Efc High?

Prep School Admissions
21

<p>
[quote]
I was reently talking to an adcom about all of this. They are facing not only record numbers of apps, but also record numbers asking for aid. Unlike for colleges, this is not the reasult of the babyboomlet, is something else completely.</p>

<p>The information age: just google best American high schools. Books: Prep, Charlotte Simmons and a couple in Asia set at American preps. Intense international interest. New money wanting what old money has always had and the middle class wanting what new money has. So we get an explosion in interest in prep schools, especially the top of the heap.</p>

<p>Just look at this site, I'd have to say the majority of the posters are seeking aid. They are not legacies and very few are athletes. This is the new face of the boarding school applicant.</p>

<p>It will be very interesting to examine results in March.

[/quote]

I think the increased interest generated is primarily at the top schools. Parents are name brand shopping and never knew there was a discount (FA) available before, so it brings them in out of the woodwork.</p>

<p>I'm betting that many of these new FA applicants don't get much help because they don't bring any immediate to the school (athletically, artistically, etc.) that they can't get from full-pay. They also don't bring the tradition of family giving that the legacies are admitted for. And the top schools don't necessarily need these students to make it financially.</p>

<p>Now at the lesser endowed schools with empty seats, filling seats turns FA into a discounting program. However these schools don't have the name cache that the top schools have and therefore don't draw the crowds of these applicants.</p>

<p>Look at how many of the members here can tell you ANYTHING about lesser known 2nd tier schools. Although the academics may only be the same offerings as the top public HS's, their primary benefit is the non-bookwork stuff - the extra help, the personal relationships, the basic growing up stuff. It has value to many kids lost in public education, but often their parents don't understand that there is more to raising a child other than taking him/her to the right schoolhouse door. Putting a kid in a school with high achieving children does not guarantee a good education.</p>

22

<p>It does seem evident that many of the kids here should have taken a hard look at schools more likely to give them aid and a great education too!</p>

<p>Maybe that will be the legacy of this board this year. There are truly schools that have everything to offer AESD do that do discount and would be happy to have you.</p>

<p>Lefthand, did you just look at the AESD caliber? If yes, would you do it differently a second time?</p>

23

<p>do you know the financial requirements for FAFSA? (parents make about 100k combined per year)</p>

24

<p>dumbstruck -- the FAFSA is a federal form. It doesn't cost anything to fill out and submit and it can be used by anyone -- even Bill Gates can have his kids complete it and submit it. The FAFSA uses a particular methodology to calculate a number (referred to as the Expected Family Contribution "EFC") that is used to qualify students for federal government grants and loans. Many schools also use the EFC to award state and institutional money. Many private schools use the Profile, which uses a different methodology to calculate the EFC.</p>

<p>The FAFSA is not used for high school financial aid.</p>

<p>Does that help? If you want an estimate on what your EFC would be with your parents current income and assets, I like these calculators (select Federal Methodology for what the FAFSA would give you for an EFC, and select Institutional Methodology to see what profile would give you).</p>

<p><a href="http://www.finaid.org/calculators/finaidestimate.phtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.finaid.org/calculators/finaidestimate.phtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

25

<p>Suze - we looked at some from the AESD club and some not in that acronym. The applications were to very competitive schools. </p>

<p>I wouldn't do it differently, but if I'd known how it was going to turn out, probably wouldn't have bothered at all. You learn things in the process, but it's time consuming, costly and emotionally draining. We felt if our child was going to be away from home and we were making a financial sacrifice, that the education had to really, really, be worth the sacrifices. Had she gotten in with aid, it would have been worth it. This is not the way we approached college admissions for our oldest, nor would we do the same in the college search for this child. I almost look forward to that process - being back on more familiar ground.</p>

<p>There are a zillion books on every aspect of college admissions and very little on secondary schools. I do think this forum helps fill the void and can be empowering for families trying to figure out how the whole thing works.</p>

26

<p>Lefthand, I'm wondering if the schools were encouraging to you and DD. I ask this here instead of PM because I think it's important for many of the kids here to understand the realities. To look past the obvious is they want a positive outcome. </p>

<p>One poster with a very low SSAT reported that a big 4 school told him to apply anyway. Almost every kid on the board has reported excellent, highly encouraging interviews.</p>

<p>Your daughter was certainly well qualified and I'm thinking if they started talking FA numbers, they must have been indicating serious interest. How did they explain the number bigger than your EFC? How did they explain the waitlisting?</p>

<p>This is reminding me of all the college adcoms who go to high schools and downplay the importance of SATs, GPAs and so on, preaching holistic review. Then you see the scattergrams!</p>

27

<p>
[quote]
This is reminding me of all the college adcoms who go to high schools and downplay the importance of SATs, GPAs and so on, preaching holistic review. Then you see the scattergrams!

[/quote]

This is a more telling quote about the whole nature of school recruiting (both college and prep school) than just about anything I've seen.</p>

<p>While 80% of admittees fall neatly within those scattergram predictors of acceptance, there are are 20% of admittees generally fall outside of the norm of admittees.</p>

<p>The 80% is what everyone here speaks about (how do your stats compare?) and tries to use to determine fit and likely admission for a school. These 80% generally are the full-pay kids (or those with relatively small FA awards) who are safe bets that the school takes very little risk with. They have solid, but not exceptional (by the school statistics) academic credentials, no character blemishes and generally cover the cost of attendance thorough their fees.</p>

<p>The 80% are the kids who attend the adcom talks where they downplay the importance of SATs, GPAs and so on, preaching the holistic review. They are the ones who have dreamed about attending (fill in school here) and hang on every word the adcom says, thinking the adcom is talking to them about the stats. Unfortunately, these kids are not the people the adcoms are beating the bushes trying to find. They are looking for much of the 20% of the kids whom they see as those "statement" admits. </p>

<p>These 20% "statement" admits fall into a few categories. Some are the legacies whom the adcoms must cater to fishing for the big endowment payoff, even if their stats lay outside the scattergram on the low end.</p>

<p>Some of the 20% are the athletes and artists whom they bring in for bragging rights about the completeness of their whole program. Some lie outside the scattergram on the low end. Others lie within, but may have other weaknesses such as needing FA, or perhaps being a very narrowly focused person.</p>

<p>Some of the 20% are off the chart geniuses or people with truly unique backgrounds (think offspring of the well known), who have great potential to bring notariety (if not donations) to the school in their future endeavors.</p>

<p>Some of the 20% are promising URMs whom the schools use to introduce an otherwise homogenous community to the idea of achievement outside of upper middle class suburbia. These kids are also used to demonstrate that their system work even with kids who haven't had every advantage in life.</p>

<p>But I'll turn the focus back to most of us who are sitting here hanging on the adcom's words and then wonder why that rejection or low FA letter comes in March, thinking that we fit well within their 80% and not understanding that they have more than enough kids to fill that 80%, but the adcoms never can find enough of those others to fill the other 20% which is what they are wanting.</p>

<p>I wonder why so many of us spend our time looking for the school where we fit the 80% when we could be far more successful finding that school where we are the wanted 20%.</p>

<p>I'll get off my soapbox now. Wonderful discussion!</p>

28

<p>Well, I agree with this observation...and I think the answer to your final question is that everyone is looking for the right "fit" and in doing so you naturally look to identify with the 80% and not the 20%. So, basically, what you're saying is that the best "fit" may not be the place where you're typical, but where you're atypical. What a conundrum!</p>

<p>I can personally speak to the assurance and the talks. But there was one AdCom in particular who spoke to the FA issue in considerable detail...and that drew us in. It's been a terrific experience. And some schools -- including the one this AdCom rep is with -- probably consider my S "hooked" (while others probably don't care). He simply applied to the schools that we collectively decided would be a great fit. So I think we've got a couple of those 20%ers in there...just by dumb luck. Still, despite the seductive entreaties, I think we've had open eyes all along. I still don't think any schools owe my S a dime. And if they say they're not giving him (or us) dime one, I have no grievance.</p>

<p>That's why I like the theme of this latest post. It's not about being lured in and then betrayed. It's about being lured in and then making the right choices...understanding that FA is going to impact those choices.</p>

29

<p>Kirmum - you're right on the money. And it does make sense - what school is going to discourage any applicant, really? Until they have all the applications in front of them, the school doesn't know the pool they'll be pulling from. In truth, anyone with good stats has a shot, but most b.s. cannot fund every student they would like to take. </p>

<p>I believe I read in Bill Mayer's book "The College Admissions Mystique" a little story about a college admissions rep at a selective school who discouraged an applicant from applying because his stats just didn't stand a chance in that pool. The rep was fired. He knew the student didn't stand a chance but it was the colleges policy NOT to discourage anyone.</p>

<p>When I read threads on here where students have had great interviews, I remind myself that these are teenagers who came through a stressful event and feel good about themselves. That's valuable, but they aren't quite able to see it from the other side - what admissions person is going to make a child feel bad or discourage them from applying? I don't think it's so much about driving up the number of applications, it's human nature - in a good way. Students should be encouraged, you never know unless you try - but anyone on the inside knows some outcomes are more likely than others. </p>

<p>And to add: we went into the process knowing it was iffy on all counts, but after speaking to financial ad people and getting a verbal number, had more optimism and things ultimately didn't work out. In my experience: schools aren't discouraging until they tell you outright "no". And I understand their need to be that way.</p>

30

<p>I think it's due to the "rankings" factor. Every school wants to be very selective. The only way to do that is to reject a higher percentage of kids than other schools reject!</p>

<p>D'yer, I do agree that melding fit and where you can actually get in is the problem. However, if you have an 80 SSAT and need aid, even if AESD are your best fits, it's probably important to seek out fits at less selective schools. In fact even the kid with a 99 seeking aid should be looking at fits where they would be the exception.</p>

31

<p>suze -- I'm just saying we went into this search on a "need blind" basis. If the school wasn't just awesome -- awesome enough to give up our son four years earlier than expected -- then it doesn't get any better if it's cheaper. Now, it so happens that we did see good fits at less selective schools -- and only half of AESD seemed like fits...for his purposes. Unlike college, I don't see a need for safeties (financial or academic) among boarding schools. If the right schools aren't going to accept my S or aren't interested in giving him aid that they feel is better spent on others...then BS itself isn't a fit. </p>

<p>There are other options besides BS...which is -- practically speaking -- not the case for college admissions. There, I think the concept of safeties (academic and financial) is an imperative. Not so for BS. Unless you've got a disciplinary nightmare on your hands that you need to ship off to a military school that "treats" such kids, there's no need to compromise below your day school (public and private) options.</p>

<p>We're blessed in that we can swing well over half the bills and because he's been accepted to a local magnet school, which sets a decent floor for what we looked at for BS options.</p>

<p>Our decision matrix, therefore, doesn't account for ANY compromises in fit. Rightly so, I think (obviously). All the schools he applied to are the ones the entire family has agreed are awesome. A BS option has to beat the magnet school option. And that means it has to a) provide some aid (which is another way of saying, "charge me only an amount that hurts alot"), so that the BS option is feasible; AND b) be substantially better (for him) than the magnet school to make up for the price differential.</p>

<p>A rejection letter and no aid are the same thing. Getting some aid basically means getting a large bill. I'll do that -- gladly -- for the best fitting schools. </p>

<p>The disconnect that you point out is that you recognize that there's currently a (pseudo?) Veblen Effect underway for boarding schools...in which there's increasing demand as the costs are increasing. Meanwhile, counter to that anomalous trend, I'm expressing a highly price elastic view towards BS options. Even though the population that props up the Veblen Effect for BS may be willing to spend an extra $25,000 - $35,000 for only a marginal improvement over their day school options, I suspect that most candidates' families seeking FA are, like us, price elastic in how we regard the decision.</p>

<p>In other words, in order to get people to pay the steep price that's required if you're paying your EFC...most families in that situation aren't willing to lower the floor (in terms of fit compared to the day school options). The Veblen Effect is driven by full-freight families (which we're not talking about here with respect to expanding their search options) and FA-applicants who apply to BS because they don't know what the price tag will be...and then bail when they see it (which is why even price elastic consumers contribute to the BS Veblen Effect or, alternatively, why I think it might be a pseudo-Veblen Effect, based on the number of applications made prior to the actual price disclosure).</p>

32

<p>Actually D'yer, way back in the dark ages (4 years ago) when I was applying, an adcom commented to me during the interview that most applicants didn't have the wonderful day options that I had. I came to believe this was true, many choose BS because there is not a lot where they live.</p>