<p>polar- absolutely–my health insurance issue is a definite argument for the single-payer system. I totally agree. My point about income is that there other factors involved and everything is relative. My family does not make $150k, but much of our income is eaten up by all kinds of insurance and taxes, so at the end of the day it is daunting to be able to save for both retirement and college! In the “old days,” many, if not most, families had at least a company pension plan to “take care” of them in their “golden years.” Not so anymore; no industry, even k-12 teaching is safe and secure. I don’t really ever envision being able to retire, actually!</p>
<p>In my state, it’s the cost of pensions. Something like 40% of the cost of higher education in the state schools is pension and benefits. </p>
<p>When I went to school costs were reasonable. My middle class parents could pay tuition and room and board out of yearly income. That just doesn’t happen anymore.</p>
<p>I wish we could go back to the days when college was affordable without all this debt.</p>
<p>However- many kids didn’t attend college- we didn’t have financial aid to the extent we have now & education is still the main way that an individual can increase their socioeconomic level.</p>
<p>What is difficult for some families to understand- for most families 1/4 to 1/3 of before tax income is assumed to be available for college expenses with FAFSA.
PROFILE could recognize even more income /assets as available.</p>
<p>So would you rather have the nations average income of $53,000 & pay $15,000 from that for school? ( assuming student attends a 100% need met school- which MOST schools are NOT) </p>
<p>Or with an income of $200,000 & an EFC of $57,000, paying out full cost for college expenses, but having $143,000 left over.</p>
<p>( always having the choice to attend a school with COA of less than $57,000 
)</p>
<p>I have a feeling that those in the later category would prefer to stay there, but they reserve the right to complain about it.</p>
<p>Which is fine, but perhaps you shouldn’t complain about it to people in the first category.</p>
<p>It is daunting these days. We need to be enraged. My dad (an unrepentant hippie, bless his heart) keeps wondering why people aren’t out on the streets protesting.</p>
<p>We’re spending billions of dollars a day on foreign wars, have a navy larger than the next 13 biggest navies in the world combined, just significantly reduced taxes on the rich and are now slashing support for public education. Something has to give.</p>
<p>We get the government we deserve, I suppose.</p>
<p>upstatemom: Sorry for assuming about your income. I totally understand where you’re coming from.</p>
<p>TatinG: That’s because state universities kept faculty and staff on, even at below-market pay, by promising great retirement benefits. Blame the managers for ****-poor planning.</p>
<p>In my state, the morons in the pension system assumed that the stock market would be going up 10% per year and based the overly generous pension system on such nonsense. </p>
<p>We also have useless government agencies like milk boards, this board and that board that meet twice a year for no reason and pay the attendees six figure salaries. We have jobs like billboard inspector. There seems to be no adult in charge of the children in the legislature.</p>
<p>This shouldn’t be a political discussion, the politics section was shut down on CC.</p>
<p>Politicians cause much of the mess with tuition increases. It’s impossible to avoid the subject.</p>
<p>
In the US today, the poor deserve to be poor ‘most’ of the time. Its not my fault they didn’t try to start a business, its not my fault they choose to take a dead-end job instead of getting vocational training, its not my fault they chose to have kids when they only had income to support themselves.</p>
<p>The only reason tuition is so high is because of the concept of financial aid, the tuition goes up because the few kids paying the full cost have to support the institutional aid going to other kids to cheap to pay the full thing.</p>
<p>meteman, you have got to be a ■■■■■.</p>
<p>I think he’s a sheltered HS kid whose world view will hopefully be broadened when he heads off to college.</p>
<p>“People with low EFCs pay less because they can’t afford to pay more”
@-@
Im an adult. Made choices in life. At one time I thought I would be an artist or stay at home mom but reality is what it is. I didn’t get to finish college because I chose a career that would best allow me to provide fir my child (also only one but that’s another story). Should I or do I think that tax dollars should provide the $$ for the children of parents who didn’t make the same choices. I think not. If right now you can only afford the CC education and not the high dollar private well you probably should have thought of that sooner. Should the govt pay for anyones ability to afford the college experience just because of income? Why? This is America we should award merit only.</p>
<p>Little of the need-based aid that allows low income students to attend the “high dollar private” comes from your taxes. It’s the private institution’s money; this is America and they can do what they want with it.</p>
<p>I agree with private schools providing any amount they like. I disagree with govt subsidies.</p>
<p>But of course it’s in everyone’s interest to have a more educated workforce. If my taxes help some low-income kid through college, that’s a good use of the money.</p>
<p>Yet another CC thread where people confuse the notions of income, wealth and class.</p>
<p>^Amen to that! </p>
<p>Meteman, there are all kinds of reasons that parents may have low incomes…they may not have had educational opportunities when they were younger (and remember, that the “college is for everyone” mindset is a relatively recent phenomenon), they may have health issues or have suffered a serious accident, there have been massive layoffs and pay cuts, small businesses have suffered terribly due to credit restrictions imposed by the overextended banks, and entire industries have effectively moved offshore. The longer you live, the more you understand that life is very unpredictable and bad stuff really does happen to good people too. Education is a good way to either break a family cycle of poverty or help ensure that a new one doesn’t start, and to help ensure that we have a workforce (and future taxpayers) that will support new industries and the next generation. </p>
<p>Relatively few truly poor kids are going off to private schools and living it up…many more are at their local CC’s and public schools, living at home, studying, taking student loans, and working part-time. Those who have to live on campus are generally taking more than the average student in loans and will often take longer to finish their degrees. They may be given a leg up, and I like to think that they’re aware and grateful for that help, but it’s far from the “free ride to your school of choice” that some people make it out to be. If you really stop and think about it, those type of awards ARE based on merit as no one gets to those 100% need met schools or is a Questbridge match candidate without a very significant amount of hard work. As a society, we need all of the bright, talented kids we can get to go to college, regardless of socioecomic status, and I think that having managed to excel under the type of stress that many poor kids are living under demonstrates a commendable amount of perseverance!</p>
<p>So, while you’re crying that FAFSA isn’t fair, please stop for a moment and consider that life simply isn’t fair and that’s something that poor kids already know and understand! I think it’s rather ridiculous to whine about EFCs and not being able to afford $50K schools, then complain that someone with a much lower income is getting help that you actually don’t need. If you make a decent living, you still have the choice to live like a poor person and save your money and send your kids to public schools. I don’t care where you live, I guarantee that there are poor people living somewhere nearby, shopping at bargain outlets and thrift stores, using public transport or driving 15 y.o. vehicles held together by prayer, often eating one meal a day and keeping the heat turned way down. No one will come and haul you away for choosing to do the same. But the opposite isn’t true…the poor often have very limited choices and, in my experience, the working poor are certainly not poor by choice!</p>
<p>sk8rmom, rentof2–Well said!</p>
<p>sk8rmom–Great post!! </p>
<p>I would like to add, that no one here wants to pay the full price for tuition, especially when the guy down the street is getting a better “deal”. But it truly is a choice…</p>
<p>To me, “getting a better deal” is made up of a few options–
- Be from a low income family. For those of you (us) that dont fit that category, you (we) should just get over it. I certainly would not like trade places with many of those in need. Remember the classic movie “Trading Places”–Is it genetics or environment?
- Obtain Merit Aid – Many schools offer generous merit aid. I think as parents we need to ensure that our children don’t get their heart set on a school that is unaffordable. Help them get the best grades and scores to put them in best position for receiving merit aid. Keep doing research.<br>
- Great deals for college are often close to home or public. Whether it is state U or, CC or commuting there are some wonderful bargains out there. </p>
<p>One last analogy… Some of the posts in this thread and others, remind me of the people at the grocery store that complain about the price of food, but are not willing to cut coupons. Remember, you can still get a “Name Brand” at significant discount if you are willing to work for it.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>It seems to me that as the govt gives a tax deduction for contributions to schools, it does have some relation to the aid.</p></li>
<li><p>As to personal attacks on some posters (suggesting that one is a kid in need of education), I suspect some posters are university employees, and have a vested interest in the present system.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>*If you really stop and think about it, those type of awards ARE based on merit as no one gets to those 100% need met schools or is a Questbridge match candidate without a very significant amount of hard work. </p>
<p>As a society, we need all of the bright, talented kids we can get to go to college, regardless of socioecomic status, and I think that having managed to excel under the type of stress that many poor kids are living under demonstrates a commendable amount of perseverance!*</p>
<p>I agree.</p>