<p>The most annoying thing to ME about the FAFSA is that they simply ask how many kids you will have in college. There is NOTHING about how much you are PAYING for the other kid to go. For example, when DD sent her FAFSA (and Profile) to the schools, those schools KNOW their costs. All they know about her brother is that he goes to college. He could be going to the local community college for $2000 per year....or he could be going to an expensive private school where his parents are paying $30000 per year for him to attend (yep...that's the case). Clearly our cash flow would be VERY different (and available for DD) if DS were going to the local community college. I wonder...why do they NOT ask that question. I guess they just don't care.</p>
<p>They do care. The numbers reveal themselves in the cash flow, savings, investments. Remember FAFSA is ultimately a government handout, Welfare. Would your want your politicians to change the methodology? Remember the Republicans are in power. </p>
<p>There was an article recently in WJS(?) saying that FAFSA has actually contributed to the rise in tuition rather than to make tuition affordable.</p>
<p>thumper,</p>
<p>Several of my kids' colleges asked about the specific college the other kid will be attending. For instance, the Brown renewal application wants to know not only what school the brother will attend, but how much the parent contribution will be. They also state: "Sibling Enrollment status will be verified each year in September. If you know of a change to the sibling enrollment status before September, please notify our office in writing. A change in sibling enrollment status will result in an adjustment to your financial aid award. Please notify us of any change immediately." Have you seen anything on the institutional forms you have gotten from colleges to that effect? I have decided wait to submit this form until S2 has decided where he is going and I have a clear picture of the parent contribution. (Mercifully it is not due till May 3, but I would like not to have to wait quite that long!)</p>
<p>yes it did seem like there was a place to both put what school siblings are attending and cost of tuition, the way it is described it even seems to include K-12 private schools not just college.
But this may be dependent on the college- and not part of the standard PROFILE</p>
<p>itstoomuch: It doesn't matter which political party is in power in regards to the FAFSA. Families didn't get more or less money from the FAFSA system during Dem administrations. The problem is that both parties think that families that make so-called higher incomes (50K+ 125K) are seen as "rich" regardless of whether they live in areas with high cost of living/housing and can afford to contribute tens of thousands towards college. The system also assumes that these families have always made higher incomes and can afford to have saved a bunch. Some of us have only gone into higher incomes quite recently but have had to use that extra money towards private K-12 education because of the condition of their local public schools (my son had his life threatened in the local public school).</p>
<p>cause like for me they were 6000 dollars off from my actual efc, does this mean i put in something wrong???</p>
<p>it depends on what school you applied to and the method that they used to calculate FA. remember the FAFSA only gives you an EFC based on the federal methodology if you are consering a school that uses the CSS profile or their own FA forms they probably have an institutional methodology of determining aid</p>
<p>Differences between the IM and FM models include:</p>
<p>IM collects information on estimated academic year family income, medical expenses, elementary and secondary school tuition and unusual circumstances. FM omits these questions.</p>
<p>IM considers a fuller range of family asset information, while FM ignores assets of siblings, all assets of certain families with less than $50,000 of income, and both home and family farm equity.</p>
<p>FM defines income as the adjusted gross income on federal tax returns, plus various categories of untaxed income. IM includes in total income any paper depreciation, business, rental or capital losses which artificially reduce adjusted gross income.</p>
<p>FM does not assume a minimum student contribution to education; IM expects the student, as primary beneficiary of the education, to devote some time each year to earning money to pay for education.</p>
<p>FM ignores the noncustodial parent in cases of divorce or separation; IM expects parents to help pay for education, regardless of current marital status.</p>
<p>FM and IM apply different percentages to adjust the parental contribution when multiple siblings are simultaneously enrolled in college, and IM considers only siblings enrolled in undergraduate programs.</p>
<p>The IM expected family share represents a best estimate of a familys capacity (relative to other families) to absorb, over time, the costs of education. It is not an assessment of cash on hand, a value judgment about how much a family should be able to use current income, or a measure of liquidity. The final determinations of demonstrated need and awards rest with the University and are based upon a uniform and consistent treatment of family circumstances.</p>
<p>Except in the most extraordinary circumstances, Colleges classifies incoming students as dependent upon parents for institutional aid purposes, even though some students may meet the federal definition of independence.</p>
<p>Students enrolling as dependent students are considered dependent throughout their undergraduate years when need for institutional scholarships is determined.</p>
<p>For institutional aid purposes a student may not declare independence due to attainment of legal age, internal family arrangements, marriage or family disagreements.</p>
<p>I've always thought it is ridiculous not to consider non-custodial parent's income. Since most kids reside with their mom, who usually earn less than their dads, this is insane. We have friends who "share" custody but they put the low-income mom down as "primary" so they could get money for son's education at Columbia! Dad's high 6 figure engineering income wasn't even considered!</p>
<p>
[quote]
We have friends who "share" custody but they put the low-income mom down as "primary" so they could get money for son's education at Columbia! Dad's high 6 figure engineering income wasn't even considered!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Look, I am going to put it out here and not mince any words, if this happened then someone lied/ gamed the system on their FA paperwork. Most likely did not list child support if they are collecting as income on the fafsa. Since no one 'benefits' on their taxes, the custodial does not have to count it as income and the non-custodial does not get to write it off, the information never showed up when when the custodial parents submitted tax forms and W-2.</p>
<p>Columbia does require the income/ assets of the non-custodial parents even step-parents. Parent/kid most likely told school they had no contact with non-custodial parent, was not getting any money, did not know where he is and got someone to write the letters needed to get a non-custodial waiver.</p>
<p>The sad thing is if the truth ever comes out the kid is at risk of being thrown out of school, having the degree rescinded after graduation, and they will definitely have to repay columbia all of the grant money they put out and can face criminal charges.</p>
<p>OK....I just completed the Profile and FAFSA again...this time for my son (whoohoo...that means I'm done for this year until I receive my annual "verification letter"...yep, have gotten one every year despite NOT being eligible for a dime of need based aid). The Profile DOES ask what the parent contribution AND any scholarships are for the sibling(s). The FAFSA simply asks for a number of students in college. Hopefully they will notice that my meager savings has become even MORE meager as I pay for my son's schooling. I do think both of my kids will get subsidized stafford loans this year...yahoo. We've been trying to keep up with paying the interest (family subsidy, I guess you could say). It will be nice to not have to do that next year. Of course with two in college, we wouldn't have been doing that anyway...</p>
<p>My EFC ended up being a lot. My dad doesn't work, so we just live off of my mom's income (which isn't very much for someone with a master's degree). The problem is, unknown to me my parents have been saving up for my brother and I for college, so I have a lot of money in the bank in my name (but still not enough to even pay for one year at Vanderbilt, where I'm going to go). The only good thing is, almost all of that account will be empty (at the rate things are going now) after my freshman year, so when I reapply next year my EFC should be drastically lower.</p>
<p>llf,</p>
<p>Not necessarily, what will happen with the money that is in your name is that 35% of it each year will be counted toward your EFC(this does not include the EFC based on your parent's income/assets or differences for any interest accrued)</p>
<p>for example: If you have $40,000 in the bank</p>
<p>year 1 your EFC will be $14,000 (40000*.35) </p>
<p>(40-14,000=26,000)</p>
<p>year 2 your EFC will be $9,100 (26,000*.35 = 9100) </p>
<p>26000-9100 = 16,900</p>
<p>year 3 16,900 *.35 = $5,915 (16900 *.35)</p>
<p>16900- 5915 = 10,895</p>
<p>year 4 10895 * .35 = $3,845</p>
<p>Sybbie since custody is "shared" there is no child support paid (both parents equally support the kids while they are in each's custody). The dad swears that he was not asked to fill out anything for Columbia. This was a few years ago so maybe this has changed at columbia now.</p>
<p>sybbie: If the kid spends all of his college fund the first year then how can that be counted in subsequent years?</p>
<p>If he spends down then there will be no money. But would it be in his best interest to spend down every dollar he has to avoid paying his share?</p>
<p>For the longest amount time columbia has been distributing their own funds to meet demonstrated need and they have ben using the css profile.</p>
<p>Correct-- if he spends it down fully his first year, 35% of 0 is 0, and the contribution to EFC from student assets will be zero.</p>
<p>The family is under no obligation to spend 35% of his assets each year. They can spend more, or less.</p>
<p>FAFSA is a snapshot of assets on the day filed.</p>
<p>sybbie: If he is going to Vandy and he needs to use all of his college savings to pay for it during his first year then he is not "spending down every dollar to avoid paying his share." He is paying "his share" & his parents share (since the account has <em>their</em> money in it. The account was set up by his parents to pay for college. His first year will take all that is there. After that, he will have zero and then he'll get grants, loans, etc.</p>
<p>sybbie: If he is going to Vandy and he needs to use all of his college savings to pay for it during his first year then he is not "spending down every dollar to avoid paying his share." He is paying "his share" & his parents share (since the account has <em>their</em> money in it.) The account was set up by his parents to pay for college. His first year will take all that is there. After that, he will have zero and then he'll get grants, loans, etc.</p>
<p>There is no rule that a college fund can only be distributed over 4 years. Frankly, most people don't have enough in their kids' college funds to pay for 1 year at a private college.</p>
<p>Frankly, he and his family are being penalized for putting the savings into his name (especially since they don't make much money). If they had put the savings in their own names (which they should have done!), this poor kid would have qualified for more $.</p>
<p>sybbie: If he is going to Vandy and he needs to use all of his college savings to pay for it during his first year then he is not "spending down every dollar to avoid paying his share." He is paying "his share" & his parents share (since the account has <em>their</em> money in it.) The account was set up by his parents to pay for college. His first year will take all that is there. After that, he will have zero and then he'll get grants, loans, etc.</p>
<p>There is no rule that a college fund can only be distributed over 4 years. Frankly, most people don't have enough in their kids' college funds to pay for 1 year at a private college.</p>
<p>Frankly, he and his family are being penalized for putting the savings into his name (especially since they don't make much money). </p>
<p>If his parents had put the savings in their own names (which they should have done since they haven't a lot of money!), this poor kid would have qualified for more $. </p>
<p>With the system as it is, only the wealthy should set up college funds in their kids' names since they wouldn't qualify for any aid anyway.</p>
<p>Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems as if the system expects parents who have set up college funds (again with their own funds), to also contribute more money in real time if the college fund is not enough -- as in the case of this kid. Therefore, unless one has a large income, setting up a college fund (in a child's name) may not be a wise decision.</p>