EFC $6K - but aid packages incl $25K or $35K parent loan?

Paying for College
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<p>thumper1 - Actually some of these “conservatory in a university” schools do offer both merit (academic) and talent. she got a $17K merit/academic and a smaller talent scholarship (the $25K offer). The $43K offer had a small merit ($6500) and the rest is basically us. Or not us. :slight_smile: </p>

<p>We will for sure go to the high school and share this info. For the most part, we had to do our own research since her college search (with auditions) is very, very foreign to her HS Guidance. I wish I knew then what I know now. But isn’t that the case for everything?!</p>

<p>We are waiting for 2 more of the “conservatory/university” financial aid packages, then admission/finan aid results at the end of this month from more broad choices (Ivies and state school). Her academic stats are great - here’s hoping that someone comes to the table with something that will help us. Just feeling discouraged - private colleges are truly catering to the rich, it seems. I’m not even sure we qualify for the “middle class” anymore. </p>

<p>Thanks so much to everyone who’s weighed in - we’ve really learned a lot and appreciate the support. We will go about this very differently for #2 child.</p>

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<p>Does she have a financial safety that she likes and can afford? </p>

<p>If not, then maybe she needs to take a gap year and reapply…otherwise you may find yourself with large loans. Fordham doesnt meet need and isnt great with those with high need. what did the NPC indicate?</p>

<p>thumper…I realize that this is a dance student, but I bet the school has told students or parents not to worry about price because of FA. Dance or no dance, that is bad advice.</p>

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<p>That’s is EXACTLY what we were told - “don’t worry about the sticker price - because you will qualify for financial aid”. We shouldn’t have been so naive. It was a very overwhelming first-college experience.</p>

<p>And this being a dance kid, her “safeties” are an Ivy, a sister-to-an Ivy and another super-hard-to-get-into school - but all three do meet financial aid (and have a dance component)…IF you can get into them. She has stated she’d rather not go to the state school. But she may prefer that to being at home. :)</p>

<p>Fordham was for sure a stretch, and a happy, take-your-breath-away surprise she was admitted, too. We did know about the financial aid situation at Fordham prior to auditioning. I wouldn’t trade the experiences we’ve had with her auditioning, it was an important exercise for her to do to see how she fared. And she did great. We’re very proud of that. I wish this country valued the arts more - but THAT is for a different discussion.</p>

<p>:)</p>

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<p>My son got a lot of arts scholarships when he applied to colleges, but the biggest one was $5K and the sticker price was $50K or so those days. It’s what you have to pay that counts, not how much you get. </p>

<p>Did you run some NPC numbers for the tow schools that guarantee to meet need to see what they define as need for you? </p>

<p>If things are truly not doable, rather than going to a local school, a gap year and going through the process with better picks might be an idea to consider. If she has stats that make her within range of an Ivy league school, there are schools that would come up with money. SUNY Buffalo has some very good scholarships for such out of staters, an excellent dance program and merit money for dancers to boot, for example.</p>

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<p>Yes, and it was around what our EFC was - about $6K. </p>

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<p>I find that most high school guidance counselors do not understand financial aid. When I worked at an undergrad school, I spoke at many financial aid nights, and I can tell you that I was very honest about gapping. When I spoke to parents at my school’s accepted student meetings, I was also very honest about what their financial aid packages really meant. I don’t know how popular this was with the admissions folks, because as a result of my talk, some parents decided that community college for 2 years would be a wise choice. I just think it’s best to lay it all out for people to really understand what they are up against. I went to my share of talks where the college reps said not to worry about aid … that everything would fall into place. These were need-meeting schools, and they were not being dishonest. They simply failed to point out that the family must be able (and willing) to pay the calculated EFC and that their package may contain a lot of loans. This is all well and good if the family understands the whole financial aid process … and if they don’t somehow still think the money gods are going to magically rain dollar bills on them. The reality is, though, that most people don’t understand. CC is a very good resource, but it only reaches some people, and often too late in the process. </p>

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<p>Safeties are schools with extremely probable acceptance for the student, that are affordable, and that the student would attend happily if accepted.</p>

<p>The safeties noted above are NOT safeties. They are reaches for acceptance for most students. Add into that the audition component and really there ARE no true safeties in the same sense as for other students. It is impossible to predict from year to year the strength of the audition pools at each school.</p>

<p>At places like the Ivies, one also has to meet the academic admission criteria. </p>

<p>We were in a similar boat with regards to admissions for our musician. He was accepted to two rolling admission schools well before Christmas of his senior year with his performance merit award as well. Those were his “safeties”. He was in, and the costs were affordable with the aid received…and either school would have been fine had he not gotten accepted elsewhere. THAT is what a safety school needs to be.</p>

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<p>I agree that none of the schools the OP has discussed are true safeties. The student seems to be an extraordinarily gifted young woman, both in dance and in the academics. Many of the performing arts programs that are part of a university do heavily consider the academic part of the application, and merit money is often given on academics for those audtioning as well as for the arts. </p>

<p>I mentioned SUNY Buffalo as a case in point. Some nice merit awards based on the academic numbers, plus a performing arts scholarship are in the picture. </p>

<p>So, the safety here might be a local option which the OP has alluded to. I don’t know how generous UMass is. Those schools on the list that guarantee to meet full need, absolutely are not safeties with the type of admission criteria they have. </p>

<p>At some schools a performer has to make three cuts for it to work. S/he has to be accepted to the school itself in terms of academic standards (test scores and grades), there is the audition to get into some programs and then whether the school will give enough financial/merit aid to make the numbers work. Good luck to the OP’s DD. Do let us know how this works out. It should be soon that you find out.</p>

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<p>Just a heads up on the idea of applying for a lot of local scholarships–they are generally relatively small in amount, and they are not renewable–so they may help this year, but not necessarily in future years.</p>

<p>Will the fact that you no longer need to pay for all of your daughter’s dance lessons help meet the financial burden, in that you can reallocate the funds you have been paying to her studios over they years? I found that no longer paying the expenses of my son’s travel soccer team put more money than I had realized back in to my budget.</p>

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<p>While I understand the OP’s shock and disappointment in the offers her D has received, I think she did go about the search in the right way. UMass is the safety. She applied to some big reaches (the Ivies) but if those work out academically, they most likely will work out financially too. Her ‘matches’ really were matches for admissions, but just haven’t worked out financially. THAT’s how it usually is (very sad, but true). What else could OP have done? Where else could she have applied that would be better than UMass, but not as expensive as the NY schools?</p>

<p>I have a daughter going into theater so have been reading the CC drama/theater forums, and there are kids applying everywhere from Utah to NYC, big schools and small, because they have no idea where they’ll get in. Getting accepted into the drama department (or dance/MT) is more important to them than whether they will be in Montana or Florida. It’s just a different process, but just as difficult as trying to get accepted into an Ivy (plus they have to get accepted into the college itself too).</p>

<p>OP, you have a right to feel sad (and a little shocked over the costs), but I don’t see where you could have avoided the situation you are in (except being a little better informed on the costs). It is what it is. She tried everywhere she could, and now just has to hope for the Ivies/money. She should, however, be okay with the safety of UMass. Because of the consortium, she can take classes at the other schools and maybe those will have hidden gems for her in dance or other classes. Another option is a gap year. Several of the drama kids have done that, and after no acceptances applying out of high school, many report much stronger acceptance rates after a year of just acting or music classes, a little waiting tables, and just another year of maturity.</p>

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<p>thumper1 : I KNOW what a “safety” is - I was being facetcious. I KNOW that her “safeties” are not true safeties - for HER they are second string schools as far as dance goes. Whether she can GET into them academically is, of course, the question. And for us? Almost NO school is “affordable” as even the state schools in Mass are $24K with questionable aid. We do whatever is possible for our kids - I cannot even fathom how families begin to afford sending their kids to some of these private colleges. It’s not for lack of trying on our part, believe me. </p>

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<p>towinanddone : Thank you for understanding. Unless you have a performing art kid (music/theater/dance), it’s very, difficult to explain what this search is like. DD has danced since the age of 3, and yes, is a gifted dancer and an extraordinarily smart kid (and yes, I know we all think that about our kids - we should!). </p>

<p>There is not a lot of support our there for parents like us. We had to make it up as we went along (lots of thread reading on Ballet Talk - but there’s very little “what do we do/how do we afford this?” talk on that site). If it was up to her, she would have just applied to schools with dance programs. We encouraged her to think bigger picture - what would she do WITH her passion for dance and AFTER a possible career? So she included a generous in-state private (Amherst College) and an in-state safety (UMass Amherst), and 2 ivy/ivy sisters that would get her IN NYC (you can guess what that is - but I don’t even want to type those names - we do understand what an incredible long shot they are).</p>

<p>For a kid like her - all the audition programs were long shots. 600 kids audition for a spot in the Fordham/Alvin Ailey program, their incoming freshman class is usually about 30-35. THAT is the biggest program - others have on average 18-22 slots open for freshman. 18-22! Insane! So she is used to that sort of reach.</p>

<p>HS Guidance had NO idea what to do with a kid like her. Went to several college fairs, none of them pertinent to her. When asked, they said “Yes! We have a dance team!” (which to a dancer is NOT the same thing!).</p>

<p>The heartbreaking thing is this: so she got IN to 4 of the top programs in the US, and we are so, so proud of her for that. She’s worked exceedingly hard and earned everyone of those acceptances (and all those programs have rigorous academic hurdles you need to leap FIRST)…but if we cannot afford them - there is no big enough yard sale for us to raise the money as we’ve done every year to help pay the dance studio bills. </p>

<p>So we wait. Fingers crossed, stomach in knots. I think there was no other way we could have done this - she HAD to audition for those programs - she HAD to see how she did. This is the reality of this world, too. There are many who dance, with no financial boundaries. And then there are kids like her who work and work their way through. </p>

<p>We just hope someone will give her to opportunity to keep dancing - in some way.</p>

<p>Thanks - we should know some answers this week and I will post. These discussions have been very helpful - given us lots to think about… </p>

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<p>There are little known schools that have great dance departments that would ante up sizeable scholarships for someone with great academic stats. No, they are not the very top of the top in terms of rating, reputation, recognition, but they are way up there relatively and turn out great dancers. Buffalo is an example, because I know about it. OP’s dd has the advantage of having both this incredible talent AND the academic stats, so one can capitalize on that. Money for the stats and getting into the program through the auditions. Some schools that are not so well known for those of us mainstream do have specialty departments that are way up there in what they offer. </p>

<p>That is the gap that I perceive in the OP’s list, though i am hoping that UMass gives her a generous award due to her stats and that the the highly selective schools count her dance heavily as a hook in the EC area, and accept her with a very nice aid package. </p>

<p>My friend’s daughter has been ekeing her way through a voice program with loans and payments that are weighing very heavily on her mother. She really should have applied to her flagship U which does have a very good voice department. Is it as well known as Manhattan School of Music of the Westminster Choir College, or other such programs that she considered over that? Maybe not, but it would have be FREE tuition for her, FREE, and the program does have its standouts. It’s not horrible. It’s quite good and she would have been a top performer there. I think she made a mistake not even considering it. With a son in the arts, I’ve seen this a lot. Yes, Ithaca College, for example might have a top program, but if you can’t get the money, the very big $s to go there, is it worth it when you can go to the voice department of some smaller state unis that might give you enough money so that what’s left is about $10K? One of the kids knew with a wonderful voice went to Liberty U–it was nearly free for him, and an enthusiastic aunt threw in bucks for him to go there. He went to Eastman for graduate studies, all paid, and that was something he felt he needed to do anyways and was prepared just fine at Liberty, hardly a voice performance school for the rigor of a top conservatory school. There are many paths to take. My friend’s DD is talking grad studies and she and her mom owe a veritable fortune for her to be at a private college with a voice program that she felt she had to have. Some of her peers from high school are applying to the same master’s programs from schools and will not have the debt she has. It does become an issue. Dancers, singers, and other performing art folks often have lean years while they audition and try to get jobs using their art. Loans have no place in that scenario.</p>

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<p>Yeah - we sure don’t want her to be graduating with an enormous debt - especially if she is going down that altruistic/dance path. :slight_smile: </p>

<p>What are the other smaller schools you’ve heard of? Interested to know if they were on our list.</p>

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<p>I don’t know how high your D’s stats are, but Temple University has automatic academic scholarships, including full scholarships for 1400 (Reading and Math) SAT and 3.75 GPA. It has a dance program that is well regarded enough, but more importantly perhaps it is well located. In addition to having an arts scene of its own, Philadelphia is pretty easily accessible (less than a 2 hour train ride) to NYC. I believe Temple has a rolling admission policy.</p>

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<p>Hmmm. Her GPA is over 4. And SATs are 2100+. Will have to take a look. </p>

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<p>NPC says we’d be responsible for $20K - deadline was March 1st.</p>

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<p>At this point, I think you would be coming up against application deadlines, financial aid deadlines. Plus auditions probably have all taken place.</p>

<p>Doesn’t Goucher have a good dance program?</p>

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<p>Email or call Temple to see if they’d still have time for a high-stats applicant with a very strong dancing background… You never know.
Same thing for Goucher.</p>

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<p>Some of the schools are not smaller schools. Some are state unis that just aren’t well known for their performing arts department, but they have very fine facilities, certainly able to give a talented dancer what is needed. In fact, being one of the most talented in such a pool might be a good thing. Like nearly any major state university with a dance department. It might be a good idea to take a gap year and redo the process if your DD truly ends up with no viable option. </p>

<p>Look at Temple, look at UBuff. Call the dance dept head , tell them where she has auditioned and been accepted, what her academic stats are, and what kind of package she would need to go there. </p>

<p>Goucher is a long shot, though they have turned up on the May1 lists as having some financial aid left. The problem with Goucher or any school that costs $50-60K a year, the chances of getting enough money to make it work is very small because so much is needed. A $30K award is still going to leave a tremendous gap. </p>

<p>Hofstra is a possibility. If you PM me, I might be able to give you a contact there. They do have very generous scholarships for high stats and an excellent performing arts department including dance.</p>