embarassing/infuriating situation (c/p)

Parents Forum
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<p>FWIW - First of all, by c/p I meant “cross-post” (with the SAT prep section). Sorry for the confusion.</p>

<p>Second, my son has Tourette’s and recently been assessed for executive functioning problems and ADD which often accompany TS but are not often diagnosed until school work becomes much more difficult and organizational skills are taxed. His brain works differently than mine, I have accepted that and I appreciate the many benefits and talents it has endowed him with, as well.</p>

<p>Third, we have begun a regimen that includes behavioral end-points (e.g., making flash cards, completing practice sections with highlighting, etc.) to ensure that he stays focused and honest. Some sections take 30 minutes, some take 1.5 hours (with breaks), and then there are the cards he is to carry with him and over which he is quizzed each night.</p>

<p>Fourth, gas money for his truck is contingent on his behavior and effort, NOT his scores. It has been made clear from the start that we are concerned most with effort and self-improvement, not scores (although he is also aware that a top score will open more doors). It was his behavior I was infuriated over NOT the relatively poorer score he might now obtain, that prompted my original post.</p>

<p>Because I do not teach over the summer, designing a workable schedule for him has become my part-time job. I am not “torturing” him or making him work any harder than I am working. In fact, I likely spend more hours researching potential learning strategies that I believe may work for his cognitive approach and strengths/weaknesses, than he actually spends working on them. Because he is not your “average” kid, I have to be all the more creative in my approach. I do not expect him to gleefully do this research himself because I know my son and much like the kid from the book “Crazy U”, I know that isn’t going to happen.</p>

<p>Bottom line - we have developed a 12 week plan (off at camp for a few weeks) that I am not going to mess with at this point for PSAT prep. What will be will be. After we see how he does and what areas of weakness remain, I will re-evaluate, sort back through the numerous resources I have amassed, and design an SAT prep program for him.</p>

<p>Some of you clearly see this to be cruel and unusual punishment from a shrew of a Tiger mom. Thankfully, we live in a country where you are free to express your views and those who agree with you are comforted in the validation you provide.</p>

<p>For those of you who view this form of parenting as more in-line with your personal views, I wish to thank you for your support and offers of assistance. Right now, effort and attitude have been good.</p>

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<p>It’s great that you are seriously considering PSAT for your DS. I put my son through a regiment of PSAT during the Sophomore year summer and the results were very good. He graduated this year and was NMF. This really opened up many doors. During the summer holidays, if he does not have a full time job, set the expectations to set aside at least three – four hours of work a day. This is what we did with him. Since PSAT is really SAT without essay part, start with a book and ask the following. There are only about five or so test preparation books in the market for SAT. Find books tha has many tests in it:</p>

<p>1) For each book read, understand and work through the prep section of the book. Work through all the examples, even if he knows it. </p>

<p>2) Create a vocab card stack, we used a simple cards with words on one side and the meaning on the other side. Ask him to prepare the card and ensure that he goes through the card every day and until he gets it all memorized. He will have to add new words as he comes across. It’s not only great to have this vocabulary for SAT purposes, but also will help him in the long run. He will have to collect these words from each books he reads. Almost all books has vocab list as part of their prep sections. This is the most boring part of the prep. But has to do it!</p>

<p>3) Ask him to take each test in the mode of actual test. Meaning start first thing in the morning after a good night sleep and a good breakfast. Let him score it after he has done. He can skip the essay part if he wants to. But keep the essay aside for later SAT preparation. Provide an atmosphere at home that is without distraction when he is taking the test. Cross check the scores/answers until you get comfortable with him scoring it himself. Tabulate the scores with dates in an excel sheet to track his performances. Ask him to go over the test and identify the weak areas. Ask him to go over the answers and expiations even if he knows/got it correct. </p>

<p>4) Continue the process for each book. </p>

<p>5) Go over the .xls sheets with his grade trend, identify any serious gaps. </p>

<p>6) Encourage him, be with him in the process, and be proud of his accomplishments. Celebrate any small success and make a bid deal of it. </p>

<p>7) Set a clear target score with a timeline and establish strategies to get there. This will help him not only short-term with his SAT preparation but also his life, esp when it comes goal setting. </p>

<p>8) In August, Princeton Review, or similar prep services, will have a pre test assessment for PSAT. Find out from the local centers about the test dates etc., Enroll him on the test. They will test him and grade him. This score will be a real indication of where he will be! I found these tests are about 10 points (PSAT) below what he will score. </p>

<p>9) Finally be very involved in the process. </p>

<p>10) Ask him to continue to prep for the SAT after PSAT. Take SAT in December. If he likes the scores stop. If he does not then he can take it again in may-june or summer. But if he does well. He will have to take the SATIIs in may. </p>

<p>11) Good luck. This is truly the time to persevere! Hang in there! As a national merit scholar finalist, I can assure you that it opens up many many doors. Below are some of the books that I found very interesting that my ds to read. Local library should have all these books. </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Disappearing-Spoon-Madness-Periodic-Elements/dp/0316051640[/url]”>http://www.amazon.com/Disappearing-Spoon-Madness-Periodic-Elements/dp/0316051640&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Man-Who-Knew-Infinity-Ramanujan/dp/0671750615[/url]”>http://www.amazon.com/Man-Who-Knew-Infinity-Ramanujan/dp/0671750615&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Rocket-Boys-Coalwood-Homer-Hickam/dp/0385333218[/url]”>http://www.amazon.com/Rocket-Boys-Coalwood-Homer-Hickam/dp/0385333218&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Fermats-Enigma-Greatest-Mathematical-Problem/dp/0385493622[/url]”>http://www.amazon.com/Fermats-Enigma-Greatest-Mathematical-Problem/dp/0385493622&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Big-Bang-Origin-Universe-P-S/dp/0007162219/ref=pd_sim_b_4[/url]”>http://www.amazon.com/Big-Bang-Origin-Universe-P-S/dp/0007162219/ref=pd_sim_b_4&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>OP- glad you vented and are getting a lot of feedback. It may have helped to explain some of your son’s difficulties in the first post.</p>

<p>To all- those that need to spend a lot of hours studying/prepping to get their best PSAT/SAT et al scores- your kids are not in the same league as those like mine who barely do one practice test and are NMFs. How did these kids get their scores?- by spending the time reading and absorbing knowledge in school, using their native intelligence and curiosity.</p>

<p>Regarding lying. Been there, done that, with HS son regarding internet sites at a similar age. Kids in that age group will hide things from parents. They show inventiveness in trying to meet your expectations without doing the work as well. Glad you cleared the air with him. Time to relax and accept the kid you have. btw- some of my college friends who weren’t NMS achieved more academically than those of us who were- eg MS or MD versus PhD. Also- most students at the elite colleges will NOT be NMFs. Use your knowledge of psychology and review how teens’ brains function.</p>

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<p>Yeah, why bother to work hard and do your best when you’ll never be in the same LEAGUE as the elite, anyway?</p>

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<p>Oh, dear, sorghum’s showing that Ivy LEAGUE jealousy. They are just 8 excellent schools, there are many others, get over your jealousy already.</p>

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<p>That was weird, Pizzagirl.</p>

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<p>The point is wasting so much time trying to do well on a test instead of just spending the time increasing the knowledge base. Working hard at something with more rewards than just a test score is smarter. Those students deserve the fruits of their labors and will be better prepared to handle any college than those who merely cram for a test. btw- top flagship public is where we and more NMFs end up- not the Ivies. Not all excellent students even want the Ivies…</p>

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<p>I have to say that this describes my kid too. He never did any prep, other than a practice test. He scored 230+ on the PSAT and was a state Presidential Scholar finalist (Or semi-finalist, I forget what they call it. Anyway, one of the final 5.) He took the SAT twice–his choice, but he still didn’t prep for the second one so it was a waste, IMHO–and scored 800 on the CR portion both times. Why? Well, the fact that he is the kind of kid who chose to read War and Peace in 7th grade probably had something to do with it. :)</p>

<p>While prepping for the test undoubtedly does some kids some good, when it comes to the CR section in particular I don’t think it is realistic to think that you can make up for 12+ years of reading in a single summer of cramming. Nor, as wis75 suggests, is that necessarily the most productive and rewarding use of the kid’s time.</p>

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<p>I’m going to disagree to the point that there are shades of grey. There is test prep where your kid learns to navigate the test if this doesn’t come naturally to them, and then there is actual content. My son’s PSAT was quite good, and in line with other standardized tests, grades, and ability in Math and Written sections. The CR score however sent up a huge red flag. It wasn’t low, it was just way out of line with everything else. By looking at questions he missed we were able to determine he understood the content (vocabulary, etc.) but the questions were presented in a way that just didn’t make sense to him. His prep didn’t involve ‘direct hits’ or trying to make up for years of reading (that he had been doing) it was moderate work familiarizing himself with the questions and how they were being presented. Once he learned the collegboard lingo he was fine and his score reflected his ability. This didn’t take months, or hours a day, but it also didn’t come naturally. </p>

<p>I think it’s every parents responsibility to review the PSAT and understand what problems your student is missing and why if you have concerns with their initial score. I agree that it is unreasonable to expect years of content to be learned in months. You’ll find I stated this in an earlier post on this thread. Many kids benefit from test strategy however, and there is nothing wrong with that.</p>

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<p>Congratulations to CC parents whose kids score 230+ on the PSAT without taking a single practice test. Your kids are true geniuses and you must be so proud. </p>

<p>However, for those kids who are not in that 99.99+% league, and are merely “well-above-average” (97-99%)–and apparently have significantly less native intelligence and curiosity;)-- it most certainly is worth it to spend time–even a lot of time–prepping for the PSAT for the chance of pushing their scores over their state cutoffs. If they are in need of scholarships and are looking at schools that offer big ones, prepping can be worth $100,000+ over fours years at some schools. (How about getting paid $1000/hr for 100 hours of prep? Doesn’t seem like a waste of time to me.) There are many more kids who regret not prepping when they miss their cutoff by a point or two than there are those who say, “Gosh, all that intense prepping that has artificially pushed my score a point over my state cutoff has unfairly placed me in a league of uber-achievers in which I could never hope to compete. Woe is me.”</p>

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<p>I’m not bragging, atomom, simply stating facts. I am more proud when my S works to achieve something than when his natural gifts enable him to knock it out of the park on a standardized test, even though he has indeed developed those gifts as a result of the way we raised him and his own inclinations. Plenty of people here have kids who have achieved better grades and more impressive college acceptances than my son.</p>

<p>Your other points are well taken. As I said above, some kids certainly benefit from prep.</p>

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<p>Don’t feel bad op. We all do what we need to do. I want my daughter to have as many open doors to walk through as possible so she is meeting with a math tutor once a week for an hour and spending another 2 hours on act prep book and math homework from the tutor. It is about 3 hours a week on top of AP Spanish and AP English mandatory summer homework. </p>

<p>I told her she can either get a job or do this. She chose studying. She has a 28 on the act and another 2 points is thousands of dollars and another 4 points is free tuition at one of our state colleges. I don’t have thousands to send her to school nor do I want her to graduate $80k in debt.</p>

<p>Of course if it were up to me she would be studying 10 hours a week, but she is 17 years old and extremely stubborn and a little lazy. Plus at some point they have to want to do it. Good luck with your son, I hope he gets a good score.</p>

<p>Edit, I totally agree with,the above poster who said cramming doesn’t make up for a lifetime of little reading. I am certain my daughter scores high in reading because she has been a voracious reader since she was a little girl. Sometimes I felt like she was swallowing books and I spent ridiculous sums of money at many bookstores…but I don’t regret it now!</p>

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<p>Mspearl - Thanks for your words. </p>

<p>It would be nice, I’m sure, to have one of those kids who score in the 99th%-ile on standardized tests without prep. But I don’t have one of those kids. I have a kid whose brain is wired differently than 99% of other people. Hence, he will need to study and prep more. Fortunately, he is inherently relatively intelligent and grasps concepts pretty quickly, so I anticipate prepping will be beneficial. Unfortunately, he is also inherently Mr. Minimal Effort because he does get by pretty well on sheer talent. </p>

<p>So, for now, we are relying on “gas money bribing”, because, like it or not, 4 ACT points and/or 150 SAT points WILL make a huge difference.</p>

<p>I can already see a great college app essay in the works though to accent what may not be 99th %ile test scores. He is an awesome cage fighter who can tap out Marines twice his age, get rounds and rounds of applause at open mic nights, and is a frequently in-demand print and commercial model. I DO love that kid on the couch!</p>

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<p>Congratulations. Truly–I mean it. Brag away. My comments are more directed at wis, whose last 2 posts I find insulting. </p>

<p>I’m proud if my kids achieve their goals by working hard for them–even if those goals include prepping to reach a certain test score. That a genius-kid’s parent thinks that kids who make NMSF after prepping are “not in the same league,” are lacking “native intelligence and curiosity” and will be “unprepared for college” and don’t “deserve the fruits of their labors” ??? Outrageous. (Are you joking? Or maybe you’re not a native speaker?)</p>

<p>A lot of so-called unprepared, undeserving, minor-league kids who “merely crammed for a test” :wink: (Would you believe they took AP’s, had high GPA’s and excelled in other EC’s, too?) will happily collect those $100K+ scholarships. Prepping can have a bigger reward than any other HS activity I can think of. Prepping is smart.</p>

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<p>I’m proud if my kids achieve their goals by working hard for them–even if those goals include prepping to reach a certain test score.</p>

<p>atomom - So what makes you think that prepping is hard work compared to being a diligent student for 16 or 17 years? Six weeks (or whatever) of cramming vs. a decade plus of curiosity and effort? If a kid doesn’t prep and still scores well, then of course he must be a “native genius?” </p>

<p>Well, maybe a few of them are. But most of them are just authentic kids who have been working hard - not simply cramming for the test.</p>

<p>Despite what I read here, I would still like to believe that only a small minority of crazy kids and aggro parents are actually prepping for SATs and PSATs.</p>

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<p>Mis: I do agree with you to an extent. You absolutely cannot replace a lifetime of learning with major test prep. I have no faith in sat classes and would never pay thousands of dollars for something like that. In my daughters case, she needs some extra help with math. She is a 4.0 student who doesn’t really need to study that much but for some reason when she took the sat she bombed the math. So we got her a $10/hour math tutor.
She took the sat again and math score only came up 20 points. She took the act in June and scored a 24 in math. I know that is not stellar or genius level like most kids on here but it is actually above average. </p>

<p>And I absolutely think the tutor had something to do with it along with the act being more content based and not as she describes it “tricky like the sat math.” And maybe all the tutor did was give her confidence and help her brush up on basics that have trouble sticking in her very verbal brain. Now the reading? She scored a 32 on the act and a 750 on the sat. She didn’t study at all for the reading - she just has it. But that does not mean studying won’t help other people. Especially kids whose learning processses are atypical like the op’s son.</p>

<p>Perhaps what prepping does for many kids is give them confidence and familiarity with the test - what it looks like etc… I do not think parents are “crazy” for having their kids study. Everyone is different and what may work for you may not work for someone else.</p>

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<p>Prep & taking practice actual SATs does indeed give familiarity with the test & can help with pacing so that the kid doesn’t end up running out of time & panicking at the end of the test when time is running out.</p>

<p>Folks/kids need to know themselves and do what works & is reasonable for them. If they have the willpower to self-study, that can work just fine. For kids who do better in a group setting, a review course (these can cost a few hundred) can be a useful thing. There is nothing that replaces a lifetime of learning but familiarity can help the kid do as well as s/he is going to and won’t be as easily “tricked.”</p>

<p>My S self-studied for the SAT, ACT, GRE, LSAT. He has always tested well & examining his errors on practice exams realized that he mostly makes careless errors. He was a NMF & has always been satisfied with his test scores on these types of exams. He does feel that using a review book & practicing DOES help but has never wanted or consented to taking a formal review course.</p>

<p>We know others who have taken review courses & found them to be varying degrees of helpful, depending on the individual & the course.</p>

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<p>Thank you MisterK for stating so succinctly what is really important for college and life preparation. I had both a NMF and a non-NMF who both did not prep for PSATs. It would never cross my mind to try to make up with cramming for 16 years worth of intellectual knowledge. It is no credit to me that I have a NMS, an no lack of parenting that I have one that is not. They have become the people that they are over the years an neither take pride or shame based on their NMF status. It is of little benefit outside of college admission. As I mentioned previously, the full ride scholarships given to NMFs are not good fits for many of those kids, including my D, and her NMF status had no bearing on the full ride scholarship she really wanted (was a runner-up) that I am sure went to several non-NMF kids.</p>

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<p>Prepping to get a PSAT score generating NMSemiF status is a waste of time. Only 1/3 of NMFs even get any money- and I doubt the student who needed all of that prep time has the same other credentials as most who did receive money. A 2400 on the SAT will not guarantee scholarships- even with good ECs and grades. It is a good idea to do practice tests, but a PSAT score is a mere blip on the record in comparison to accepting your child as bright et al and letting them enjoy learning instead of putting pressure on them to meet that goal.</p>

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<p>Well, there are people in this thread who apparently are targeting schools where it does make a significant financial difference. </p>

<p>That wasn’t the case for us, or for the kids in my S’s class who were also NMFs. In fact, the school that gave S a NMS–something like $2,000–reduced his need-based FA by that amount. At that school, only kids who did not have need-based awards benefited from NMSs. (And since their need-based assessment left us with an EFC equal to our entire annual income at that point in time, it didn’t do a whole lot of good! :slight_smile: )</p>