EFC Calculations - OUCH!!!

<p>I have another question … how closely are your EFCs matching up to Net Price Calculators? For us, the EFC would be a moot point at our in-state public - according to the NPCs, we would get nothing and it’s well over our EFC. A few of the privates come close to meeting our EFC (without loans) but most are completely loan based. Again, we’re lucky since we have the tuition exchange that leaves just fees, room, and board (though she may not get tuition exchange at every school, she does have a few offers in hand), and that’s not reflected on the NPC. Rather makes up for the low academic salary.</p>

<p>LoveMyPuppies - on the FAFSA you don’t include retirement accounts or your primary house, and investments/assets with a value of under $37,000ish are excluded. I think the CSS does include them. Perhaps schools that use the FAFSA instead of CSS will be better for you. BTW, FAFSA was actually easier than I thought it would be (though I did spend several hours estimating income and figuring out what counts where), and we were immediately e-mailed back with our estimated EFC.</p>

<p>My parent’s AGI was a little over 110K, and I got an EFC of 63K, which I think is insane! My family is supposed to be able to afford paying 57% of their pretax yearly income for one year of college?!</p>

<p>The problem with the 529s being in the parents name is that if there are multiple children in the family, ALL of the 529 funds are included in the 5.6% of asset EFC number by FAFSA. For PROFILE purposes ANY assets in ANY of the family children’s accounts are counted as parental assets. </p>

<p>In our situation, we did save money for college, but not enough to pay what many private colleges are charging these days. I never thought the cost would go up this high. I was sure the ceiling would have been hit at $40-45K. Nope. We are up $20K over that in some series. By the time my youngest goes, we could be looking easily at over $75K a year for top priced private schools, with some OOS flagships edging up to those prices. </p>

<p>What we have done, is use savings, and we did have our kids save as well–every bit helps, cut back–we don’t live like most people in our income bracket, community, work colleagues (drive a junker car and have just one, plan trips so gas costs are as low as possible, no high cost vacations, no new furniture, very little shopping at all, inexpensive clothing and other goods), and we have taken out some loans against our 401 Ks and PLUS to spread costs over 10 years instead of 4. We’ve also limited our son’s college costs. We can pay so much (and that amount is really a little more than what we really should be spending). That eliminates any full cost private colleges. I don’t know what we would have done if any of our kids got into Harvard or such schools since we would not be eligible for financial aid for them and they are over the threshhold. If they truly wanted to do it, the only option would be for us to borrow for them and for them to take out loans privately from us, and for us to just hope they could pay them back. Thus far our kids have been loan free. The one loan my one son had to take this year, DH and I have set funds aside to repay it, as it is a small amount. At what “prestige” or “dream school” point we would do this, we don’t know. Thus far, my kids have just thrown out any schools that our outside the affordabilty range. The one who went to a private LAC got merit money to bring the cost down to that level, and also worked part time during the year, lived in cheap off campus digs, worked crazy hours during the summer and got outside scholarships freshman year and a grant junior and senior year for research work. </p>

<p>Also EFC is really the official number that FAFSA generates. For most of us the NPCs for private schools will come out with far higher numbers.</p>

<p>The NPCs that I have seen are most accuarte at schools that guarantee to meet full need and have no merit awards. So if you are looking at a school that does have merit money and does not meet the full need fo their students, it isn’t going to be close Also NPCs are not so close to EFCs when you have situations such as money in sibling accounts, NCP situations, a lot of home equity, you own a business, or have anything unusual going on. </p>

<p>Fairness is not an issue here. It is not a fair process from the get go. So yes, if your neighbor has spent his money like crazy each year and not saved a dime, and you have set up college accounts and paid down your mortgage, with the same annual income and schools, his kids will likely get more financial aid. The hit is blunted a bit in that the % of assets is around 5.6%] but when you consider you get the hit each year with each kid taking at least 4 years,…well, I have 5 kids so you do the math.</p>

<p>patriots…either you made a big mistake or your parents have a lot of assets.</p>

<p>If they don’t have a lot of assets, then check your inputs. You may have put your parents income under student income.</p>

<p>How can we send our son to a private school with this EFC [$48k]? In contrast the same numbers entered into Harvard’s calculator produced 17K EFC That is just not fair.</p>

<p>Well, attending a private univ is a luxury, not a necessity. When we choose luxuries, we usually have to pay for them. I don’t mean to sound harsh, that’s just a reality.</p>

<p>That said, if your child has the stats for Harvard, then he has the stats to get some good merit awards from other schools…like Tulane, Santa Clara, etc. Those merit awards would get costs well below your EFC.</p>

<p>You can’t look at Harvard’s estimates to determine what is fair or not. H has a super duper endowment. Technically, all kids could go for free.</p>

<p>Be sure to avoid FAFSA mistakes: [7</a> Tips to Avoid FAFSA Errors - The College Solution (usnews.com)](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/the-college-solution/2011/01/11/7-tips-to-avoid-fafsa-errors]7”>http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/the-college-solution/2011/01/11/7-tips-to-avoid-fafsa-errors)</p>

<p>

I never understand this approach to child rearing. Yes, college costs a lot more than most of us anticipated it would when our kids were born–but we’ve all had 17+ years to save up a least something for our kids’ educations. And many kids with college plans have been working–babysitting and yard work before they were 16, real jobs after–to help contribute.

That’s was your choice. If having four kids made you unable to save up for college, why should the government or a school bear that burden instead?</p>

<p>We have at least fifty of these threads every year.
It is sobering.
But the above posters are correct, expenses are not just paid out of current income, but savings & loans.</p>

<p>Is there a place to filter schools by the forms they use? All the schools on son’s dreamlist use profile.</p>

<p>Patriots87, maybe your parents have large assets or investment real estate? And I thought ours was the worst case scenario.</p>

<p>Mom2collegekids,</p>

<p>All I’m saying is that comparing Cornell to Harvard should not produce such difference in EFC, they are both profile schools.</p>

<p>I will say, however, that the way the costs are still rising, even with the economy the way it has been and so many out of work does frighten me. As I said before, I had expected some sort of plateau years before this.</p>

<p>Lovemypuppies, Harvard is in a category unto itself in terms of financial aid. There are a handful of schools that can give aid close to how Harvard calculates need. There are differences among the PROFILE schools, that can be big ones. Schools called the 568 school cap Home Equity at a lot lower percent of pay. Some schools do not give out loans at all, Most schools do not give all or even most of their students full need. NPC parent info can be used differently. Some schools will take sibling private school costs into consideration. So even among PROFILE schools you can get a big difference in what the definition of need is for you and even more of a difference in what the schools will give to meet it.</p>

<p>I had the same shock. Parents make between 60-70k and our efc is 27k (only child). That’s almost half of our income. To make things worse we barley have savings because 3 years ago we made less than 45k and then dad got two promotions.
I feel your pain and sometimes feel college is not really encouraging for students like us.</p>

<p>MommaJ…without knowing our family situation, you have a lot of nerve to come in with your attitude. Never once did I suggest the government or school should have to bear the burden of paying for our children to attend college. </p>

<p>We have been saving for their college education, and the boys that are old enough do have jobs and are saving money. My point is that almost ALL colleges are quickly pricing themselves out of range for almost everyone except the richest. Or the poorest that qualify for financial aid. </p>

<p>I have been out of college for 25 years now, and it amazes me how much tuition has gone up in that time. And the harsh reality of life is that our cost of living has basically doubled in the past 15 years–look at the cost of food, gas, utilities in 1998 and now. But the numbers that the schools and government use to calculate EFC don’t seem to keep pace with reality.</p>

<p>I would love to show you our budget numbers (but I won’t be posting those), and see if you could tell me where these savings are supposed to appear from.</p>

<p>I had the same shock. Parents make between 60-70k and our efc is 27k (only child). That’s almost half of our income. To make things worse we barley have savings because 3 years ago we made less than 45k and then dad got two promotions.
I feel your pain and sometimes feel college is not really encouraging for students like us.
</p>

<p>???</p>

<p>Something is wrong. If you don’t have much in savings, then your EFC should NOT be that high for a family of 3 (2 adults/1 child) with an income of $60k-70k. </p>

<p>Your EFC should be about $12k or so. </p>

<p>Look over your inputs. Sounds like you indicated that the student is earning a lot.</p>

<p>We are both professionals. My ENTIRE income (every penny) went to fund the private school costs for our college kids. DH’s income paid the rest of the bills and my income paid for college. Yes…we paid out of current earnings. We also scrimped a lot for the 7 years we had kids in college. Our family contribution was high because our incomes were high…but we always planned to fund college this way. I know it doesn’t work for everyone, but it worked for us.</p>

<p>^I work part time (about 30%). My entire income doesn’t cover our federal income taxes. I try not to think about it like that. Pretty depressing if I do.</p>

<p>“My point is that almost ALL colleges are quickly pricing themselves out of range for almost everyone except the richest. Or the poorest that qualify for financial aid.”</p>

<p>Yeah, I sort of thought that about the poorest. Til I witnessed the low-income kids --some REALLY bright/talented–who got offered grants, merit, etc but still had gaps that were absolutely unfillable for their families. Gaps that those with more assets and income could cover with a loan are gaps that can be a chasm that those with lower income cannot possibly fill, if they are unable to qualify for a loan or unlikely to be able to pay one back.</p>

<p>Also, the kids I REALLY feel for are those who have a non-custodial parent who makes a good income but won’t pay anything. They really get a raw deal (though FAFSA only schools can be very helpful to them, these kids don’t always get good advice about this.</p>

<p>I was upset, too, but then I realize in my family’s case, we really are blessed to have good jobs & the wherewithall to make college happen for our kids. Not to say I don’t agree that it’s crazy expensive!</p>

<p>WaitinginCPA, I suspect that easy loans are part of the problem in college costs sky rocketing the way they have. That and the willingness of many families to put themselves and their children out on the financial lim for college costs that they look at as an investment. I’ve known several people actually call it that. Sometimes it is, but when you are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars over what alternative ways to get the same education when you don’t have the money to do so, it is gambling. And too many people are losing that gamble. </p>

<p>We have friends who have had a terrible time financially. Yet they borrowed to send their two kids to private sleep away colleges when the state flagship was a 45 minute commute and they could have gotten a partial tution award to go there. The kids preferred the private colleges, the schools had more name panache, they were smaller and more personal, and a heck of a lot more expensive even with the aid they gave. One kid went there and then on to law school where she borrowed even more, and then left law school half way though, now owing over $100K over the 6 years in school, not to mention the parents owing the same in loans they took. The second kid is 25 and can’t pay his student loans as he doesn’t even work full time. All these years away at school and now he is back at home working for minimum wage and not even full time and not meeting his expenses even, and the parents owe for him too. Both great kids, wonderful family, BUT THEY COULD NOT AFFORD THE COLLEGE GAMBLE THEY TOOK. IT’s not that the kids are doing so terribly, but that the loans are ticking away at interest rates that will be doubling them in time. Had they just gone an affordable school with far less or no loans, they would be able to afford the career detours and stand stills that and the time it is taking to become self sufficient. This is a serious problem that many families are now facing it. I have it myself with my kids to a degree, BUT THEY DO NOT OWE ANY STUDENT LOANS and what we owe, we have been paying since we took them out. </p>

<p>DH and I do feel a bit sad that we can’t afford to send all of our kids to the private college where we went without drastic change in our life styles or going into debt that woud be risky or compromising our retirement. But yes, if we wanted to change our standard of living to that of kids getting full rides, we could then use our assets and incomes to pay for those schools. The trade offs are there.</p>

<p>WaitingInCPA,</p>

<p>Check out our New York State public universities. Look at SUNY Binghampton, for example. The cost of attendance for the out-of-state kids is half of what our NY kids are paying in other out of state publics. Since most kids want to go away, it may be work for your family (unless you are from NY).</p>