<p>$24,000.</p>
<p>Hard to believe when I read CC.</p>
<p>dstark,</p>
<p>You must also remember that the posters on CC are a pretty self selective group (yeah it can made you jaded) and are no where near being representative of high school senior as the overwhelming majority of them do attend their locat state universities</p>
<p>I agree with Sybbie. If my kids had opted to go to our State U, I would never have discovered CC, let alone posted.</p>
<p>Definitely a wake-up call. I wonder if discovering CC has been a good thing. :( :)</p>
<p>Agreed. The parents forum may have a slightly different demographic profile but a while back one of the youngsters compiled a statistical "profile" of the average CC student poster and it was phenomenal. The one thing I remember specifically is a 1460 SAT.</p>
<p>WElcome to our bubble.</p>
<p>Yes. This college "fit" and college "search" routine is an elitist game. Only a very small fraction of kids in college leave their home state. The rest of the kids in college are attending their in-state schools, often the campus nearest their home town... often (horrors!) commuting while living at home .... and they are grateful to be there. </p>
<p>I just think that with college tuitions at private colleges now commonly exceeding $30K, it's important to keep some perspective on what we are doing. We have made 3 false assumptions: (a) that our very bright kids who have managed just fine growing up in whatever community we settled in and for the most part attending local school now can only thrive and learn if somehow they are placed in to their own personal ideal college; (b) there is en extreme and highly significant difference between the quality of educaition that can be had at various private colleges and universities as compared to most public ones, rather than a marginal one; and (c) that the 4 or so years our children spend in college are going to determine the course of the remainder of their lives. It is those assumptions that make parents willing to pay $30K a year for an $8000 commodity ... which would make a lot of sense if Middlebury really offered more foreign language classes than Ohio State.... but it doesn't. </p>
<p>So we've all become boutique shoppers, often actually overlooking the many academic shortcomings of various private colleges due to the prestige of the college itself, or worse, the prestige inherent in the notion of it simply being a private college.</p>
<p>"Price increases at colleges and universities moderated somewhat this year, but students who need financial aid are still relying increasingly on loans to pay for higher education, according to figures released Tuesday by the College Board."</p>
<p>I guess that CCers do not read the "other publications" of TCB. It pays to click on EVERY button on the TCB and ETS sites. :) The full report "Trends in College Pricing 2005" is available here:</p>
<p>In addition, the other reports make for good reading as well:</p>
<p>** Trends in Student Aid 2005 (.pdf/936K)
** Education Pays 2004 (.pdf/1.36MB)
** Education Pays Update 2005 (.pdf/430K)</p>
<p>You can find prior years reports by searching the old press releases. </p>
<p>PS If you are interested, the National Education Associations provide a few comments on the same page.</p>
<p>I skimmed through an article in the Chronicle of Higher education about rising college costs that focused on Bates. Health insurance and heating costs, among others, are rising making it difficult to rein in tuition increases. Perhaps someone can provide the link?</p>
<p>Xiggi, care to summarize?</p>
<p>Calmom, I like your post #7. Nothing is going to change though.</p>
<p>Calmom, I agree with you for the most part, but I do think that there are differences in the experience depending on where one goes to college. H and I decided it was worth taking out loans for the "elite" experience for our S. Of course, it would be nice if we could look at how his life would turn out, given a couple of different college paths, but we can't know the future. But, like many other parents on this board, i.e. Garland in particular, we'd rather spend our money on the kids' education than anything else. We both graduated from a smaller campus of the U of CA, and I can tell you that our S1 is defininitely having a different experience. We're having fun observing his college life so far.</p>
<p>I'd rather not be included in the "we," thank you.
So college fit and college search is elitist. Says who?
I liken it to flying. Not an original metaphor: It's used by Morton Shapiro of Williams to discuss differential college costs. But consider this:
Some airlines do not fly from your local airport or to where you want to go. Service differs from airline to airline (I wish Singapore Airlines served my city, but it does not). Some people don't mind flying economy; but if you can fly business class or first class, it's so much more comfortable. Is it worth the price difference? Yes, if you can afford it. It will make the journey definitely more pleasant. No, if you have to take a second mortgage. In any case, you will get to your destination. Whether your meeting or vacation is a success at the end of it is a different matter.
To me, the better college experience I could give my Ss has been worth the cost differential. I don't see what is elitist about this.</p>
<p>elite:
[quote]
e·lite or é·lite (ĭ-lēt', ā-lēt') pronunciation
n., pl. elite or e·lites.
1. A group or class of persons or a member of such a group or class, enjoying superior intellectual, social, or economic status
[/quote]
Source: <a href="http://www.answers.com/elite&r=67%5B/url%5D">http://www.answers.com/elite&r=67</a></p>
<p>What is "elitist" about making the choice to pay for the higher cost education differential is that 99% of the people on earth can't afford it -- nor can 95% of Americans. To say that you don't see what is elitist about a choice to spend those dollars simply because it buys you something you happen to value reflects a "let them eat cake" attitude.</p>
<p>Calmom:
You did not talk of elite, but of elitism. There is a difference:</p>
<p>Elitism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.</p>
<p>Elitism is a belief or attitude that an elite a selected group of persons whose personal abilities, specialized training or other attributes place them at the top of any field (see below) are the people whose views on a matter are to be taken most seriously, or who are alone fit to govern. Thus elitism sees an elite as occupying a special position of authority or privilege in a group, set apart from the majority of people who do not match up with their abilities or attributes. Thus this selected elite is treated with favouritism. Members of an inherited elite are aristocrats.</p>
<p>I've never really been able to examine the differential question for myself. I'm biased as a result of having received an "elite" LAC education (and grad schools to boot), all at essentially no cost to me - I had more money in the bank when I left grad. school than when I entered undergrad. I do know that I benefitted greatly, but I don't have a double who can testify to having received a public education.</p>
<p>And so I hoped to pass that benefit along to D. #1. (For D#2, most of the privates are decidedly fourth tier institutions, without Div.I gymnastics teams.) But even here I couldn't consider the differential. The costs to us are less than half that of the state university, and in fact are likely less than if she was just sitting at home doing nothing.</p>
<p>So we are very grateful, and I was, I am sure, very helpful in boutique shopping - or at least in making it possible to pick up that elitist bauble for her on the cheap. </p>
<p>But it is getting more and more difficult for large numbers of folks to afford the state university every year, and that troubles me deeply.</p>
<p>No, I said that the pursuit of the prestige private education was an "elitist game". It is that because for the most part only the rich can afford to play. Kind of like comparing polo to soccer.</p>
<p>I would also do not want to be included as a "we." If you don't think the expense is worth it, then don't spend the money. In many areas community colleges represent the best bargain and there is no room and board. The expense can be a lot less than $8000/year. </p>
<p>My D did for the most part attend a local high school and we tried to give her as many opportunities as possible outside of the school. She spent the last two years of high school taking Saturday classes with a much more demanding schedule than the HS. We did not push her; it was her choice. I think she demonstrated a drive and determination and will benefit from the best college education we can provide. Certainly, not every expensive private college provides a significant difference in quality over public universities. But some do provide a lot more. Are 4 years in college going to help shape a student's future? I sure think so. I also believe that an excitement and love of learning can become an ongoing part of one's life. That can be more valuable than any possible monetary return that education can provide. </p>
<p>Is it possible to overlook shortcomings due to a college's prestige? I do agree. I also think it is very important to spend the time and effort to really understand the benefits and shortcomings of each prospective school before spending the money. That may be the reason so many of us have been attracted to this forum.</p>
<p>But again, Calmom, you assume that families send kids to some schools "for the prestige." That's a lot of assumption to make on behalf of the "we." Or is that a royal "we?"<br>
It is silly to bankrupt oneself in order to fly first class but it is also silly not to avail oneself of the greater comforts of first class if one can afford it. And who should sit in judgement of how others choose to spend their money?</p>
<p>There is a summary on the linked page:</p>
<p>*What Students Actually Pay *
Net prices vary even more than published prices. Trends in College Pricing reports on the average price net of grants and federal education tax credits and deductions. Net prices declined or rose slowly during the early years of the 19952005 decade, but have been rising in all three sectors since 2001-02. Over the past decade, in both public and private institutions, net price as a percentage of income has risen significantly only for those in the lower half of the income distribution. </p>
<p>Trends in Student Aid 2005
This year's College Board data on financial aid show that almost $129 billion in student aid was distributed in academic year 2004-05almost $10 billion more than the previous year. In addition, students borrowed almost $14 billion dollars from nonfederal sources to help finance their education. </p>
<p>Average aid per student increased by 3 percent between 2003-04 and 2004-05, after adjusting for inflation. Between 1996-97 and 2001-02, total grant aid for undergraduates grew twice as fast as total borrowing, but since 2001-02, that pattern has reversed. In 2004-05, the percentage of total undergraduate aid in the form of grants declined for the third year in a row. Undergraduates received 46 percent of their aid in the form of grants. Graduate students received 22 percent of their aid in the form of grants. </p>
<p>After three years of large increases, the number of Pell Grant recipients increased by only 3 percent in 2004-05, and the constant dollar value of the average Pell Grant declined for the second consecutive year. The maximum Pell Grant, which covered 35 percent of average public four-year tuition, fees, and room and board in 1994-95 and 42 percent in 2001-02, covered only 36 percent in 2004-05. </p>
<p>*Socioeconomic Status and Access to College *
Several factors have led to students in the upper half of the income distribution benefiting more from changes in student aid policies than those in the lower half. Forty-three percent of the education tax credits and about 70 percent of the benefits of the federal tuition tax deduction go to taxpayers with incomes of $50,000 or higher. Some states and institutions have also increased the proportion of aid they allocate on the basis of academic credentials rather than financial need. </p>
<p>Source: <a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/press/article/0,,48884,00.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.collegeboard.com/press/article/0,,48884,00.html</a></p>
<p>Marite, thank you for putting what I feel into words. Neither my husband nor I come from an "elite" background, and status was certainly not a factor in finding a college for our son. But fit was. Finding an academically challenging environment for high achieving kids comes at a price. In some ways, we can't afford it. We'll probably have to put off retirement and the kids shouldn't expect a trust fund when we are gone. There are no luxury cars or second homes in our future. But what else would we do with our money? I obviously believe that the sacrifices we are making for our son will pay off in the end, although maybe not in terms of financial gain. But I think that the friends he makes, and the professors with whom he works will affect him for the rest of his life. And who knows? He may even meet his future wife at his school, in which case I want him to meet girls who are like him in ability and values.</p>