Efc = 0

Paying for College
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<p>*Their point was that private schools have the large endowment money at their disposal and not to be afraid to apply to one of these schools. It was a very informative workshop. *</p>

<p>Their point is too “broad brushed”. Only a small number of privates have large endowments. The majority of privates have small endowments. </p>

<p>I’m not even sure that Boston College necessarily gives each 0 EFC student that is accepted a $40k grant. BC might be selective as to WHO they offer such largesse. Some schools are more generous to particular students that have high stats or add to their diversity numbers. </p>

<p>A school may be need-blind, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they will meet the need of every student with minimal loans.</p>

<p>Again, only a small number of privates have deep pocket endownments (and some endowments have shrunk during these poor economic times), so be sure to only apply to those that say they meet 100% of need with little or no loans.</p>

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<p>“Basically, no, it doesn’t mean that you’ll get a free ride, but yes, you can do well, especially if you make sure you apply to a range of schools, especially ones that you’re a strong match for <em>and</em> some that you’re a reach for,”</p>

<p>You can do well only if you’re among the small group of low income students who have high stats. By “high stats” I mean SAT scores of about 1900 and higher and an unweighted gpa of at least 3.5. This is because then, you’d have a shot at the few schools that are able to meet the full demonstrated need of all students, and are able to do that without providing large loans.</p>

<p>These schools are places like Harvard, Amherst, Stanford, which are reach schools for all students, no matter how outstanding the students are. Otherwise, very few colleges – including public universities – are able to meet the full need of their accepted students. Some that do meet the full need do so by offering sky high loans, something that is unwise to accept. The only public universities that promise to meet full documented need are UNC, UVA, and perhaps William and Mary, all of which are difficult to gain entrance to, and especially are difficult for out of state students to be accepted to.</p>

<p>Assuming that your stats are more in line with the 98% of other college-bound students, probably your best bet is to live at home and go to your local community college for 2 years, and then transfer to an in-state public, preferably one that provides merit and need-based aid to in-state transfer students.</p>

<p>This is what many students – including many middle class students – have to do to be able to afford college without having to take out extremely large loans. Most college students take out a total of $17 k in loans to pay for their college education. Hard as this is for middle class students, doing so is even harder for poor students, who probably won’t be able to get help from their families when they leave college and go into the work world and need a car, apartment, furniture, etc.</p>

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<p>UVA has Access UVA program where families with incomes under $40K are met with full COA, no loans. This included OOS. WM has their Gateway program. Similar but only in-state students qualify. Not much assistance for OOS></p>

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<p>North Carolina State University has the Pack Promise which provides full COA for in-state and out of state low income students. This usually includes a small loan of no more than $2500 per year.</p>

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<p>^^^
^^^^</p>

<p>what are their deadlines for apps?</p>

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<p>*Assuming that your stats are more in line with the 98% of other college-bound students, probably your best bet is to live at home and go to your local community college for 2 years, and then transfer to an in-state public, preferably one that provides merit and need-based aid to in-state transfer students.
*</p>

<p>True…unless a SUNY/CUNY will meet most of need thru a variety of aid/scholarships, etc.</p>

<p>Collegebound…what are your stats? Are they high enough that you might get a merit scholarship from Buffalo or another SUNY or CUNY that gives freshmen scholarships?</p>

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<p>Well out of the three private schools D heard from so far the lowest merit based scholarship was $11,500. D GPA is 93 ACT 25 URM, out of the SUNYs so far she has heard from New Paltz who didnt mention anything about merit aid in her acceptance package but I’m not sure how the state schools notify about merit aid but like I said the state school tuition is so low between Pell, TAp, ACG etc the tuition should be manageable, the private schools are more of a concern for us. We are waiting to see if she is eligible for Fordham Universitys HEOP program and Cornell HEOP program, both departments requested financial information from us that we have provided, if she gets into either of those two programs then tuition is not an issue so obviously our fingers are crossed for those two haha, great posts you guys, you have been really helpful keep em coming!</p>

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<p>Well out of the three private schools D heard from so far the lowest merit based scholarship was $11,500. D GPA is 93 ACT 25 URM,</p>

<p>What privates are they? Cornell? Fordham? and ?</p>

<p>Which URM is she? That can make a difference at some schools. In NY, there are many Hispanic kids, so that may not be much of an advantage. Being AA, could be an advantage.</p>

<p>Which school is her financial safety school?</p>

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<p>Northstarmom: I don’t think UCSC is in the same ballpark with the Ivies, and yet my son turned down a full ride (no loans, no work study, all grants, with 1K a semester in travel/books/incidentals money) for another full ride at a school that is a great LAC, but not necessarily in Ivy league either. He was also offered other very generous aid packages that were not full rides, but met 100 percent of need with grants and work study. He had strong SATs and a good GPA, but almost no APs and very few EC’s. He’s the sort of student that many CCers consider “not worthy” of Ivy admission.</p>

<p>As I’ve said, I know you and other posters are trying to be helpful, but I think you can edge over into purposefully discouraging. My son and I set out to get him a full ride at great fit school, and we did that. I’m doing the same for my daughter; we won’t know how well we’ve succeeded until later this year. No, not every EFC=0 student can expect a full ride, but there is a lot more money available for students than just the Ivies. </p>

<p>Another poster has said flat out on this thread that EFC=0 students should “be sure to only apply to those that say they meet 100% of need with little or no loans.” I’m challenging that. If you can get fee waivers for the application fees, and if you go into the process understanding that you’re going to have to make the final decision based on the aid package, it’s fine to apply to schools that don’t say explicitly that they meet 100% of need with no loans. We were offered great packages from schools that do not claim to do that, and I’m sure other students receive them, too. I’d argue that most school are trying to create economic diversity in their entering student bodies; as a result, though they may not advertise and cannot promise to meet 100 percent of EVERY student’s need, they may very well find money for a <em>particular</em> student, if they feel that student is a good fit. </p>

<p>My daughter got a full tuition scholarship this summer to a program that doesn’t provide full tuition scholarships. If you asked the program, they’d tell you that isn’t something they’re able to provide, that they cannot meet 100% of need and offer only partial tuition scholarships. But they had built a relationship with her as a student, and wanted her to attend the program enough that the financial folks made it happen. My point here is that particularly small LACs – even the ones with small endowments – have a lot of flexibility, and that a school that doesn’t promise to meet the full need of every student may still choose to meet the full need of some students. If the lottery ticket is free, and you understand the odds of your winning the lottery are low, there’s no harm in holding a ticket.</p>

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<p>I think the point is that most kids have a limited number of apps that they will send out. While it’s certainly ok to send a couple to schools that “might” meet need with little or no loans, it isn’t wise to only apply to such schools. </p>

<p>To be safe, a student with a 0 EFC should apply to several schools that meet 100% need with little or no loans. </p>

<p>Are you talking about UC Santa Cruz? I don’t think all 0 EFC kids get full rides to California’s publics including money for travel. That sounds like something a high stats kid would get that also has a 0 EFC. That sounds like some kind of Regents, plus grants, plus Pell, plus Cal Grant, etc.</p>

<p>Some people are lucky to live in states that have state schools that do a better job at meeting need. Some states do not come close to meeting need for their students.</p>

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<p>mom2collegekids: Yup, UCSC was one of son’s safeties, because it had more of the vibe he’d want in a school than other UC’s. Certainly all EFC=0 kids do not get full rides at California publics – which is part of my point. There are plenty of schools that give full rides to a handful of students, but do not advertise themself as meeting 100 percent of need, because they don’t, for most students. (By the way, I wouldn’t say that California does a great job of meeting need for students – the entire university system situation is officially Pretty Freaking Awful this year, because of the budget crisis.)</p>

<p>And we both agree that to be safe, an EFC=0 student should apply to several schools that meet 100% of need and are at the very least moving away from loans, even if they can’t quite say they are completely loan free at that level. I just don’t think that EFC=0 students should limit themselves to ONLY schools meeting 100% of need w/few loans. The most important thing, I feel, is to be realistic about the possibility of having to decline admission for financial reasons.</p>

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<p>TrinSF posted: “Northstarmom: I don’t think UCSC is in the same ballpark with the Ivies, and yet my son turned down a full ride (no loans, no work study, all grants, with 1K a semester in travel/books/incidentals money) for another full ride at a school that is a great LAC, but not necessarily in Ivy league either. He was also offered other very generous aid packages that were not full rides, but met 100 percent of need with grants and work study. He had strong SATs and a good GPA, but almost no APs and very few EC’s. He’s the sort of student that many CCers consider “not worthy” of Ivy admission.”</p>

<p>Here’s what Trin SF had posted on an early thread about her son:
Son’s SAT’s are 780 CR, 680 M, 730 CR, SAT II’s 700 Lit, 740 Math II. His GPA is 3.97 unweighted. "</p>

<p>Her son’s SATs are stellar and are quite unusual for any student, and are even more unusual for a student with a 0 EFC. Although some uninformed people here might have thought that the S had no chance for an Ivy, he actually had a more than average chance for Ivies because he was low income plus had excellent stats.</p>

<p>If the OP has these kind of stats, certainly the OP would have more chances than do most low income students of getting an excellent aid package. If, though, the OP’s stats are more typical of all students, the chances would be very low of getting full financial aid without staggering loans.</p>

<p>It’s important to realize that a background that seems subpar in the rarified air of CC may be exceptional when it comes to the overall pool of college-bound students. </p>

<p>In general, SES is a good predictor of SAT, and low income people tend to score far lower than do high income people, so it is unlikely that the OP has the kind of high stats that would get them into Ivies or garner the type of aid that TrinSF’s son got to UCSC.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>I say with all due respect - you’re nuts!</p>

<p>It’s not the south, it’s Chapel Hill! Sorry, but UNC was my dream school when I was a kid, but it was out of state and my family couldn’t afford it.</p>

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<p>Northstarmom: I think you’re right, it’s the rarefied CC atmosphere. I can’t count how many times people have told me that my son was “not in the ballpark” of high performing students applying to Ivies. In particular, he was originally planning a physics major, but had low math scores for the sorts of schools he’d consider. (A 740 SATII score is much lower percentilewise than it appears.) He was also handicapped by attending a school that was underperforming so badly that it was closed the year he graduated. Thankfully, he’d already transferred for senior year.</p>

<p>I agree that the scores and GPA are an advantage. What I’d also say is that both of my children have been hammered from middle school about how they <em>had</em> to push hard to be strong academic candidates to make the most of the EFC=0. We have an explicit contract: I manage the financials, and they put their full energy behind being the best possible candidate for aid they can be. </p>

<p>Now, the <em>real</em> test will be if my daughter manages a full ride. Her ACT was a 21, and her SAT’s are in that range, as well. Thankfully, she’s building a strong portfolio to compensate.</p>

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<p>^^^</p>

<p>He may never have visited. People who’ve never visited assume all the stereotypes.</p>

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<p>Now, the <em>real</em> test will be if my daughter manages a full ride. Her ACT was a 21, and her SAT’s are in that range, as well. Thankfully, she’s building a strong portfolio to compensate.</p>

<p>That will be tough. </p>

<p>It’s the 0 EFC kids with average stats (ACT 21 is 55 percentile) that have the worst chances at getting the aid they need.</p>

<p>Schools don’t give “free rides” out of the goodness of their hearts. These schools (even ivies) get *something *out of it. Their diversity numbers improve or their average freshman stats improve. </p>

<p>There’s little incentive for a school to be generous to a student whose stats will actually be a drag on their numbers - unless that student can do something for them - play a sport or something like that. I don’t even think a strong portfolio will compensate - unless it’s an art porfolio. If it’s an EC portfolio, I don’t see it compensating.</p>

<p>Is your child a URM? That might help, but doubtful it would be enough for a free-ride.</p>

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<p>mom2collegekids: Yes, it’s an art portfolio. She’s applying to art schools. Which is doubly tough, because you think LACs and public schools don’t give good aid? Ooo, art schools, they’re <em>awful</em> about aid. But a handful have a handful of full scholarships, and she’s courting at least two of those schools pretty aggressively. :-)</p>

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<p>^^^^</p>

<p>I know what you mean about art schools and aid…</p>

<p>There’s another child on CC that’s in a similar situation. That child is going to have to go to a regular university with a good art department.</p>

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<p>IBSenior254 “I got it for University of NC- Chapel Hill” </p>

<p>Interesting, considering UNC is releasing decisions January 31, and no sooner. ■■■■■.</p>

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<p>"Quote:
I got it for University of NC- Chapel Hill. Not a big fan of the south so i dont want to go there.
I say with all due respect - you’re nuts!</p>

<p>It’s not the south, it’s Chapel Hill! Sorry,"</p>

<p>Ditto!
Signed… “paying full price in Durham”…</p>