EFC and 2nd Student

Paying for College
1

<p>My EFC is 15k. D1's college is 12k tuition and 8.5k R&B.<br>
This year I'm paying the 15k and she's got loans of 5.5 sub & unsubbed.
D2 wants to go same college. My financial situation will be basically the same next year.
My calculations, which could totally be wrong, are that each daughter will have
an 7.5k EFC + 5.5 fed loan = 13K, making each 7.5k short of money. So, does this
mean I/daughters need to come up with another 15K next year?</p>

<p>This is an Ohio public university. I asked about work-study for my daughter and was told all jobs were given out to those with an EFC=0. Many families have an EFC of Zero, but the student still pays a lot by doing work-study and fed loans. Yes, daughter can work outside WS programs, but all that would raise my EFC to an even higher amount.</p>

<p>So, at this point, did I make mistake by letting D1 go to current college? I feel o.k about the EFC of 15k, but don't think paying anymore is realistic. Should I lead D2 to more affordable schools or does someone have any other ideas?</p>

2

<p>You are correct that, assuming all information being the same for next year, one more child in college will mean that each child has a 7.5K EFC. You would be expected to pay the same $15k, half per child.</p>

<p>The problem is: Just because your EFC is halved for each child does NOT mean the aid will increase accordingly. You are in the “trap” - meaning your EFC is too high for federal grants & very often too high for institutional grants - so you will end up with a “gap” in aid packages. </p>

<p>Let’s assume the cost is still 20.5K next year. If D1 has an EFC of 7.5K but no grants are available at your EFC level, her package may well consist of 4500 sub (assuming she is a sophomore next year), 2000 unsub, and 14000 Parent PLUS loan. D2 would have 3500 sub, 2000 unsub, and 15000 PLUS loan. Of course, your school might have grants to cover the gap of $6500 D1/$7500 D2 — but you can’t know this for sure. </p>

<p>I suggest you contact the school’s financial aid office to have a discussion.</p>

3

<p>

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<p>Students do have their own income protection allowance for FAFSA. For this year, it’s $4500 (plus Social Security and income taxes paid).</p>

<p>Does OH offer any state aid that would kick in when your EFC is lower?</p>

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<p>That’s tough having two so close together. The older one should look into any departmental scholarships in her major if she’s got a decent GPA. The younger one should look for local scholarships to help chip away at that gap. Every little bit helps. Unfortunately cutting the EFC in half doesn’t mean two for one. Believe me I also have 2 overlapping a year and its killer. If D2 gets accepted then I would call finaid and ask them for ideas, also. They may not have any, but it never hurts. One of mine got W/S the other didin’t but was put on a wait list for W/S for second semester. My older one moved off campus and it does help as it does cost less then room and board on campus.</p>

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<p>If they will both be going to the same school, would it be worth looking into an off-campus apartment for them that they could share? If rental rates are relatively cheap around the school, they/you might save quite a bit on room & board if they share an apartment and cook most of their own meals.</p>

<p>Just an idea…</p>

6

<p>Sk8rmom, Are you saying if she only netted 4500, paid income tax of $10 and Social Security of $300, she could Gross $4810 and that would all be excluded from FAFSA?</p>

<p>She earned about 2k this year total before college, but probably won’t earn as much next year. She did receive a $1k scholarship, and is taking one more course(which is just a full load to graduate in 4 years) than her freshman roomies, but is swamped with workload currently. Maybe next semester, she could do some temp work.</p>

<p>D2 is almost 2 years younger but only 1 year behind in school. She didn’t work any this year as she had wisdom teeth out, finished learning to drive and had sports activities. Plus nobody seemed to be hiring 16-years olds, now 17. She does have some AP college credit, enough to qualify for one semester. Hope her ACT/SAT tests may provide some money, but I know some other students(Medical & Engineering majors) with higher scores last year who received zero offers from any Ohio university. I think Ohio is in bad shape and not getting better.</p>

<p>Mom6350, That is a good idea. I will have to investigate further…</p>

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<p>Yes, daughter can work outside WS programs, but all that would raise my EFC to an even higher amount.</p>

<p>It may not make any difference whether EFC goes up because of work outside of W/S.</p>

<p>You’re not going to get more need-based aid from a state school. Even with EFC split, your EFC is too high for fed grants…which is all the free aid that most publics can give anyway. Your Ds can still get loans since the "real"COA is more than $20,500 (the real COA is probably about $25k.)</p>

<p>So, if your split EFC is $7500, but it goes up to - say - $10,000 each because of part time jobs, who cares? You’re not going to get need-based grants from this school anyway.</p>

<p>*did I make mistake by letting D1 go to current college? *</p>

<p>Maybe, maybe not. many parents wrongly assume that they will have to pay less when their 2nd child goes to college without realizing that the schools don’t meet need and don’t have much aid to give so the reduced EFC is meaningless.</p>

<p>The term EFC is misleading. Colleges don’t have to do ANYTHING with that number except determine whether you qualify for free fed grants for low EFCs, work study, and student loans. They don’t have to use that number to give you grants to meet need. It’s a rather powerless number for those with EFCs higher than Pell amounts.</p>

<p>If your 2nd D goes to the same school without any merit, then it’s very likely that you’ll be expected to pay all costs except for the two loans. If that happens, you will likely regret letting child #1 set the trend of going there.</p>

<p>However… :slight_smile: all is not lost IF child #2 has high stats that could get merit at OTHER good schools. </p>

<p>What are her SAT/ACT scores?</p>

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<p>Donald, yes that is what I’m saying. The EFC formula assesses a certain percentage of Available Income (AI) which is the total of taxable and untaxed income minus the total of tax allowances, taxes paid, and the $4500 income protection allowance. You can see exactly how the EFC formula works by looking at the worksheets and tables marked A at this link:
<a href=“http://ifap.ed.gov/efcformulaguide/attachments/111609EFCFormulaGuide20102011.pdf[/url]”>http://ifap.ed.gov/efcformulaguide/attachments/111609EFCFormulaGuide20102011.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>As the other posters have said, if your D’s school doesn’t offer institutional need-based aid, it probably doesn’t matter if her EFC increases. The EFC for your younger D will not be affected by her sister’s earnings.</p>

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<p>To Mom2collegekids: You said:
Your Ds can still get loans since the "real"COA is more than $20,500 (the real COA is probably about $25k.)</p>

<p>When you say D can still get loans, do you mean parents can get a PLUS loan?
Isn’t D still limited to her 5500 total sub&unsubbed loans? And 6500 both type next year?</p>

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<p>I believe what she meant was that, even if your EFC increased due to D1’s earnings, her loan eligibility would not be affected. Since it sounds like the only “aid” you’re getting is loans, there’s really nothing to be lost by having her work a non-WS job.</p>

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<p>This was my thought process…</p>

<p>You were concerned that if your Ds worked during the summer and school year, their EFCs would raise. I was saying that it won’t matter because they wouldn’t get more aid anyway from their school. </p>

<p>So, even if after working, each girl’s EFC really went up, they wouldn’t lose their ability to take out student loans (which is their only financial aid available to them) since the school’s “real” COA is really much higher.</p>

<p>I can see why my post was a bit confusing.</p>

<p>You’re in a pickle unless your Ds can earn a good bit of money or you can come up with more money. Does their mom work? If not, can she work to help cover their education?</p>

<p>If your second D has high stats, maybe she can go elsewhere on a big scholarship. I know that may not seem fair, since she wants to go to the same school, but sadly, it sounds like your family didn’t understand that you’d have to pay for when you have 2 kids in college.</p>

<p>Are your second D’s stats high enough for big merit somewhere?</p>

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<p>*did I make mistake by letting D1 go to current college? *</p>

<p>Unless your family can come up with more money (from you, their mother, girls working good paying jobs, Parent Plus loans) or your second D can get some big merit scholarship to another school, then the answer is probably yes.</p>

<p>I would sit my Ds down, “man up,” and admit that perhaps an error was made when it was decided that D1 could go to her school (which D2 now wants to go to). Explain that you didn’t understand how the FA process works at most schools and therefore it won’t be affordable to send both girls to this one school.</p>

<p>Obviously, it’s not fair to say that D1 can still go to her choice, while D2 has to go to some CC or local state school because there’s no money for her. Right?</p>

<p>So, the family will have to brainstorm to figure out how costs will get covered. If no solution can be had, then perhaps neither D can go to that school and both will have to commute to a local state school.</p>

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<p>What are Ohio’s state grants like? They may apply to higher income/EFC levels and provide some relief. Also, your older D should certainly be prepared to take out her full sophomore Stafford of $6500 which will cut the shortage down a bit. But, if they can agree to live off campus that may help considerably…it was a real eye-opener when we finally calculated that it’s $300/week to live and eat on campus - and that’s for a triple! Depending on the area, it may be much less for the two of them to rent an apartment nearby. Finally, many families expect their kids to work and pay for their own books, personal expenses, travel, etc…I think it can be overwhelming for a freshman to work at school, depending on the courseload, but after that it’s often a grade-booster.</p>

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<p>I don’t think they qualify for Ohio grants…</p>

<p>*Eligible students must have an Expected Family Contribution (EFC) of 2190 or less *</p>

<p>It sounds like this student is at MiamiU. Why is MiamiU’s tuition so much more than OSU’s???</p>

<p>I think MiamiU does give merit scholarships, so if d2 has good stats, than maybe she can get a scholarship.</p>

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<p>^Ugh…that’s even worse than the federal cutoffs! Note to self…stay in NY til all kids graduate!</p>

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<p>The tuition at Miami is $12K for OH residents. Tuition for tOSU is $9.5K. Miami is supposed to be the LAC like public school in OH so it’s a little bit higher than the other public Us. There are other much more affordable schools in the state.</p>

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<p>^^^</p>

<p>That just seems weird to me. Why would a public LAC cost more? What does it offer that Ohio State doesn’t offer? </p>

<p>Anyway…$12,798 is high tuition for an instate. </p>

<p>Ohio St…$9,420 is $3k cheaper.</p>

<p>If both girls went to Ohio St, the family would save $6k per year right there!</p>

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<p>Thank you all so much. I think I’m finally am getting it. It is Miami U. The COA is higher than the tuition and R&B numbers I used, but was trying to simply it somewhat. D1 did receive 1K in scholarship aid. Whoopee!!! She had 3.7 GPA but was only average on ACT. Our family is pretty frugal or as my kids would say, Dad is CHEAP!. Our personal expenses are less or our COA could easily be 25k per year. </p>

<p>Miami U seems to be trying to combine best of a state school and a private college. D1 tells us she likes it there. We’ll have to see. The mother of a roommate works at Notre Dame and as a benefit they would pay for her daughter to attend Notre Dame or half of tuition at another college. It’s funny that even though she is out of state, she pays a lot less than us. Wish I worked for Notre Dame! Miami U does require students to live on campus first two years and have a meal plan at least the first year.</p>

<p>D1’s friend went to Ohio State and was a Valedictorian and the college gave her ZERO.</p>

<p>So back to the financial. If my daughters could each earn $7k next year(3,500 WS and 3500 summer job), and they could still get the $5500-6500 in sub/unsub loans, that’s close to 15K. And I get the wife another part-time job. She was doing demo’s at stores but that really dried up last year. Maybe we’re not too bad and could pull it off. </p>

<p>I would like for her to have a job on campus next year. D1 is carrying a full load to graduate in four years and I get the feeling too swamped right now to work anything. Maybe after this first semester she’ll have it more under control…</p>

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<p>Could the younger one take a gap year? That could help with the overlap. </p>

<p>I’ve also heard of students taking a leave of absence from their home colleges while they work and take classes at a cheaper school. (Many students are gone for a semester or two for study abroad, anyways, so not being on campus for(part of) junior year isn’t that strange.)</p>

20

<p>I would see if I could get a waiver to get the girls in off-campus housing - pleading affordability. </p>

<p>*So back to the financial. If my daughters could each earn $7k next year(3,500 WS and 3500 summer job), and they could still get the $5500-6500 in sub/unsub loans, that’s close to 15K. And I get the wife another part-time job. She was doing demo’s at stores but that really dried up last year. Maybe we’re not too bad and could pull it off. *</p>

<p>If your wife isn’t currently working, then that really could be a source of money. It’s probably very necessary for her to work to bring in some money. </p>

<p>It’s too much to expect the girls to each earn $7k per year and have it ALL go to direct school costs. They will need some of that money for their own pocket money, clothing, etc.</p>