to every college and university in the United States. Why would the many hundreds of universities that target applicants with lower GPAs agree to do this? The theoretical benefits are totally meaningless if the school has to shut down for a lack of students.</p>

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<p>If you read my OP, you would see that 3.25 was just a number I made up. I’m saying there should be a minimum gpa that is moderately difficult to attain so universities and colleges know that the student is ready. And as I said before, community college is always an opportunity for redemption.</p>

<p>This would require an educational reform and some universities/colleges would have to either change their requirements or shut down.</p>

<p>This isn’t a way to limit students from getting an education. In fact it is in their hands as to whether they can receive an education or not. This is to bring back value to the American education system and graduate true scholars that are dedicated to their study of choice.</p>

<p>Also, grade inflation isn’t much of a problem. Depending on what high school you go to, you would have to get a 3.25 in terms of that school. Everything is proportional. Sure, some students would be more or less prepared than others, but a 3.25 is still considered a solid gpa and shows that a decent amount of work was put in on the students part.</p>

<p>You also forgot to mention standardized test scores. These go hand and hand with gpas because everyone is required to take it for college admissions. A minimum standardized test score actually makes more sense than a minimum gpa, but together they could do wonders.</p>

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<p>Sounds good on the surface. How do you think the various colleges faced with closure or cutbacks as a result of your plan would respond? No more student loan gravy train for them and so I suspect they would do every thing in their power to bury that idea six feet under.</p>

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<p>I understand the point that the OP makes however a system like the one you are proposing would be very similar to those we see in other countries. The result is that there are very few colleges and the majority of the citizens are forced to work in rural areas as farmers or city dwellers as store clerks. Should a 17 or 18 year old have their life predetermined just because of one set of grades or SAT exams? There are countless students who at this tender age mature and become students. I know you mentioned that these are the students who would attend community colleges but that sounds like you have little or no respect for those institutions or the reasons why so many students attend those schools. Do you think upon graduating CC these students would be able to have a place to go if all of the other colleges have closed down under your system of education. There just wouldn’t be any schools available. </p>

<p>I could see a system of higher education working better if we set GPA cutoffs for those receiving financial aid. I think there are many students in CC and other colleges that are attending because it is free. I think everyone regardless of income should have an opportunity to be educated but not after several semester attempts and continued failure while receiving financial aid.</p>