Eliminating duplicates, narrowing the list

College Search & Selection
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<p>My best friend, who I was sure would love Chicago (and she was too), liked Northwestern more, saying that Chicago was "austere" and Northwestern was friendly and gave a great vibe. According to my college counselor, this happens to everyone that visits both schools.</p>

<p>I'll think about ED at Brown. I loved Brown, and can see myself there more than at any other school (save maybe Michigan), but I'm not 100% sure I'm willing to do the binding agreement. One thing Brown likes that I'm doing is continuing each subject for my senior year (supposedly Brown hates it when you drop a foreign language, history or science your senior year).</p>

<p>I've thought about Pomona before but never seriously. Sorry to hear about Oberlin; I was banking on liking that one. I'll have to go visit it.</p>

42

<p>ReninDetroit: stick to your guns. You seem a lot more astute about MSU than many people on their boards w/ their "opinions".</p>

<p>TourGuide: Why invoke my name? I haven't spoken at all on this... But since you brought me in, let me correct a few things you've said.</p>

<p>1) No, Indiana Univ. does not have "a more intellectual" atmosphere than Michigan State Univ. Yes, MSU does have ag, engineering and medical programs that IU doesn't have, but you neglect to mention that Mich State DOES have a music school that IS of a very high caliber -- among others, it's jazz program is among the nation's best and the Lansing Symphony has it's home on MSU's campus (at the acoustically renowned Wharton Center) as do both the NPR and PBS radio and TV outlets) -- can't get much more "intellectual" than NPR/PBS (the oldest such campus TV run station west of the Mississippi River). Also, the political science department and James Madison (residential) college (separate, but cross fertilize each other) are top-rated—the 17-year old LeFrak Forum, housed in MSU’s poli sci dept, hosts several national/international lectures (many which have been on C-SPAN) every year. Also, and the film school (hosting the state’s larges Film Festival) and other creative arts, are very, very good and growing. (MSU’s one of the few, if not the ONLY school, w/ 2 national literary magazines for students produced on campus). This small sampling, alone, shoots holes in your statement.
2) What’s your argument? I’ve many times noted that the U-M gets more of the top students in the state. But I also reject your assumption (as do the facts) that MSU doesn’t get a significant share, as well as even more from out of state – an MSU admissions official just the other day noted that MSU’s incoming class has risen over 6 percentage points, so far, over last years – which would mean about 15% will be from out of state; she also noted that grades/test scores are up even higher than the 3.6, 24.5/25 ACT of last year. Given MSU’s large undergrad size, 15% means a lot of OSS’s adding to the geographic diversity of the student class.
3) You’re assumption that b/c Indiana has no state school comparable to U-M, IU gets “the cream of the crop” while MSU doesn’t, simply is nonsense. Indiana, population-wise, is a much smaller state than Michigan, while Michigan, which hosts schools of the caliber of Michigan and MSU, retains a larger share of top students w/in its state U system than does Indiana. Again, you’re operating with assumption and not facts.</p>

<p>So TourGuide, a lot of your opinions and broad-based assumptions are simply false. Fact is, ReninDetroit, who is still in HS, seems much more knowledgeable on the subject than you.</p>

43

<p>ReninDetroit. I would definitely check out Oberlin, as it's nearby to you (and a great school, obviously). Slipper is entitled to his/her opinion (I'm not quite sure what he/her means by the "extreme" nature of Obie's (liberal) social scene, but no matter ...), but remember that Oberlin is only 35 miles west of Cleveland, with frequent shuttles into town as well as Lorain Transit buses into Cleve Hopkins International Airport (where you can hop a Red Line rapid transit train into downtown or University Circle -- the region's culture center and home of Case Western Res U, CIM and CIA). Whatever one may think of Cleveland, it's undeniable that it is a diverse city with considerable high culture.</p>

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<p>ReninDetroit. I would definitely check out Oberlin, as it's nearby to you (and a great school, obviously). Slipper is entitled to his/her opinion (I'm not quite sure what he/her means by the "extreme" nature of Obie's (liberal) social scene, but no matter ...), but remember that Oberlin is only 35 miles west of Cleveland, with frequent shuttles into town as well as Lorain Transit buses into Cleve Hopkins International Airport (where you can hop a Red Line rapid transit train into downtown or University Circle -- the region's culture center and home of Case Western Res U, CIM and CIA). Whatever one may think of Cleveland, it's undeniable that it is a diverse city with considerable high culture.</p>

<p>I'd for sure rather stay in Philly, let alone anywhere then go to school in Ohio.</p>

45

<p>i just think grinnell is a good mix between carleton and oberlin, not too hippy nor too preppy.</p>

46

<p>Quincy: I invoked your name because I know from experience that whenever MSU is mentioned, you will soon make an appearance. Please note that just to keep you from having a meltdown, I was careful to say, "...U of Michigan skims a lot of the cream off the top in Michigan, and MSU GETS SOME CREAM BUT NOT AS MUCH." If you don't think that is fair or accurate, I'm sorry.</p>

<p>I stand by the statement that IU overall vibe is more "intellectual" (no engineering, no agriculture, no medical school) and MSU more practical, even though the overall quality is roughly the same.</p>

47

<p>Well, I guess you're statement is correct re the "cream" students MSU is "not as much" because "whatever Quincy says" is absolutely quantifiable. </p>

<p>Good stuff, TourGuide.</p>

48

<p>Michigan does get nearly all of the top fifteen percent of MI high schools. At my high school, no one turned down UM for MSU (except for one kid who is a music ed major, and UM's ed. dept isn't that great)</p>

49

<p>Drew's on the right track, but I've known some brilliant people who chose MSU over U of M. Some do it for MSU's excellent honors colleges, and some do it just because in Michigan the whole prestige thing is generally not that important. I saw a supplement to the weekend Detroit News/Free Press last week about top high school honor students and where they're going to college next year. One kid had a 4.0 GPA and was an all-state baseball player (pitcher). And he was going to go to U of Evansville. If that same kid was graduating from a high school in NY, NJ, or New England, he'd probably be flipping a coin to decide between Williams and Princeton.</p>

<p>P.S. Quincy, I just want to make sure you know that when I said Indiana seemed to me more "intellectual" than MSU, I meant intellectual as opposed to practical, not intellectual as opposed to stupid.</p>

50

<p>Point understood, TourGuide. I've never been to Bloomington, so I can't comment on the "atmosphere" there, other than by 2nd-hand knowledge, which I’ll avoid. All I'm saying is that, yes, MSU was born of agriculture and mechanic arts (and lots of hard sciences) so, obviously, there's a 'practical' if you will element. But read your MSU history, many great scientific minds taught and studied there throughout its history leavening the atmosphere there -- it was always a cut above the typical land grant/A & M type school in balancing the practical w/ the liberal/theoretical studies. Purdue, a very high-quality tech school, is more typically Midwestern conservative in that sense. It also is why MSU blossomed in the arts much more than a typical land grant school. It has a "softer" side; East Lansing is a very liberal town compared to most -- not Ann Arbor, of course -- but compared to typical land grant or other flagship college towns (it’s a major Democratic stronghold in the generally conservative Mid-Michigan area)... The school itself defies easy labels although there are plenty of people who try to give it one.</p>

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<p>Quincy, I really recommend you visit IU/Bloomington. Go there for a BBall weekend sometime and take the opportunity to walk around the campus and the town. Only then will you know what Tourguide is saying. MSU is definitely one of the top 25 state universities in the nation. I consider Indiana slightly better academically, but overall, they are definitely peers. However, their atmospheres couldn't be more different.</p>

52

<p>I've never said the atmospheres were the same. Colleges are like people, no 2 are exactly the same. I'd love to visit IUB, maybe the next time business takes me to Indianapolis I can sneak over there for what, I’m sure, would be a thoroughly enjoyable afternoon. But even not having gone there, I know enough people who have and have commented about it. I understand Bloomington's a liberal bastion in a conservative area. It's obviously got a lot going for it, academically (business, languages, psych, journalism [a major strength for both schools] and I’m sure many others) and physically, with its awesome campus beauty. </p>

<p>But Alexandre, I don't know how you could judge one being "better academically" over the other -- I never claimed MSU was "better" than IUB. It's really difficult to assess such when such large, complex institutions have many strengths and (relative) weaknesses. Historically, they are very different. IUB does not have a technical component (engineering) as Indiana, like some states, concentrate all such programs at their land grant school, Purdue in this case. My only point is that MSU gets an unfair shake cause it's always pigeon-holed as a typical land grant school, meaning (in most people's minds) a practical, conservative atmosphere with a general lack in intellectual/artistic pursuits. And it's particularly ironic when people such as TourGuide cite IUB's music school as an example. Everybody knows IUB's music school is among the best in the land -- probably THE best at a public university. It is ironic because MSU's highly underrated music program is not all that far behind IU's on many levels but -- I think, anyway -- is invisible to people because of the cognitive dissonance these individuals avoid by not recognizing a land grant school -- THE land grant school -- can have such a quality non-technical program. The same holds true for the many other non-tech/liberal artsy programs, which I site above, as well.</p>