<p>Wow, why to spend an eye blink on PSAT? Who cares? Just save you worries for real stuff.<br>
D. has graduated from college Summa Cum Laude (Phi Betta Kappa) and going to Med. school in 5 days, had awesome choices. She was not any NMF or NMSF. She was on full tuition Merit scholarship at UG, based on her GPA and ACT. She continued having straight A’s in college and got great MCAT score. We never thought that PSAT has any significance. Boy, we were so right!! She has not prep. for PSAT, did not spend 2 minutes, very happy that she did not waste her time.</p>
<p>“Wow, why to spend an eye blink on PSAT? Who cares?”
Umm how about parents who want to save $85,000 + on college tuition?
It must be nice for some people to be able to write great big tuition checks without blinking, but not all are so fortunate…</p>
<p>because DS did do a little prepping during the summer B4 his Jr year, he did make the NMF cut off and did therefore qualify for at least a 1/2 tuition scholarship at USC. He ended receiving a full tuition scholarship there, graduated cum laude and will be starting his PHD at Cal Tech with a full fellowship in Sept. Would all this have happened without NMF status? Who knows. But given the choice, spending a few hundred dollars for about 10 hrs of prep time during the summer for no college tuition payments seems like a great ROI, imho.</p>
<p>Late getting back to this. . .Prepping alone can’t make someone an NMF --or win scholarships based on high ACT or SAT scores, but if your kid is looking for score/grade based scholarships, it would be foolish not to prep. (Miami congrats to your D on all her accomplishments–did she prep for the ACT on which her scholarship was based?)<br>
At quite a few schools a 2400 SAT (or even a 2100 or a 32ACT) WILL guarantee scholarships. The 2/3 of NMF’s who receive no money have chosen to go to schools (often top schools) that offer no merit scholarships. Perhaps they had no financial need. Perhaps they were happy with the need-based aid they were offered. But they all had a choice of taking a merit scholarship at other schools if they wanted to. Actually, I believe that the 2/3 of NMF’s who get no merit scholarships are those with the higher credentials. They are more likely to go to top schools that don’t offer scholarships, and less likely to consider lower-ranked schools that offer the biggest $. </p>
<p>What makes anyone think that there are students who did no work for 11 years of school–then spent 6 weeks prepping and SHAZAM! turned out 220 PSAT? Doesn’t happen. The myth of some undeserving below average students sneaking into NMF status by intense prepping alone–is just that, a myth. A student needs an excellent academic record/GPA/recommendation/essay to make NMF–it is not just scores alone.</p>
<p>Here is a situation where prep is useful: An excellent student who is looking for merit scholarships (not everyone is. . .) and has a history of scoring well (upper 90s) on standardized tests, takes the PSAT sophomore year and scores just a few points below his/her state cutoff. Would it be smart for that student to get a prep book/take practice tests to increase his/her chances of passing the cutoff–or should he/she just walk into the test junior year and “see what happens?”
What makes anyone (wis?) think that students at 97-99.0% (these are the students who make NMSF by prepping) have credentials that are significantly lower than those at 99.9+%? ALL of these students did a lot of reading and study in and out of class over the years to make it into the top 2-3%. Show me one NMF (or winner of SAT/ACT score-based scholarships) who has focused ONLY on test prep. If students prep and don’t make their goals, at least they’ll know that they gave it their all. They won’t be wondering, “What if. . .”</p>
<p>I think I’ve been misunderstood. Mr. K–I never said prepping is hard work compared to anything. Why would you assume a student who preps isn’t just as diligent or curious or “authentic” as one who doesn’t? I don’t believe that prepping alone can yield a high score. My point is that the students who make it–who happen to prep beforehand–have also been hardworking, excellent, and diligent students throughout their school years. Prepping is not that hard compared to the boatload of AP classes these students are taking. Prepping takes time and self discipline, and that adds to the workload. Prepping is not a significant learning experience, but for some students, it might have the biggest payoff.
Again, if your kid makes it with no prep, congratulations. My kids need to prep. That doesn’t equate them with steroid users, prove they’ve been slackers for 11 years, or show they don’t have the credentials. It just means that if they took the test with no prep, they might score a percentage or two below your kid, and would probably miss the cutoff. FWIW, a kid who makes 230+ with no prep, is very likely, a genius. That is a compliment. And that doesn’t mean he/she isn’t a hard-working genius. A kid who makes their cutoff with prep could very likely be called “gifted.” Kids who just miss the cutoff may also be “gifted.” But ALL of them are hardworking, top students, with no significant differences between their GPA’s and other credentials.</p>
<p>Prepping vs. tutors–A general math or English tutor can’t help a student raise his/her PSAT/SAT/ACT scores in the same way that using a prep book and taking practice tests can. The test includes specific math and grammar concepts, specific types of questions, specific instructions for each section, even specific types of misleading wrong answers, etc. Getting very familiar with the test you’re about to take is the best strategy for raising scores.</p>
<p>atomom… good posts by you, hopefully people read them and comprehend what you’re saying. The PSAT can be worth far more than the SAT when it comes to merit money, getting NMF status can guarantee great aid at some schools… </p>
<p>Unfortunately depending on what state you live it PSAT score thresholds can be quite high… in Mass it was 223 this year. Some states as low as a 206 can get you NMSF status. Quite a spread there and it’s all due to the way the PSAT sponser determines the cutoff… they want 1% of HS students in each state to be NMSF, but in some states only 25% take psat (some states are ACT centric) so really they pick the top 4% of test takers to be NMSF. So a kid with a 206 PSAT get free tuition at for example Northeastern while a 222 from MA doesn’t (may get a merit scholarship based on SATs but not near full tuition). This is just plain wrong in my opinion… I bet the schools themselves don’t realize this scoring scheme is unfair. Different cutoffs for each state means there’s nothing “National” about NMSF award.</p>
<p>I think atomom really has the right take on things. If your son/daughter has been scoring in the high 90’s percentile-wise on standardized tests, a bit of prepping for the PSAT can have very big pay-offs, and will not result in “overplacement.” This is the group that can be most helped by understanding the PSAT hobby-horses, especially in writing: parallelism (they are sticklers for that), illogical comparisons, misplaced modifiers, subject/verb agreement in number, correct use of person, etc.</p>
<p>The PSAT is not as “forgiving” of small numbers of mistakes as the SAT is–and even that is not so forgiving. If you look at the scoring sheets for the PSAT, you will find that in many years, there are some score ranges where a single question (out of about 125 questions, total) can shift the score by 4 points out of 240.</p>
<p>FooMonChew makes a valid point about the differences in cut-offs by state. You can look up the cut-offs (figured out by CC posters) on the SAT, ACT, etc. forum each year. The cut-offs usually do not shift by more than a point or two from year to year, although I have seen shifts of 3 points in some cases.</p>
<p>We live in a state where the differential between the minimum to be commended and the cut-off for NMSF is not so great as in Massachusetts. I have been meaning to suggest to the school board that there should be a policy of reduced homework load for juniors during the early part of PSAT week. I think the top local students are generally overworked, and don’t get sufficient sleep. Although I have not heard of anyone falling asleep during the PSAT, some students in our district have fallen asleep during the AIME (math competition). </p>
<p>Given the scoring methodology on the PSAT, some of our commended students could have been NMSF’s if they had answered a single additional question correctly. Actually, of course, this could easily happen to students in other states (even in Massachusetts). </p>
<p>A student who has been scoring in the 70th-80th percentile might possibly reach NMSF status with a great deal of prep effort directed specifically at the PSAT. If any student, no matter what the score, spends time on PSAT prep and does not make the NMSF cut-off, that time will still very likely translate into a higher SAT score, since the tests are not that dissimilar. Also, at some colleges, there may be financial benefits of being a Commended Scholar, even if the student doesn’t make NMSF. </p>
<p>Personally, I think several hours per day of prep would be overkill–20 minutes or half an hour a day, 3 or 4 times a week, would probably yield about the same benefit.</p>
<p>I think atomom sums it all up well in #103 (Although I don’t think my 230+ with no prep kid is a genius! 
)</p>
<p>menloparkmom,
"“Wow, why to spend an eye blink on PSAT? Who cares?”
Umm how about parents who want to save $85,000 + on college tuition?
It must be nice for some people to be able to write great big tuition checks without blinking, but not all are so fortunate…</p>
<p>-If you read my whole post #101, and not just first sentence, I have mentioned that we did not pay a dime in tuition for UG because of Merit awards that even covered part of living expenses. PSAT is not what your kid need to waste his/her time on, just trust me.</p>
<p>Maybe you are asking too much of your son ? I have 4 kids 19 -31 ,including one at Harvard and 1 who tried to make an easy 20k by moving a package across China and spent 8 months in a detention center ( jail ) . Perhaps he did it to do what HE thinks you want -impossibly high scores .</p>
<p>Prepping did help my kid. She went from 190(Soph) to 220(Junior). All the kids that I know are prepping for the SAT except my daughter who is off doing her summer program.</p>
<p>Thanks DrGoogle. My S’s soph score was about the same as your D’s (a little lower). I would love to have him break 200 on the PSAT and still have another few months to prep for the real thing! My S will be off doing his summer program in a couple of weeks, too. Oh well, at least they’ll be well-rounded! :o)</p>
<p>I did give her a little bribe. Score 2300($250), 2350($350) and for every ten point above she gets a $50 increment up to $500. Her friend said she was cheated. They had to pay $3000-$5000 for prep class and they only managed to get to 2100+. 
She did do about 2 tests per day, so more than 2 hours. Tiger mom I am. ;)</p>
<p>I LOVE that idea!!! The S will do anything for gas money!</p>
<p>Dr Google - both my kids increased their PSAT scores by at least that much without prep. It’s impossible to say that prep helped.</p>
<p>If you’re looking for score/GPA-based scholarships, even if you miss the NMSF cutoff for the PSAT, there are still great scholarships out there for your SAT or ACT scores. It is nice to have the NM honor, but other scores/grades can get you significant merit aid at a lot of schools. This happened to my D a few years ago–she was so disappointed to miss the cutoff by a few points, but did significantly better on the SAT, which helped her get about $70K in scholarships. </p>
<p>Again, it’s not a waste of time to prep for PSAT/SAT/ACT–whichever test you need for the scholarship you’re looking at. The test that’s important to you/your kid might not be important to others.</p>
<p>GTalum, it’s great that you have smart kids. I know mine would have scored around 2100+ if she did not prep. Basically by prepping, she was familiar with the test preps and increased her math scores.
For my second kid, I won’t worry too much about making NMSF cutoff. We will be full pay and none of the school that she’s interested in offers that much merit aid.</p>
<p>My S is inherently intelligent and inherently Mr. Minimal Effort. Since I haven’t heard of anyone LOSING points over prepping, I figure he may pick up, at minimum, some additional studying skills and information he might not have learned otherwise. I just don’t see a real downside of prepping. If I shoot a few dollars to get him to do so, I don’t care. Others may see that as bribing, but I see a fine line between paying him to do the work I want him to do (including staining the fence) and his getting a paycheck for doing the work the boss wants him to do one day.</p>
<p>Will I ever KNOW for CERTAIN that the prepping helped raise his score over the simple passage of time and school coursework? Of course not. Can’t do an A-B-A design on my kid. But, since, as I said, I don’t think it’ll hurt, I will continue to have him prep up until he takes his last standardized test!</p>
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<p>I didn’t claim to have smart kids. One scores well in academic work and test, but she has given A plus effort her whole life and her PSATs reflect that. The other is another Mr. Minimal Effort. In either case, I doubt prep would have changed a thing in their scores as Mr. Minimal Effort had not yet figured out the study skills necessary for effective prep.</p>
<p>To help out the lack of tests, don’t let him look at the answers. Hide them from him or something. Mark all the wrongs ones for him and don’t let him move in until he figured out the answer to every question. It helped me a lot.</p>
<p>What bothers me most about prepping is that it is ineffective use of time. There are much better uses of the summer than spending hours every day grinding through prep material. If you want your son to do better, have him read deeply and widely, and with a dictionary at hand. Have him review whatever math level is appropriate, but don’t force him to do hundreds of problems over and over.
A small amount of prep is fine, but it seems that you want to do much more.</p>
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<p>Perhaps, perhaps!</p>
<p>Isn’t a given that the kids who might benefit the most from reading deeply and widely are often the same who find … reading atrociously boring? Reviewing math when appropriate? What does that really mean? Do you mean reviewing math through the same atrocious books that fail so many in K-12? Do you really think it is effective to review generic and random math concepts to increase the SAT or ACT score? </p>
<p>Here is a different reality. For most people, it is too late to become an avid reader. And if one discovers the joy of reading, it better be for something else than for the SAT! As far as covering math, one does NOT study for the SAT by reviewing math concepts OUTSIDE the SAT context, any more than one should memorize the encyclopedia. </p>
<p>No matter how one slices it, there are people who do well on the SAT because of abilities and aptuitude. Others do well because they have participated in academic competitions. Most people do not fall into such categories. For most, a well-designed plan of practice is a VERY good approach, as it is cheap and … effective. For a number of people, the assistance of a private tutor represents the best balance between cost and results.</p>
<p>Last not least, there is no reason why preparing for the SAT has to be an abject chore.</p>