<p>Something tells me that if outsourcing was so precipitous that there would be a much higher reported unemployment rate of not only electrical engineers, but the profession writ large. Yes, there is outsourcing, and no, I do not see it as such a big thing if one chooses a niche that compliments, rather than competes, with India.</p>
<p>I should not that my friend in NoVa who works for a mid-sized software company tells me that the Indians employed there do not exactly have their diodes forward-biased. He spends more time picking out bugs than anything else.</p>
<p>He never said it wasn’t happening. He just said it wasn’t a huge problem, especially in areas not related to computers. That is what we have been saying all along. Civil engineering doesn’t get outsourced much. Aerospace engineering doesn’t get outsourced much. Mechanical engineering only get outsourced in some fields, and even then, none of my fellow ME’s that I have ever known have lost out on a job because of it.</p>
<p>Outsourcing happens. That is a fact. No one is denying that. What we are saying is that there isn’t some huge overabundance of engineers like you are claiming, so the outsourcing doesn’t actually affect nearly as many people as you claim. Due to various forms of attrition (finance, law, consulting, entrepreneurship, change of heart, etc) there are a lot of engineers that never actually decide to work for engineering companies. Sure there are some that simply can’t get a job, but there are plenty more that just don’t want to work in a technical position. I know quite a few people who, by choice, did things other than engineering right after they finished undergrad. That is why you can’t just go off of the simple number of “engineers” graduated. You have to go off of how many are graduated who are actually interested in engineering as a career and who are qualified.</p>
<p>Outsourcing is real, but it is not the doomsday situation you portray.</p>
<p>“Something tells me that if outsourcing was so precipitous that there would be a much higher reported unemployment rate of not only electrical engineers, but the profession writ large.”</p>
<p>True, but let’s not forget that unemployment numbers do not include people (including engineers) who have given up looking for work, are underemployed, or are working in different fields because they could not find a job in engineering. The U6 unemployment rate, which counts these types of workers, is currently 16.5%. I don’t know what the U6 unemployment rate is for engieners since I don’t beleive it is broken down by profession, but if it was broken down by job, I guarantee you that engineers would have a higher unemployment rate (as would every other profession).</p>
<p>That is an awfully bold guarantee without any facts to back it up.</p>
<p>Be that as it may, it is correct to think that the U6 unemployment rate would likely be higher for engineers than the vanilla unemployment rate. However, I would submit to you that due to the versatility of an engineering degree, the increase is almost certainly not as drastic as compared to most other fields. Do I have stats to back that up? Not really. However, like it or not, engineering degrees are very versatile. There are many non-engineering professions that like to employ engineers that still pay a heck of a lot more than being a barista at Starbucks.</p>
<p>That still doesn’t address the fact that nearly every profession is hurting right now.</p>
<p>Additionally, you have nothing that connects these unemployment factors directly to outsourcing as opposed to, say, the ridiculous recession we are in.</p>
<p>Homer - I have read enough about the BLS’ shenanigans to know that U3 is deceptive and that U6 is arguably more vaild. Still, unemployment data may be used as a relative indicator as to which demographic has more unemployment.</p>
<p>That said, I think without some concrete statistics, whether an EE degree is worthy is largely based upon one’s own non-objective judgements.</p>
<p>Yes outsourcing exists, but not to the extent that it will threaten the profession. If it did, you would see ASCE, ASME, IEEE, AiChE, etc. making a big deal about it. I can’t speak for fields other than my own, but outsourcing has not been an issue that has been raised from what I’ve seen. If it was, they would be all over that because it would result in a decrease in membership leading to a decrease in funds.</p>
Hey, I’m posting national averages straight from the government sites - they are what they are. As many have noted, cost-of-living plays a factor in all salaries, and NYC is one of the most expensive markets in the world - you were expecting below average?</p>
<p>So, let’s look at New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island:</p>
No, and that is why Law is pretty far down on the options list for me. Still, if that was where the jobs were I would cowboy up and get me a law degree. Lots of patent attorneys worked as technical professionals before getting their law degree.</p>
<p>“Yes outsourcing exists, but not to the extent that it will threaten the profession. If it did, you would see ASCE, ASME, IEEE, AiChE, etc. making a big deal about it.”</p>
<hr>
<p>IEEE’s Hira isn’t so sure about Miller’s posturing, either. “The 3.3 million may well be hyperbole, but it may not,” he says. “The reality is jobs are moving offshore.” </p>
<p>The IEEE is also concerned about the H-1B and L-1 visas that allow U.S. companies to recruit foreign engineers at lower salaries. The program was started due to a shortage of technical people in the country during the dot-com boom, but with the unemployment rate of engineers so high, its existence is questionable, says Hira. “There have been so many egregious examples of companies bringing in and misusing those visas.” </p>
<p>And this comes directly from the IEEE website:</p>
<p>The offshoring of high wage jobs from the United States to overseas locations is currently contributing to unprecedented levels of unemployment among American electrical, electronics and computer engineers. Offshoring also poses a very serious, long term challenge to the nation’s leadership in technology and innovation, its economic prosperity, and its military and homeland security.
IEEE-USA believes that prudent steps must be taken to ensure that offshoring benefits the United States and all its citizens, including high tech workers.</p>
<p>“Hmmm… NYC, good place to be a nurse or accountant, not so good for engineering, bad if you are a surgeon!”</p>
<p>Well, I know of several mansions in my area that are owned by surgeons and there is no way they are paying the mortgage on them on just $202,000 a year. I doubt that figure. This article provides a better insight into surgeon salaries:</p>
<p>“Milhorat raked in an eye-popping $7.2 million in 2007, according to IRS filings. Crain’s New York called him the highest paid surgeon in the metro area that year, which is the most recent for which data is available.” </p>
<p>Also, I don’t doubt that NYC is not a good place to be an engineer since there is not much research and development or manufacturing here. NYC is a finance dominated city, with 25% of all wages earned in the financial sector.</p>
Well, it should certainly make you more competent than someone who has never even dipped their feet in the field!</p>
<p>For what it is worth, prior to getting my engineering degree I worked as a technician for 3 different companies ranging in size from 7 to 100,000+. I have received a BS and MS in EE and am now studying for my PhD at one of the top departments in the country (still working part-time, BTW). In the four years since I have graduated I have been gainfully employed in the field. During college and since I have been asked to sit on panels discussing the issues of engineering enrollment and standards (college), as well as recruiting, retention, and career growth (industry).</p>
Good for him! Either there are a lot of other surgeons scraping by on a lot less, or else huge numbers of medical professionals are misrepresenting themselves to the IRS… which I freely admit is a possibility. Perhaps they call themselves “rock stars”.</p>
<p>Or perhaps the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, representing the US government (the only organization in the US legally empowered to compel people to reveal their salaries and job titles), is unable to figure averages.</p>
<p>Should ANYONE enter any field other than petrochemical engineering? It has been noted that the field in question is both lucrative and expanding - I don’t think anyone has posed a bachelor’s level field that is better in these areas. Does that make EVERYONE else (including accountants) idiots?</p>
<p>What about a few years later when said field is no longer at the top, and has been supplanted? Should petrochemical engineers retrain, or just shoot themselves?</p>
<p>What are we going to do when you have convinced the entire world that the only reason to pick a job is money and job security? Do we then wear petrochemicals, eat petrochemicals, drive petrochemicals, and live in petrochemicals?</p>
<p>Do you seriously believe that NO ONE should enter, for example, the field of electrical engineering? If not, then who made you the gatekeeper for my profession?</p>
<p>Umm, I have also recommended healthcare. I would not recommend engineering, exlcuding petro, UNLESS you go to a top school. This way you have the opportunity to land a job in finance and consulting. If you look at top schools like Duke and U Penn, only a small fraction of engineering grads take engineering jobs. Most go into finance and consulting.</p>
<p>I would also recommend all engineering majors if you have connections in the field so that you can get a job easier.</p>
<p>So a resentful kid with an accounting degree and no experience doesn’t recommend engineering. I guess we should all look for new careers then. A kid with no job is giving career advice? This can’t be serious. I mean really? Homer, you really have no idea what you are talking about. In engineering, you don’t need to go to the very top schools to be successful. Every post of yours just makes you look even more foolish and misinformed. You just don’t know when to stop. I am an engineer with an advanced degree and you just disregard everything I say. Typical annoying resentful, jealous, business major.</p>
<p>Can we please get a modertor to ban this guy? This is getting ridiculous.</p>
<p>Apparently Duke and UPenn are the top engineering schools now, as well. So says the accountant.</p>
<p>I like how he has blatantly ignored many of our arguments that he cannot refute and has stuck to the same few point, most of which are examples of outliers.</p>
<p>I did not mean top engineering schools. I meant top schools, OVERALL. Finance does not care about engineering school rankings since they recruit from a wide number of majors.</p>
<p>Oh, and I am not jealous of you. I know doctors who are very successful and make well over $500k. You say your successful. Maybe you are. Maybe you are not. You say you don’t need to go to a top engineering school to be successful, but in your past psots you repeatedly brag about going to a top 20 research school. I only know 1 engineer and he is not successful. </p>
<p>And what chance does a recent engineering grad have of getting a job when they are competing with far more experienced ones, many of whom are PEs. </p>
<p>And FYI: I do have a job, not in accounting though.</p>
<p>So, by your way of thinking, the only way it is worth going to college is if you go to a top school and major in something that gets you into either healthcare or finance, or go get a degree in petroleum engineering? Those are the only careers that should be pursued?</p>
<p>This world is going to be pretty interesting with only doctors, nurses, investment bankers and oil men. I can’t wait to see it.</p>